Stations rebranded to Great British Railways design / Rail Alphabet 2

[birchesgreen]

Looks good, well on that unit anyway. Have to see it on a variety of rolling stock to be sure...

 

[Goldfish62]

Im a big fan of a return to blue and grey. The specific shade of blue was used as it hide brake dust and dirt more than other colours

That's because cleaning wasn't high on BR's agenda in the 70s.

 

[urbophile]

Slightly off topic but this seems to be the place to discuss GBR at present. Interesting mock up doublearrow on Twitter just posted:

XP22? Interesting (if a little nostalgic) take on the Great British Railways brand provided by the Institution of Mechanical Engineers (http://imeche.org) presumably using a GWR IET as a starting point…

https://twitter.com/_doublearrow/status/1455113527954493474/photo/1

Yeuch!

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Since Northern took over publicity from Metro, a lot of stations have lost their zonal maps which used to be up at every station. With many stations being unstaffed, this is useful information to have (yes, you can look it up online if you already know roughly where to look, but good publicity for MCards to have it readily available)

These MetroTrain zonal maps can often be seen outside of West Yorkshire such as at Darton. I do recall seeing one at Penistone, Snaith and at Church Fenton. Eventually these maps will be replaced by the standard Northern one which at one time did include the PTE's. This brings me to question - will the GBR publicity standards include having a local / regional network map?

 

[JaJaWa]

Stafford
Source: https://twitter.com/inv_pete/status/1455769897888325633



Rugby
Source: https://twitter.com/jameshepburn91/status/1455852499190042627

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not sure I like it. The arrows don't go with the font, and using the British Rail sign to mean "to the trains" is ambiguous (the picture of a train is clearer), though does at least provide some colour.

Dated and clunky.

Also, better and clearer to have the arrow on the side of the sign to which it is pointing (which even BR did).

 

[HarryL]

I like it, the use of the double arrow to indicate platforms is a slightly odd choice of the new standards though. That last image with the Platforms 5 and 6 should probably have an arrow facing the top right corner too, rather than pointing towards the stairs themselves.

 

[physics34]

Looks pretty good. We were told we'll be seeing the double arrow logo alot!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looks pretty good. We were told we'll be seeing the double arrow logo alot!

The double arrow represents the railway and everything it does, so giving it a second meaning of "trains" is a bit bizarre. The train pictogram was better.

I'm afraid I increasingly dislike this whole package. ScotRail and TfW* by contrast have attractive, modern and clear signage which also looks good.

* Except the ridiculous use of a lower-case delta symbol as the lower case D in an otherwise fairly normal font.

 

[Devonian]

Not sure I like it. The arrows don't go with the font, and using the British Rail sign to mean "to the trains" is ambiguous (the picture of a train is clearer), though does at least provide some colour.

Dated and clunky.

Also, better and clearer to have the arrow on the side of the sign to which it is pointing (which even BR did).

The arrows are far and away the worst part of this for me: I'm perfectly happy with neutral signage, the new font is OK (though it will date faster than Rail Alphabet) and black-on-white is my preference for signs; but the arrows are not as clear as the older ones, particularly at 45 degrees, thanks to the shaft not having enough contrast with the head.

And having arrows pointing at the text always looks bad. In the picture of the footbridge at Stafford, the distant signs have the right-pointing arrows after the text which looks much better - but is mismatched with the sign in the foreground. Stacking the arrows for no other reason than aligning the arrows with other arrows makes them less clear. Even if the symbols were stacked and all text alligned left, the arrows should be on the side of the direction.

 

[thomalex]

I'm a fan. It's familiar yet modern at the same time. It certainly is clearer than the existing muddy dark signage.

One thing I don't understand is why the double arrow is included on the platform direction signs, reading the guidelines I thought it was only to appear on the station name boards or when directing to the station itself. I could only think there are platforms at Stafford which aren't for trains?

Also can't help but think the arrow should be on the side of the direction, a bit like this:

 

[JaJaWa]

I'm a fan. It's familiar yet modern at the same time. It certainly is clearer than the existing muddy dark signage.

One thing I don't understand is why the double arrow is included on the platform signs, reading the guidelines I thought it was only to appear on the station name boards or when directing to the station itself. I could only think there are platforms at Stafford which aren't for trains?

Also can't help but think the arrow should be on the side of the direction, a bit like this:

I’m pretty sure how that is how it’s meant to be but I guess they wanted to align the text… not good that there is deviation to the standard right from the start though (as with Northern not putting the symbol on the station name signs).

 

[Irascible]

That is a mess, everything looks a different size! I agree that it should be the train symbol too. The font looks remarkably just like some of the lighter weight versions of the original RA BR used every now and then, hope noone was paid too much

 

[birchesgreen]

Why is the BR symbol needed on the platform signs?

I think the font needs a slightly heavier weight. Better than those awful Virgin era signs anyway!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Better than those awful Virgin era signs anyway!

I like those. Quite stylish and still clear.

 

[birchesgreen]

I like those. Quite stylish and still clear.

