Train interfered with leading to wagon derailment 10/10/21

[norbitonflyer]

Let's not forget that in years gone by, "youths" have been responsible for the fatal derailment of a train (Glasgow "Blue Train" I believe, driver killed?),

June 1994, on the Wemyss bay branch near the site of the future Drumfrochtar station. There were four passengers and two traincrew on board. The driver and a passenger were killed after the train was derailed by concrete trunking covers placed on the rails, and hit a bridge support. Two 17-year olds were convicted of culpable homicide (what is known as manslaughter south of the border) and sentenced to 15 years imprisonment, which was upheld on appeal. Evidence from two girls who had been with the youths (but not gone down to the track) was that they had boasted of putting something on the rails.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Being connected to a mobile phone tower (especially in a urban area) is no where near enough cause to break data protection or compel the handset owner to show what is on it.

I am not sure what this sentence means but in a criminal court of law, such mobile phone data, and links to the nearest cell phone antenna can be used in evidence and to prove where the handset was at a particular time. The handset owner would be compelled to hand over the handset. Even if he didn't hand it over, or ditched the phone, evidence can be sought from the mobile phone company.

I know this as I spent 4 months jury service at the Old Bailey and we had a 47-page size A3 booklet full of call logs, IMEI numbers, cell tower locations/identifiers which proved invaluable to the case

 

[Bertie the bus]

I am not sure what this sentence means but in a criminal court of law, such mobile phone data, and links to the nearest cell phone antenna can be used in evidence and to prove where the handset was at a particular time. The handset owner would be compelled to hand over the handset. Even if he didn't hand it over, or ditched the phone, evidence can be sought from the mobile phone company.

You are talking about two completely different things. If a suspect is arrested the police can confiscate their mobile phone and interrogate records to track their movements. However, unless they have a very good reason they can't obtain a list of phones connected to a mast to identify suspects. I was watching one of those murder documentaries recently where somebody had been tortured and beaten to death and somebody had been seen using a mobile earlier outside the victims house. The investigating officer said they weren't granted permission to obtain a list of numbers connected to the nearest mast. So if they couldn't when someone was tortured and murdered they certainly wouldn't be able to when somebody uncouples a freight wagon.

 

[GB]

You are talking about two completely different things. If a suspect is arrested the police can confiscate their mobile phone and interrogate records to track their movements. However, unless they have a very good reason they can't obtain a list of phones connected to a mast to identify suspects. I was watching one of those murder documentaries recently where somebody had been tortured and beaten to death and somebody had been seen using a mobile earlier outside the victims house. The investigating officer said they weren't granted permission to obtain a list of numbers connected to the nearest mast. So if they couldn't when someone was tortured and murdered they certainly wouldn't be able to when somebody uncouples a freight wagon.

^This^

 

[norbitonflyer]

You are talking about two completely different things. If a suspect is arrested the police can confiscate their mobile phone and interrogate records to track their movements. However, unless they have a very good reason they can't obtain a list of phones connected to a mast to identify suspects.

If the culprits have filmed it on their phones and shared it, the footage may be able to be traced back to a particular suspect. Once a suspect has been identified, location data might then be used to corroborate the users whereabouts. But doing a sweep of everyone who happened to be in the area? We haven't quite got to Big Brother yet.

Similarly the DVLA will not release details of vehicle owners without a reason - forecourt drive-offs for example.

 

[edwin_m]

June 1994, on the Wemyss bay branch near the site of the future Drumfrochtar station. There were four passengers and two traincrew on board. The driver and a passenger were killed after the train was derailed by concrete trunking covers placed on the rails, and hit a bridge support. Two 17-year olds were convicted of culpable homicide (what is known as manslaughter south of the border) and sentenced to 15 years imprisonment, which was upheld on appeal. Evidence from two girls who had been with the youths (but not gone down to the track) was that they had boasted of putting something on the rails.
Also this one, fatality to a driver when a train struck a bridge abutment. The derailment was caused by damage to a lifeguard which in turn was apparently due to striking a concrete block.

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/HSE_StHelensCentral1988.pdf

Following the incident, when the Down line was inspected towards Wigan on 14 November, some three days after the accident, a smashed concrete block that would have weighed 53 kg when complete was found about 1'1, miles in rear of the junction; it had not been there when the line was inspected the previous week. The pieces and reinforcing of the concrete were so arranged as to indicate that the block had been placed on the track and had been struck by a train.

 

[Pinus contorta]

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/HSE_StHelensCentral1988.pdf

I remember shortly after this incident, the visit from the British Rail or British Transport Police to give a safety talk at our school assembly about dangers of trespassing on the railway. One of the guys in my class ( his parent was BR employee) I think told me they had visited all the secondary schools in the surrounding area.

 

[GB]

Same train at same location has been interfered with again, fortunately no runaway or derailment this time.

 

[Clip]

As a social worker I think it's worth pointing out that it is not always youths from the lower classes that get up to mischief nor whether they have had a good up raining or not.

Teen are geared to make decisions without thought for any consequences- in fact not even just teens but younger children too it's one of the ways they grow up and learn that fire is hot and so on and so forth. And there's also the thrill element of doing something you shouldn't be doing and the risk of getting caught.

It's certainly not about class or upbringing as some seem to claim on here and it's quite bad to see such claims

I remember when me grandad used to tell us how him and his friends uses to put coins on the rails or push loose trucks about a yard- shouldn't have done it but they did and teenagers from all walks of life will continue to make such decisions as it's part of growing up

 

[edwin_m]

As a social worker I think it's worth pointing out that it is not always youths from the lower classes that get up to mischief nor whether they have had a good up raining or not.

Teen are geared to make decisions without thought for any consequences- in fact not even just teens but younger children too it's one of the ways they grow up and learn that fire is hot and so on and so forth. And there's also the thrill element of doing something you shouldn't be doing and the risk of getting caught.

It's certainly not about class or upbringing as some seem to claim on here and it's quite bad to see such claims

I remember when me grandad used to tell us how him and his friends uses to put coins on the rails or push loose trucks about a yard- shouldn't have done it but they did and teenagers from all walks of life will continue to make such decisions as it's part of growing up

Just think of the Bullingdon Club and similar institutions where privileged kids cause a lot of damage and grief, only partly forgiven because they usually pay for repairs.