Wales: Current Covid rules illogical

[Richard Scott]

Cinemas and theatres off my menu then. Shame.

...and mine!

 

[Dai Corner]

I wonder why Plaid Cymru voted against the previous Covid Pass legislation but for the latest measures?

 

[JRT]

Some observations whilst spending a few days in Wales for FWHR Bygones Weekend.

When visiting the FWHR for longer than a day I stay at Portmeirion which has two hotels and several shops on site.

Since my last stay the hotel has returned to 100% pre Covid normality. The bubble shelters located on the lawn in early summer have gone. The restaurant is back to the usual number of tables, the transparent screens between tables also gone.

Virtually all of the staff are unmasked. Screens on reception and bar have now gone as well.

The buffet part of breakfast has been reinstated. Thus people can mix and mingle around bar and breakfast buffet unrestricted / unmasked / undistanced.

However, in the shops on the same site which are far less busy than the restaurant and the bar one has to wear a mask!

The FWHR are still running pre-booked only trains – though that way they get round the face mask rule which I dare say would come into play if they ran a normal service.

Though I have been against many of the Covid rules since day one as they were in my opinion an over reaction by the politicians, the situation which now prevails in Wales in retail and public transport is just crazy irrespective of the side of the Covid measures argument you stand.

Shops, trains and buses are generally much less busier than bars / restaurants / hotels which often have many more people in close proximity often for some hours rather than minutes.

Does anyone know why, other than trying to out do Westminster why the Senedd is perpetuating this nonsense?

Just seems completely illogical.

John

Only thing I can think of is:

Hotels and events (including prepaid tourist railways) are something that you choose to do and by analogy it is your choice and at your own risk

Shopping and commuting (including pay on the day travelling) is something that you have to do so don't have a choice, so you have to be protected or you have to protect other people.

Think VAT, some things are taxed, some aren't.

 

[MikeWM]

I see the independent cinema in Swansea that said it wasn't going to enforce vaccine passports has just been shut down by some agents of the state.

What a time to be alive.

 

[Richard Scott]

I see the independent cinema in Swansea that said it wasn't going to enforce vaccine passports has just been shut down by some agents of the state.

What a time to be alive.

Never thought we'd see the Stasi reappear in 21st Century Britain, disgraceful. I really despair with what is happening in a number of European countries, seems last Century's history has been totally forgotten.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

I think requiring people to keep 1.5 or 2m apart where possible is very good, I intend to continue doing that after covid has been exterminated.

In the queue at the food shop someone asked me to move forward. I refused citing the 2m separation. He suggested keeping 3m separation. Great idea, though I fear he did not mean it.

 

[Essan]

I think requiring people to keep 1.5 or 2m apart where possible is very good, I intend to continue doing that after covid has been exterminated.

In the queue at the food shop someone asked me to move forward. I refused citing the 2m separation. He suggested keeping 3m separation. Great idea, though I fear he did not mean it.

Totally agree! One of the best things to come out of this pandemic

 

[takno]

I think requiring people to keep 1.5 or 2m apart where possible is very good, I intend to continue doing that after covid has been exterminated.

In the queue at the food shop someone asked me to move forward. I refused citing the 2m separation. He suggested keeping 3m separation. Great idea, though I fear he did not mean it.

The main problem with this is that it's just the distance from the tills to the start of the queue. Behind that there's usually no distancing at all as everybody bunches up in order to fit through the door

 

[John Luxton]

I see the independent cinema in Swansea that said it wasn't going to enforce vaccine passports has just been shut down by some agents of the state.

What a time to be alive.

Shocking

People need to make a stand.

Perhaps "flying squads" of like minded people to protect such businesses from the council heavies?

I think requiring people to keep 1.5 or 2m apart where possible is very good, I intend to continue doing that after covid has been exterminated.

In the queue at the food shop someone asked me to move forward. I refused citing the 2m separation. He suggested keeping 3m separation. Great idea, though I fear he did not mean it.

The only good idea is hand sanitising. I have been doing it since I went on my first cruise years ago and thought hey that is a good idea.

As for social distancing and masks that I have not done and will not do.

Surprising that when I announced my non compliance back in March 2020 many predicted I would be dead.

Well I am not. True you may catch C19 just as you may catch flu but majority won't even be seriously ill or even know they have it.

We have been conned big style by the politicians. Unfortunately the Welsh / Scots / Irish and Manx have been conned even more.

 

[Bikeman78]

The only good idea is hand sanitising. I have been doing it since I went on my first cruise years ago and thought hey that is a good idea.

As for social distancing and masks that I have not done and will not do.

Surprising that when I announced my non compliance back in March 2020 many predicted I would be dead.

Well I am not. True you may catch C19 just as you may catch flu but majority won't even be seriously ill or even know they have it.