You'll never convince me to be a fan of yellow text on a grey background.

 

[Goldfish62]

Is NR providing the new signage or are the TOCs doing the work while following the requisite design standards? If it's the latter this would explain what appear to be inconsistencies and horrors such as the temporary looking signage on the Settle & Carlisle line.

 

[nlogax]

I'm a fan. It's familiar yet modern at the same time. It certainly is clearer than the existing muddy dark signage.

One thing I don't understand is why the double arrow is included on the platform direction signs, reading the guidelines I thought it was only to appear on the station name boards or when directing to the station itself. I could only think there are platforms at Stafford which aren't for trains?

Also can't help but think the arrow should be on the side of the direction, a bit like this:

View attachment 105123

Looks ok there although the implementation looks a bit sloppy. Again I wonder if this is temporary application in lieu of something more robust that doesn't look like I made it.

 

[HarryL]

The font looks remarkably just like some of the lighter weight versions of the original RA BR used every now and then, hope noone was paid too much

The Rail Alphabet 2 typeface was made by Margaret Calvert and Henrik Kubel, the same pair that made New Rail Alphabet in 2009 and Calvert being half of the duo that made the original Rail Alphabet, so it was done by very good hands .

 

[Non Multi]

Is NR providing the new signage or are the TOCs doing the work while following the requisite design standards? If it's the latter this would explain what appear to be inconsistencies and horrors such as the temporary looking signage on the Settle & Carlisle line.

It's the various TOC creative teams interpreting what's set out in the design manual. I'd have distributed each team all the electronic files of sign templates for absolute visual consistency.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's the various TOC creative teams interpreting what's set out in the design manual. I'd have distributed each team all the electronic files of sign templates for absolute visual consistency.

To be honest I'd just contract one company to do the job nationally, much easier and probably cheaper due to it being in bulk.

 

[Goldfish62]

To be honest I'd just contract one company to do the job nationally, much easier and probably cheaper due to it being in bulk.

And would ensure consistency.

 

[birchesgreen]

Its probably a good idea for some field tests in the real world though to iron out any problems with the designs.

 

[HarryL]

GWR has kind of had a go at RA2. They have chosen to basically completely ignore the guidelines though. They've used the bolder font and adding their logo banner along the bottom with the double arrow in green, so GBR will need to go back through and redo it again when they eventually come in.

https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/1458089698732171273

 

[the sniper]

GWR has kind of had a go at RA2. They have chosen to basically completely ignore the guidelines though. They've used the bolder font and adding their logo banner along the bottom with the double arrow in green, so GBR will need to go back through and redo it again when they eventually come in.

https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/1458089698732171273

Looks far too presentable, will certainly need removing...

 

[LowLevel]

GWR has kind of had a go at RA2. They have chosen to basically completely ignore the guidelines though. They've used the bolder font and adding their logo banner along the bottom with the double arrow in green, so GBR will need to go back through and redo it again when they eventually come in.

https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/1458089698732171273

Looks much better with a bit of weight to it.

No one has said it will need redoing. No one knows what GBR will do with local branding.

EMR are still repainting and rebranding stations at a pace now. It was always meant to be the same brand regardless of who won the franchise.

 

[HarryL]

No one has said it will need redoing. No one knows what GBR will do with local branding.

The whole point of GBR (in terms of branding at least) is to unify everything like signs, brands, etc as it's got out of control at this stage though.

In terms of the new signage guidelines, the point is that it's supposed to all match no matter where on the network you are, so stations here and there ignoring the guidelines would defeat that purpose. Even in the unexpected event they did keep current brands like GWR, the signs would all still be replaced and make no mention of them as the double arrow is there for identification instead.

EMR are still repainting and rebranding stations at a pace now. It was always meant to be the same brand regardless of who won the franchise.

This may be the case and it's entirely EMRs decision to do that, but they're throwing money away as franchising is dead so their brand will eventually turn into GBR and the EMR brand, like GWR, is expected to disappear with it.

 

[LowLevel]

The whole point of GBR (in terms of branding at least) is to unify everything like signs, brands, etc as it's got out of control at this stage though.

In terms of the new signage guidelines, the point is that it's supposed to all match no matter where on the network you are, so stations here and there ignoring the guidelines would defeat that purpose. Even in the unexpected event they did keep current brands like GWR, the signs would all still be replaced and make no mention of them as the double arrow is there for identification instead.



This may be the case and it's entirely EMRs decision to do that, but they're throwing money away as franchising is dead so their brand will eventually turn into GBR and the EMR brand, like GWR, is expected to disappear with it.

They're not throwing money away though. All capital expenditure is directed by the DfT.

The GWR sign has the logo on it. There's nothing to say that GWR won't survive with suitable GBR branding applied.

 

[Non Multi]

Proof if you needed it that it's the TOCs interpreting the design manual. It won't need replacing, a strip of black vinyl over the green would suffice.

 

[ABB125]

I like that GWR design - it looks much better than the various other attempts which have been made.