Wales: Current Covid rules illogical

[John Luxton]

Some observations whilst spending a few days in Wales for FWHR Bygones Weekend.

When visiting the FWHR for longer than a day I stay at Portmeirion which has two hotels and several shops on site.

Since my last stay the hotel has returned to 100% pre Covid normality. The bubble shelters located on the lawn in early summer have gone. The restaurant is back to the usual number of tables, the transparent screens between tables also gone.

Virtually all of the staff are unmasked. Screens on reception and bar have now gone as well.

The buffet part of breakfast has been reinstated. Thus people can mix and mingle around bar and breakfast buffet unrestricted / unmasked / undistanced.

However, in the shops on the same site which are far less busy than the restaurant and the bar one has to wear a mask!

The FWHR are still running pre-booked only trains – though that way they get round the face mask rule which I dare say would come into play if they ran a normal service.

Though I have been against many of the Covid rules since day one as they were in my opinion an over reaction by the politicians, the situation which now prevails in Wales in retail and public transport is just crazy irrespective of the side of the Covid measures argument you stand.

Shops, trains and buses are generally much less busier than bars / restaurants / hotels which often have many more people in close proximity often for some hours rather than minutes.

Does anyone know why, other than trying to out do Westminster why the Senedd is perpetuating this nonsense?

Just seems completely illogical.

John

 

[yorkie]

It's political. People like Drakeford are keen to say that the Conservatives got it wrong and they can do a better set of measures.

It's all about virtue signalling and some of the measures are about imposing an authoritarian stance.

It's absolutely not about being logical!

 

[John Luxton]

It's political. People like Drakeford are keen to say that the Conservatives got it wrong and they can do a better set of measures.

It's all about virtue signalling and some of the measures are about imposing an authoritarian stance.

It's absolutely not about being logical!

Yes that clearly is the reason.

I just don't see how individuals and businesses don't see what is going on and force change by non compliance.

 

[yorkie]

Very difficult for businesses to do that unfortunately.

 

[John Luxton]

Very difficult for businesses to do that unfortunately.

I agree individually but should not trade associations make a stand?

Once many refuse the system falls apart.

Reflecting on past 18 months on the UK as a whole individuals and businesses never realised the power they had in overturning the more Draconian and illogical measures.

Some individual ones tried and were easily picked off but mass disobedience could have ended C19 restrictions sooner. Police and council enforcers can only be in a few places at once.

Personally I think the government realised the danger they could lose control. It wasn't just the availability of the vaccine which led to a losening of the rules but a realisation more and more, even a few MPs were on the verge of becoming rebellious. Trouble was there wasn't enough MPs.

 

[bramling]

Very difficult for businesses to do that unfortunately.

Individuals can though. I'd say we aren't far from that point with masks on TFL. I don't know how much longer Khan can keep that one up when despite a recent push compliance remains stubbornly at 50% or less, and much less at certain times.

 

[yorkie]

Indeed, I hope more businesses, trade associations and individuals do all they can to push back. I certainly do.

 

[seagull]

Am pleased to say that my complete and total non-wearing of a mask in Wales in recent weeks has gone 100% unchallenged anywhere. Leading me to believe that nobody very much is keen on enforcing the wearing thereof. There is however still a fairly high compliance rate.
In addition, the social distancing, while signposted frequently, seems to be halfhearted at best and also not enforced.

 

[jumble]

Individuals can though. I'd say we aren't far from that point with masks on TFL. I don't know how much longer Khan can keep that one up when despite a recent push compliance remains stubbornly at 50% or less, and much less at certain times.

The push is not being taken very seriousiouly by the enforcement people
It does seem like the officers are being split so no more congregations of 7 but in 3 or 4s
However they do not seem to be challenging any more people than before
At least the poster at Pinner Station saying one can be fined for non mask compliance is gone

 

[Dai Corner]

I haven't seen any enforcement of mask-wearing on TfW trains or at stations lately, though a pair of PCSOs did so on a GWR train I caught from Cardiff to Bridgend the other day. I know they were there solely/primarily for that purpose as they had a box of masks and handed them out to any passengers who said they didn't have one.

Quite frankly, it's ridiculous that I don't have to wear a mask to sit in a noisy, crowded pub all night shouting to make myself heard but have to don one to pop into a deserted shop for a pint of milk paid for at a self-checkout on my way home.

As others have said, it seems to be about being slightly different to the rest of Britain.

 

[Butts]

Am pleased to say that my complete and total non-wearing of a mask in Wales in recent weeks has gone 100% unchallenged anywhere. Leading me to believe that nobody very much is keen on enforcing the wearing thereof. There is however still a fairly high compliance rate.
In addition, the social distancing, while signposted frequently, seems to be halfhearted at best and also not enforced.

If you'd flown into Cardiff both the plane and airport would have been masked up - the last redoubt of maskivists !!

I'm in Jersey at the moment and the only thing people still have to wear masks is on Buses and in The Airport - insane really

 

[island]

I agree individually but should not trade associations make a stand?

Once many refuse the system falls apart.

Unfortunately businesses cannot afford to do this as they risk being prosecuted and closed-down.