We have been conned big style by the politicians. Unfortunately the Welsh / Scots / Irish and Manx have been conned even more.

Only one person that I know (or knew) has died of Covid, she was in her late 70s. I know a few people that declined the vaccine, some have had Covid, some have not. They are all alive and well. I know people that have been super cautious and nearly all of them have had Covid! It's all down to luck.

 

[MattA7]

Imagine by now everyone has been exposed to the virus some way or another either through vaccination or catching the virus in the community. I would be very surprised if 99% of the population didn’t already have some form of Covid antibodies either through infection or vaccination.

 

[Dai Corner]

Imagine by now everyone has been exposed to the virus some way or another either through vaccination or catching the virus in the community. I would be very surprised if 99% of the population didn’t already have some form of Covid antibodies either through infection or vaccination.

I think the fear is that the antibodies won't necessarily be effective against new strains of the virus.

 

[MikeWM]

I think the fear is that the antibodies won't necessarily be effective against new strains of the virus.

But that's also potentially a problem with continually vaccinating people against the original Wuhan strain of the virus, which is effectively extinct now. It is also potentially a problem with the vaccines in general - all of the current ones (those used in the West, at least) are very narrowly focused on the 'spike' rather than the whole of the virus.

 

[Bantamzen]

I think requiring people to keep 1.5 or 2m apart where possible is very good, I intend to continue doing that after covid has been exterminated.

In the queue at the food shop someone asked me to move forward. I refused citing the 2m separation. He suggested keeping 3m separation. Great idea, though I fear he did not mean it.

I'd get ready to do it for the rest of your life then, SARS-CoV-2 is going nowhere.....

 

[Bikeman78]

I'd get ready to do it for the rest of your life then, SARS-CoV-2 is going nowhere.....

Agreed. I know more people who have died of not Covid than of Covid. Should we all sit around worrying about those causes of death too? Any of us could die at any moment from one of a hundred causes. None are particularly likely but it's possible. We just need to get on and do the things we enjoy. Looking around me, it's obvious that lots of people are doing exactly that.

 

[Bantamzen]

Agreed. I know more people who have died of not Covid than of Covid. Should we all sit around worrying about those causes of death too? Any of us could die at any moment from one of a hundred causes. None are particularly likely but it's possible. We just need to get on and do the things we enjoy. Looking around me, it's obvious that lots of people are doing exactly that.

Exactly. I recently lost a member of our family to dementia. In her final months trying to get suitable care for her was harder than trying to draw the sword from the stone. And this could be true for an estimated 850K people in the UK diagnosed with it, many have simply been kicked into the grass because the NHS is focused on panicking about covid which in turn makes the politicians / media / public focus only on covid.

 

[hst43102]

I see the independent cinema in Swansea that said it wasn't going to enforce vaccine passports has just been shut down by some agents of the state.

What a time to be alive.

Article is now on the BBC. Absolutely disgusting move from the Welsh govt.

Covid passes: Swansea cinema told to close for defying law

Swansea Council says it is "considering further steps" after Cinema & Co remained open on Friday.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[bramling]

Exactly. I recently lost a member of our family to dementia. In her final months trying to get suitable care for her was harder than trying to draw the sword from the stone. And this could be true for an estimated 850K people in the UK diagnosed with it, many have simply been kicked into the grass because the NHS is focused on panicking about covid which in turn makes the politicians / media / public focus only on covid.

Absolutely. There was a horrific story in my local paper recently - a young lady who had tried to see her GP multiple times with abdominal pains, got fobbed off on telephone consultations, when she finally got taken seriously it turned out she had bowel cancer. The lady has now sadly passed away.

I also know someone at work whose father had a heart attack, and the ambulance was delayed arriving due to being stuck in gridlock during the height of the petrol panic buying. No one knows if the outcome might have been different if the ambulance had arrived in time, however the ambulance didn't make it in time.

Too much focus on Covid.

 

[greyman42]

I think requiring people to keep 1.5 or 2m apart where possible is very good, I intend to continue doing that after covid has been exterminated.

Have you got any sort of social life?

 

[35B]

Never thought we'd see the Stasi reappear in 21st Century Britain, disgraceful. I really despair with what is happening in a number of European countries, seems last Century's history has been totally forgotten.

Sorry, what? A democratically elected government subject to electoral scrutiny passes a law requiring businesses to do a certain thing, and then enforces said law, is compared to the Stasi? That is an insult to those whose lives were destroyed by the Stasi.

It's not good law, and it's clearly not very effective, but this misrepresentation of historical fact is far worse than the action of the Welsh authorities to enforce the law they've implemented.

Still, I suppose we should be thankful for the small mercies of a more creative comparison that Gestapo/Holocaust...

