Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[TEW]

surely not different doors to 720's which regularly do 100mph

I believe the issue has been the cab doors which are different on 701s.

 

[100andthirty]

Class 710/720 use hinged cab doors which open inwards. Class 701 has sliding plug cab doors which open outwards rather like those on class 450.

 

[Snow1964]

Class 710/720 use hinged cab doors which open inwards. Class 201 has sliding plug cab doors which open outwards rather like those on class 450.

I suspect you mean class 701
201 was a Hastings line DEMU

 

[100andthirty]

I suspect you mean class 701
201 was a Hastings line DEMU

Oops! Thanks.........corrected.

 

[Monty]

What?? How often has this happened? Surely they wouldn't be allowed out on test runs with such issues?

It's happened a number of times now, no emergency brake application either. To. Make things worse Bombardier can't seem to identify the fault.

The 5 car units won't communicate with each other properly either, there is a literal catalogue of issues with these things, the concerns raised ASLEF should be the least of Bombardiers concerns..

 

[Mollman]

Alstom must be coming close to regretting that purchase of Bombardier by now!

Short-term pain, also having issues with delivery of Tallent 3 EMUs in Austria. No doubt they have a plan for either improving or replacing the Aventra platform.

 

[TRAX]

Short-term pain, also having issues with delivery of Tallent 3 EMUs in Austria. No doubt they have a plan for either improving or replacing the Aventra platform.

It should get easier for Alstom with the Talent 3 issues, as ÖBB has cancelled both orders and replaced them with more orders for Desiros.

 

[fgwrich]

It should get easier for Alstom with the Talent 3 issues, as ÖBB has cancelled both orders and replaced them with more orders for Desiros.

Ouch I'm starting to wonder if this 701 debacle will become Alstom's first new UK cancellation at this rate!

 

[gazr]

At this rate, the 507/508 going for scrap soon will be sent to SWR as back ups.

 

[pompeyfan]

Several 455s are reported as requiring being scrapped by Road as they’re in such a poor state. I’m led to believe at least ten units are being used as Christmas trees or unlikely to see service again, with 456s and 458s having similar issues.

I know it won’t happen but it would almost seem worth while doing an emergency loan of 387s, the numbers and length of time aren’t too dissimilar to Scotrail emergency loaning of 365s.

I’ve also seen a document which shows January is a possibility of passenger introduction, assuming a meeting with ASLEF in two weeks goes well.
I believe method of work has been confirmed in regards to dispatch and train working.

 

[swr444]

Several 455s are reported as requiring being scrapped by Road as they’re in such a poor state. I’m led to believe at least ten units are being used as Christmas trees or unlikely to see service again, with 456s and 458s having similar issues.

I know it won’t happen but it would almost seem worth while doing an emergency loan of 387s, the numbers and length of time aren’t too dissimilar to Scotrail emergency loaning of 365s.

I’ve also seen a document which shows January is a possibility of passenger introduction, assuming a meeting with ASLEF in two weeks goes well.
I believe method of work has been confirmed in regards to dispatch and train working.

So many 4 car 455's already out there in service the past few days...

Any idea what the method of work has been confirmed as?

 

[adc82140]

At this rate, the 507/508 going for scrap soon will be sent to SWR as back ups.

That's not such a daft idea. I'm going to start a thread in the speculative ideas sub forum. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-ex-merseyrail-507-508s-be-used-on-swr-services.224010/

 

[43096]

Several 455s are reported as requiring being scrapped by Road as they’re in such a poor state. I’m led to believe at least ten units are being used as Christmas trees or unlikely to see service again, with 456s and 458s having similar issues.

Of course it is not SWR’s decision if they go in that state. Ultimately Porterbrook could say “fix them” if it wanted to. If they are going for scrap, more likely is that Porterbrook will be after cash instead.

 

[pompeyfan]

So many 4 car 455's already out there in service the past few days...

Any idea what the method of work has been confirmed as?

Driver release, driver close but metro guards to retain dispatch for degraded working. Usual caveat of subject to change.

 

[alf]

Driver release, driver close but metro guards to retain dispatch for degraded working. Usual caveat of subject to change.

Sounds rather like the introduction of real DOO on BR in the London area in the last century.

Guards were retained for degraded working ..but only for an agreed
4 months.
Then if DOO worked the guards were to be moved to long distance services or voluntary redundancy.
DOO worked. Most drivers liked it & the routes became full DOO. As they still are.

 

[Juniper Driver]

That's not such a daft idea. I'm going to start a thread in the speculative ideas sub forum. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-ex-merseyrail-507-508s-be-used-on-swr-services.224010/

Yup I agree, although I was thinking of 315s for spares, this is a better idea.

