Branding and marketing blunders or failures on the railway.

[krus_aragon]

I recall the Volo screens (in coach D?) of HSTs when I was living in Cardiff in the early 2010s, but don't recall any special livery on the outside. Most screens appeared functional, but I only ever used the free map function on them.

Technologically speaking, they're quite similar to the headphone sockets on Voyagers and 175s, and payphones on 158s: very high tech at the time, but soon dated. (Not that that's strictly a branding issue, of course.)

 

[Alanko]

Given that it won awards, and is still heralded now as a re-branding programme that worked, it rather suggests that you're in a rather small minority.

Apologies for causing you such distress. I have seen the error of my ways and have adjusted my feelings on an obsolete railway symbology accordingly.

 

[Shoeburysam]

I'm sure I read at the time an official statement that the c2c name can, essentially, mean whatever you want it to mean. OK, that was wrapped up in marketing speak, but that was the gist of it.

This is the official answer.
Unofficial no one knows.

 

[RUK]

See, I thought it was "capital to coast" - so perhaps not that good! Or is it "c(ity) to see"?

This is the official answer. Unofficial no one knows.

If you look at the interior doors between the carriages on some of their trains, they have a variety of words beginning with "c", e.g. "club2commuters2culture2..." etc. written on them - you can see some of them in this video at 0:29 :

 

[Shoeburysam]

If you look at the interior doors between the carriages on some of their trains, they have a variety of words beginning with "c", e.g. "club2commuters2culture2..." etc. written on them - you can see some of them in this video at 0:29 :

I spend a lot of time on them. Its just a play on the name, there is no official meaning to the brand name.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Country 2 Capital?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I spend a lot of time on them. Its just a play on the name, there is no official meaning to the brand name.

Most likely the branding company's idea was precisely that - not that it stood for nothing, but that there were lots of possibilities, which could itself lead into a marketing campaign.

 

[Meerkat]

I don't get the problem with Northern Spirit, an attempt to make a train travel seem a positive, more inspiring, option that you might actually want to use.
HS2 had to be called High Speed. No way would politicians pay such a huge amount of money for anything else - they wanted shiny fast ego boosters like all the foreign folk have.

I am dreading the branding blunder to come - the threatened removal of TOC branding for a GBR blob, which judging by the station signs will be as inspiring as corporate blue looked by the end.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't get the problem with Northern Spirit, an attempt to make a train travel seem a positive, more inspiring, option that you might actually want to use.
HS2 had to be called High Speed. No way would politicians pay such a huge amount of money for anything else - they wanted shiny fast ego boosters like all the foreign folk have.

HS2 is unlikely to be called HS2 once it launches. Under the franchised system "Avanti Hispeed", "Avanti High Speed" or similar was near certain, but who knows now?

 

[SargeNpton]

I don't get the problem with Northern Spirit, an attempt to make a train travel seem a positive, more inspiring, option that you might actually want to use.
HS2 had to be called High Speed. No way would politicians pay such a huge amount of money for anything else - they wanted shiny fast ego boosters like all the foreign folk have.

Imagine no mention of speed being mentioned, then the nay-sayers would complain that we need a GB version of Ligne a Grand Vittesse to keep up with Europe.

HS2 is unlikely to be called HS2 once it launches. Under the franchised system "Avanti Hispeed", "Avanti High Speed" or similar was near certain, but who knows now?

The trains running along it possibly, but the route itself would forever be called HS2 - in much the same way as Southeastern's Javelin service runs on HS1.

 

[YorksLad12]

The trains running along it possibly, but the route itself would forever be called HS2 - in much the same way as Southeastern's Javelin service runs on HS1.

Here's a thing: 'Javelin' was only supposed to be used during the Olympics, even though it got used informally beforehand.

 

[Meerkat]

HS2 is unlikely to be called HS2 once it launches. Under the franchised system "Avanti Hispeed", "Avanti High Speed" or similar was near certain, but who knows now?

Bets on the brand having North/northern in the title??

 

[py_megapixel]

Has anyone mentioned South Western's awful "Arterio" moniker for the fleet of trains which should have been almost completely rolled out by now and they still haven't even got one in service?

If the 701s are supposed to represent the arteries of the railway network, then presumably that network is well on the way to entering a stroke.

 

[YorksLad12]

HS2 is unlikely to be called HS2 once it launches. Under the franchised system "Avanti Hispeed", "Avanti High Speed" or similar was near certain, but who knows now?

Bets on the brand having North/northern in the title??

The Bullseye Line - Thanks for playing, Yorkshire, here's what you could have won.
(Plus it goes to Birmingham.)

 

[The Quincunx]

Here's a thing: 'Javelin' was only supposed to be used during the Olympics, even though it got used informally beforehand.

I believe it was a registered service mark of the British Olympic Committee.