 

[bramling]

The push is not being taken very seriousiouly by the enforcement people
It does seem like the officers are being split so no more congregations of 7 but in 3 or 4s
However they do not seem to be challenging any more people than before
At least the poster at Pinner Station saying one can be fined for non mask compliance is gone

I get the impression the enforcement people have given up. Likewise I’ve not seen anyone challenged, instead they simply stand around chatting.

I suspect they never signed up for a job going round challenging people who, by Khan’s definition, are a serious biological health hazard. And with a considerable number of people emboldened enough not to wear a mask, they must be very aware they’re on a loser.

They’re being used as they’re all Khan has.

 

[John Luxton]

Unfortunately businesses cannot afford to do this as they risk being prosecuted and closed-down.

Oh I appreciate that but enmass refusal would run the authorities ragged and colg up the courts that much sheer weight of numbers would bring it down especially if backed by trade bodies.

 

[Furryanimal]

Illogical is putting it lightly.
Since early August I have attended rugby every Saturday.Not a mask in sight amongst the spectators-semi pro level of rugby.
Been in pubs and cafes....mask wearing pretty much non existent but some staff are and others aren’t.
Mask wearing definitely decreasing on trains and buses but I await an e-mail with the rules for my concert on Tuesday
Will I need a mask and/or a vaccine passport?Who knows?

 

[Dai Corner]

Illogical is putting it lightly.
Since early August I have attended rugby every Saturday.Not a mask in sight amongst the spectators-semi pro level of rugby.
Been in pubs and cafes....mask wearing pretty much non existent but some staff are and others aren’t.
Mask wearing definitely decreasing on trains and buses but I await an e-mail with the rules for my concert on Tuesday
Will I need a mask and/or a vaccine passport?Who knows?

Depends how old you are, whether you've been fully vaccinated, whether you've had a negative test recently, how many people are going and whether it's seated, unseated, indoors or outdoors.

Covid passports: Where do I still need to use one?

Mandatory Covid passports end in Scotland, as has happened in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

www.bbc.co.uk

What is the vaccine passport plan for Wales?​

From 11 October, anyone who is aged over 16 and has been fully vaccinated in Wales or England will be able to use the NHS Covid Pass to prove their status.
It will also be available to people who have had a negative lateral flow test in the past 48 hours.
It will be needed for:

• nightclubs and comparable venues
• unseated indoor live events for more than 500 people
• unseated outdoor live events for more than 4,000 people
• any event for more than 10,000 people

 

[island]

Illogical is putting it lightly.
Since early August I have attended rugby every Saturday.Not a mask in sight amongst the spectators-semi pro level of rugby.
Been in pubs and cafes....mask wearing pretty much non existent but some staff are and others aren’t.
Mask wearing definitely decreasing on trains and buses but I await an e-mail with the rules for my concert on Tuesday
Will I need a mask and/or a vaccine passport?Who knows?

Unless I’m mistaken, masks aren’t legally required in pubs or at rugby matches, even in Wales.

 

[seagull]

I spoke too soon in my previous post. Went to a cafe today: accosted at the entrance by a female member of the Mask Gestapo demanding my wife and I put on masks. When I said I was exempt she demanded to see "the lanyard to prove it" - to which I replied that "the lanyard" to which she referred (sunflower) is not proof of exemption and is misused in that regard in any case, and no, I don't have one.
Her reply was "well, I'll just have to believe you then, come in".

You couldn't make this stuff up.

 

[John Luxton]

I spoke too soon in my previous post. Went to a cafe today: accosted at the entrance by a female member of the Mask Gestapo demanding my wife and I put on masks. When I said I was exempt she demanded to see "the lanyard to prove it" - to which I replied that "the lanyard" to which she referred (sunflower) is not proof of exemption and is misused in that regard in any case, and no, I don't have one.
Her reply was "well, I'll just have to believe you then, come in".

You couldn't make this stuff up.

Cafe is hospitality isn't it even in Wales? Spooner's Bar and Cafe at Porthmadog Harbour Station was mask free when I had a pint and sandwich this lunch time.

 

[Dai Corner]

Cafe is hospitality isn't it even in Wales? Spooner's Bar and Cafe at Porthmadog Harbour Station was mask free when I had a pint and sandwich this lunch time.

Yup. There are no longer any Welsh government requirements regarding masks in cafes, restaurants, pubs and similar establishments. Obviously they can have their own house rules if they wish.

 

[Mag_seven]

Vaccine Passports now compulsory Wales. Slowly but surely our pre 2020 freedoms are being taken from us with not a squeak of protest or resistance

Wales NHS Covid pass compulsory for large events and nightclubs

Wales' rugby game against New Zealand will be one of the first mass events where passes are required.

www.bbc.co.uk

People in Wales now need an NHS Covid pass to be able to legally attend big events or nightclubs.
They are compulsory for over-18s, and show people have either tested negative on a lateral flow test or are fully vaccinated against Covid.

 

[Dai Corner]

Vaccine Passports now compulsory Wales. Slowly but surely our pre 2020 freedoms are being taken from us with not a squeak of protest or resistance

Wales NHS Covid pass compulsory for large events and nightclubs

Wales' rugby game against New Zealand will be one of the first mass events where passes are required.

www.bbc.co.uk

This only got through Senedd because an opposition MS was unable to vote due to technical difficulties too.