 

[Dai Corner]

Sorry, what? A democratically elected government subject to electoral scrutiny passes a law requiring businesses to do a certain thing, and then enforces said law, is compared to the Stasi? That is an insult to those whose lives were destroyed by the Stasi.

It's not good law, and it's clearly not very effective, but this misrepresentation of historical fact is far worse than the action of the Welsh authorities to enforce the law they've implemented.

Still, I suppose we should be thankful for the small mercies of a more creative comparison that Gestapo/Holocaust...

Getting back to illogicality, travellers from major stations will recall the security personnel enforcing mask wearing, social distancing and one-way systems until a few months ago. We've also read about the Covid passes required to attend Rugby internationals.

No such precautions were deemed necessary on the crush-loaded trains to/from Cardiff on the recent Rugby day's judging by press reports backed up by photos taken on board.

 

[Berliner]

Sorry, what? A democratically elected government subject to electoral scrutiny passes a law requiring businesses to do a certain thing, and then enforces said law, is compared to the Stasi? That is an insult to those whose lives were destroyed by the Stasi.

It's not good law, and it's clearly not very effective, but this misrepresentation of historical fact is far worse than the action of the Welsh authorities to enforce the law they've implemented.

Still, I suppose we should be thankful for the small mercies of a more creative comparison that Gestapo/Holocaust...

I find that people who compare our current situation to life under the stasi have absolutely no idea who or what the stasi were. The hilarious "papers please" line that's trotted out in comparison to the stasi couldn't be less accurate. If the stasi were after you you'd not know until they wanted you to know you were being watched and by that time it was too late for you to do anything about it. They wouldn't ask for papers because they already knew who you were and knew every detail about your life.

The whole idea of these passports is to prove that you have had a vaccine. It's nothing like the system the stasi/KGB/securitate lorded over. Not even remotely close.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I find that people who compare our current situation to life under the stasi have absolutely no idea who or what the stasi were. The hilarious "papers please" line that's trotted out in comparison to the stasi couldn't be less accurate. If the stasi were after you you'd not know until they wanted you to know you were being watched and by that time it was too late for you to do anything about it. They wouldn't ask for papers because they already knew who you were and knew every detail about your life.

The whole idea of these passports is to prove that you have had a vaccine. It's nothing like the system the stasi/KGB/securitate lorded over. Not even remotely close.

Maybe we should wait until it is exactly like life under the Stasi and complain then?

 

[greyman42]

Maybe we should wait until it is exactly like life under the Stasi and complain then?

I doubt that the poster literally meant that anyone was like the Stasi. More like a referral to a "papers please" society.

 

[35B]

Maybe we should wait until it is exactly like life under the Stasi and complain then?

Something that becomes more, rather than less, likely when wildly inappropriate and inaccurate comparisons are made - the story of the boy who cried wolf being the classic parable.

 

[Berliner]

Maybe we should wait until it is exactly like life under the Stasi and complain then?

How do we go from having to prove you're vaccinated against a virus during a pandemic to kids being recruited by the state to spy on thier parents TV viewing habits?

Your hysterics over this are an insult to every life ruined or lost by dictatorial regimes. If anything it's England we need to worry about as the Tories have used to pandemic to cover up many questionable bills, many of which wouldn't look out of place in the Eastern bloc.

 

[Yew]

I find that people who compare our current situation to life under the stasi have absolutely no idea who or what the stasi were. The hilarious "papers please" line that's trotted out in comparison to the stasi couldn't be less accurate. If the stasi were after you you'd not know until they wanted you to know you were being watched and by that time it was too late for you to do anything about it. They wouldn't ask for papers because they already knew who you were and knew every detail about your life.

The whole idea of these passports is to prove that you have had a vaccine. It's nothing like the system the stasi/KGB/securitate lorded over. Not even remotely close.

Presumably this is due to your extensive first hand experience of life under the Stasi?

 

[Berliner]

Presumably this is due to your extensive first hand experience of life under the Stasi?

I know a hell of a lot more about life under the stasi than anyone here claiming a vaccine passport is anything to moan about compare to what the citizens of the DDR went through, so while I didn't live in East Germany, it's something I know an incredible amount about and have not only lived with with people who were subjected to stasi interference in their student life, but also studied the subject extensively. We really have no sense of reality in the UK when we think an app to get us into a pub is comparable. Absolute nonsense.

 

[Yew]

I know a hell of a lot more about life under the stasi than anyone here claiming a vaccine passport is anything to moan about compare to what the citizens of the DDR went through, so while I didn't live in East Germany, it's something I know an incredible amount about and have not only lived with with people who were subjected to stasi interference in their student life, but also studied the subject extensively. We really have no sense of reality in the UK when we think an app to get us into a pub is comparable. Absolute nonsense.

How about fines for having a cup of coffee on a walk?

 

[Berliner]

How about fines for having a cup of coffee on a walk?

The stasi didn't fine people for that.