 

[pompeyfan]

Sounds rather like the introduction of real DOO on BR in the London area in the last century.

Guards were retained for degraded working ..but only for an agreed
4 months.
Then if DOO worked the guards were to be moved to long distance services or voluntary redundancy.
DOO worked. Most drivers liked it & the routes became full DOO. As they still are.

Apart from the fact Wessex ASLEF agreed with the company that no train would run in passenger service without the guard. For that to change that would involve another pay talk for drivers and the likely “purchase” of DOO.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Short-term pain, also having issues with delivery of Tallent 3 EMUs in Austria. No doubt they have a plan for either improving or replacing the Aventra platform.

345, 710 and 720's are Aventras and are reasonable reliable its like the 701 is a brand new design and not just the cab

 

[WarrenTManager]

Several 455s are reported as requiring being scrapped by Road as they’re in such a poor state. I’m led to believe at least ten units are being used as Christmas trees or unlikely to see service again, with 456s and 458s having similar issues.

I know it won’t happen but it would almost seem worth while doing an emergency loan of 387s, the numbers and length of time aren’t too dissimilar to Scotrail emergency loaning of 365s.

I’ve also seen a document which shows January is a possibility of passenger introduction, assuming a meeting with ASLEF in two weeks goes well.
I believe method of work has been confirmed in regards to dispatch and train working.

There are three robbed heavily, all itemised and with parts and patience could be resurrected. Some are very close to needing a bogie overhaul in terms of mileage. Some are waiting materials to come. Convincing suppliers to speculatively overhaul components at their financial risk that they could then be stuck with worth thousands of pounds is quite tricky. So items get repaired on failure, with long lead times.

 

[Nogoohwell]

Surely whoever scrapped the 317's would have kept a few spare bogies and other bits for potential selling to SWR & Southern

 

[fgwrich]

I was quite surprised to see 701025 making a trip out on the mainline today, possibly the only unit doing so? The TMD looked full of them again and the works still has two.

The Real-time Trains entry seems to have gone rather askew for it though!

Realtime Trains - 5Q42 1430 Eastleigh Trsmd to Eastleigh Trsmd

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Recessio]

And what about when the windscreen is covered in rain ! Do the drivers go on strike, then ?

Only if it's the wrong type of rain!

 

[Bigfoot]

The Real-time Trains entry seems to have gone rather askew for it though!

Very common issue for trips that pass over the same place more than once.

 

[Snow1964]

There are three robbed heavily, all itemised and with parts and patience could be resurrected. Some are very close to needing a bogie overhaul in terms of mileage. Some are waiting materials to come. Convincing suppliers to speculatively overhaul components at their financial risk that they could then be stuck with worth thousands of pounds is quite tricky. So items get repaired on failure, with long lead times.

This is where it starts to get tricky, when some reach mileage limit which means overhaul or scrap. Whilst a small number can be stopped and parts stripped to keep others going, it obviously increases the rate that the remainder need to work.

I am guessing there is a crunch decision pending, about authorising overhauls, and will cost be covered by delays to 701s. Add to the mix that SouthEastern probably want 707s sooner rather than later, and becomes a question of how many 455s get life extended (as in patched up to continue to run for few extra months, not a refurb)

Suppliers are unlikely to take any risk doing overhauls speculatively, (perhaps some is commercially sensible to avoid loss of future business), so have to assume that unless money is thrown at overhauls, it will be not much more than a half-hearted trickle to avoid severing business relationships. Almost certainly won’t be fast enough to keep virtually a full fleet of 455s and 456s running without funding.

 

[dingdinger]

701025 currently at Waterloo about to work 5Q03

 

[spark001uk]

Worth noting they've started using the low numbered (5Q0x etc) runs just lately, which I believe were the paths originally intended for driver training? I know it doesn't really matter who drives what headcode, they are currently still showing as Gbrf run, and I'm fairly sure driver training hasn't started yet.

 

[Milo T.K]

Yup I agree, although I was thinking of 315s for spares, this is a better idea.

Slight off topic thing but 315s are overhead only tho.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Slight off topic thing but 315s are overhead only tho.

I know I used to work on them.

 

[dingdinger]

Worth noting they've started using the low numbered (5Q0x etc) runs just lately, which I believe were the paths originally intended for driver training? I know it doesn't really matter who drives what headcode, they are currently still showing as Gbrf run, and I'm fairly sure driver training hasn't started yet.

It was gbrf running the one I saw earlier

 

[galwhv69]

Not sure how long they've been there for, but 701 ramps are in place at Vauxhall