Covid pass plans agreed in knife-edge Senedd vote

Senedd agrees plans for mandatory Covid passes in clubs and large events despite united opposition.

www.bbc.co.uk

Mandatory Covid passes in nightclubs and large events will be introduced in Wales as planned on 11 October after Welsh ministers won a knife-edge Senedd vote.
The measures were agreed with 28 politicians voting for and 27 voting against.
It came despite politicians in the opposition uniting against the plans.
The public will be expected to show evidence of being fully vaccinated or having a recent negative Covid test.
Conservative Vale of Clwyd Member of the Senedd (MS) Gareth Davies did not take part in the vote, with the Tories citing "technical difficulties" for what happened.
Nightclub industry representatives said it was a "shambles".
If all opposition MSs had taken part the government would have lost in a tie, with the Tories, Lib Dems and Plaid opposed to the scheme.
Health Minister Eluned Morgan told MSs not supporting the law "will be an act of gross irresponsibility", but Plaid Cymru had said it was open to exploitation.
Protesters had gathered outside the Senedd's buildings on Tuesday evening, chanting "shame on you", following the result.

 

[Bikeman78]

Am pleased to say that my complete and total non-wearing of a mask in Wales in recent weeks has gone 100% unchallenged anywhere. Leading me to believe that nobody very much is keen on enforcing the wearing thereof. There is however still a fairly high compliance rate.

Who would do the challenging? Shops have gone back to normal. No queues, no staff standing by the entrance. Inside half the staff have their mask on their chin.

At Cardiff Central there are sometimes BTP loitering. I've noticed that a lot of people have masks on trains going out of Wales but most people forget to put one on when heading in to Wales. It's all a complete farce.

Also worth mentioning that I went on a full and standing bus for the first time recently. The service was down the pan so there was a 30 minute gap in the 10 minute service. I'm not sure what the official position is. I didn't think that standing was allowed but the driver didn't care and everyone just wanted to get home.

 

[Furryanimal]

Unless I’m mistaken, masks aren’t legally required in pubs or at rugby matches, even in Wales.

Organisations can make their own rules.
After Welsh Freedom day Glamorgan County Cricket Club-who never get crowds big enough to fall under the new vaccine passport rules-insisted we still wear masks on entry and when walking around the stadium and using catering outlets.
And each day they insisted we continue to follow social distancing rules to ensure the safety of ourselves and others-even after they had been abolished.
Not required in pubs and cafes but crowds of over 10,000 will need vaccine passports.
Although the staff in my regular cafe are still wearing masks which is proving confusing for some customers!
Pretty sure the concert I am attending tomorrow does not require a vaccine passport but I’ll be getting a message from the venue later.

 

[island]

If organisations want to delay getting back to reality and normality that is of course their choice.

 

[Cdd89]

Wearing a mask on entering a restaurant, when not required to, strikes me as incredibly awkward. It sends the message that you approve of and expect mask wearing “in return” from those serving you, while not wearing one yourself at your table.

 

[John Luxton]

If organisations want to delay getting back to reality and normality that is of course their choice.

And potentially losing custom from those of us who have never been happy with masks - especially given the inconclusive proof they are effective anyway. In reality I have always perceived them as a psychological crutch for the worried well to get that part of the population out and about again.

I am not against people wearing masks if they want to - it should always have been about free choice and people making their own decisions based on what is correct for themselves and their families.

Personally I find them obnoxious, make breathing difficult, are am environmental nuisance and worse still make you look like a wally!

Wearing a mask on entering a restaurant, when not required to, strikes me as incredibly awkward. It sends the message that you approve of and expect mask wearing “in return” from those serving you, while not wearing one yourself at your table.

Recent restaurant experiences - one in Devon, England most staff wearing them (September) and one or two customers.

Wales this weekend no staff wearing them in fact in the welcome leaflet to the hotel / restaurant complex it states that staff will not wear a mask but they will regularly wash their hands. Also no customers wearing them - except in the gift shops on the same site and the shops were very quiet compared to the bar and restaurant.

John

 

[Merseysider]

Her reply was "well, I'll just have to believe you then, come in".

With that attitude they'd have lost my custom Mad how some people still want to repel customers & their wallets!

 

[Randomer]

The new vaccine passports don't make any sense to me at all. You can sit in a 1500+ capacity theatre for >3hrs not distanced, with no mask requirement and not require a "pass" yet can't go into a standing event a third of the size for a much shorter gig without one.

Especially after Mark Drakeford who seems to be so keen on keeping the mask mandate and introducing a "pass" system was sat watching a whole show the other day not wearing a mask at all. At least it somewhat sensibly isn't trying to force vaccination by having the use of lateral flow testing as on option.

 

[Merseysider]

At least it somewhat sensibly isn't trying to force vaccination by having the use of lateral flow testing as on option.

LFTs might not be free forever though. ISTR reading somewhere that they cost the NHS £10 a box, though can't remember the source and it could be more or less than that now.