 

[HSTEd]

The Mother of all marketing errors was 'HS2'. EC1 Extra Capacity One would've got more support / sympathy

That depends on what you believe the purpose of the HS2 project was.

The cynic might suggest that it appeared out of nowhere in 2009 when Labour were pretty much guaranteed to lose the election, as a poison pill for David Cameron to get in trouble for cancelling.

With a route selected to be as expensive and politically fraught as possible.

 

[Ianigsy]

Seeing an old "Inter-City makes the going easy" poster in a book earlier on reminds me that the joke at the time was that a Travellers Fare Scotch egg would have the opposite effect....

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's hard to think of a worse person to front the 'This is the Age of the Train' adverts BR used to promote the HST than the one they chose, even if it had no impact at the time.

The use of the name One by NXEA was fairly inexplicable. How did no-one at any point in the branding exercise realise this might cause a smidgen of confusion for passengers when trains were being announced?

The name "One" for a rail operator still works in New Zealand, evidently:
Auckland One Rail takes over from Transdev under integrated operating contract | News | Railway Gazette International
[quote[
NEW ZEALAND: The Auckland One Rail joint venture took over from Transdev Auckland on January 17 as operator of suburban passenger services around the country’s largest city.[/quote]

It's a joint venture of firms from Singapore and Australia.

I think the name 'Connex' wasn't the failure as such, but the reputation that followed. The colours looked remarkably like Eurostar, in my view!

Connex as an organisation (originally part of Veolia) has evolved into Transdev, which is a not insignificant and successful transport operator worldwide.
The name Transdev is hardly a marketeer's dream either, but it works for them.

On the subject of brands, the UK has thrown away most of its old brands, either by mergers or disposal (eg ICI, GEC), or by just inventing a new brand.
Other countries, notably the USA, are very reluctant to change names or branding.
UPS is just about the most hideous brand (dull greeny-brown), but that hasn't stopped it becoming the dominant global logistics operator.

 

[the sniper]

The name "One" for a rail operator still works in New Zealand, evidently:
Auckland One Rail takes over from Transdev under integrated operating contract | News | Railway Gazette International
[quote[
NEW ZEALAND: The Auckland One Rail joint venture took over from Transdev Auckland on January 17 as operator of suburban passenger services around the country’s largest city.

New Zealand's not exactly known for making good railway choices though...

UPS is just about the most hideous brand (dull greeny-brown), but that hasn't stopped it becoming the dominant global logistics operator.

Different strokes for different folks, I think it actually looks rather classy!

 

[physics34]

I saw a 66 the other day repainted into the new orange and yellow. I actually thought was Colas Rail, and was surprised to find out it was Freightliner. I thought at the time, "What a mistake! Let's be revolutionary and look like one of our competitors instead of evolving the brand - because that's such a good idea!"




Thameslink.

The name is good, but I think what is being conveyed is that what at first looked like joined up design in terms of logo, was then rather needlessly in the eyes of some, suddenly discarded for a design which wasn't joined up, cost a lot to change, and was done for no apparent reason.

The original GTR design is here:

SomeOne Rebrands Thameslink - Logo-Designer.co

Design agency SomeOne has created new branding for the Thameslink and Great Northern train operating companies. It follows the rebranding of the South Eastern network. All part of GTR (Govia Thameslink Railway), the bid for the networks was won from First Capital Connect back in May 2014. The...

www.logo-designer.co

The later version:

View attachment 105483

Even more nonsensical is that the Great Northern logo has been kept the same, so it's not even as if both were redesigned to be in tune (or not) with each other.
When you bear in mind that Thameslink trains run into Kings Cross on Sundays and that tickets are marked Thameslink/Great Northern, and that GN Drivers work some Thameslink trains, you'd think that giving them both a common identity would be desirable - like was done to start with.

Like it was a joined up network.

But then a somewhat insipid new logo for Thameslink came along with no explanation.
That website above talks about the design of the original GTR design, but there is no announcement, promotion, or anyone in design circles talking about the newer version.

Hit or miss?
I'd call it a miss.

What a mess this all is. Its the lack of attention to detail that gets me. This is why i can't wait for the new standardised branding under GBR.

Btw the old TL logo is still up at St Pancras Intl. as well as several other locations

 

[Bletchleyite]

I saw a 66 the other day repainted into the new orange and yellow. I actually thought was Colas Rail, and was surprised to find out it was Freightliner. I thought at the time, "What a mistake! Let's be revolutionary and look like one of our competitors instead of evolving the brand - because that's such a good idea!"

Freight branding is of no interest to anyone other than enthusiasts. You choose your freight operator by going out to tender with a specification, you don't choose them because the logo looks slick. It matters for passenger services as part of the marketing approach, but not for freight.

Clearly if it looked scruffy and unmaintained then you might have concerns about reliability when reviewing tenders, but that's different from what colour it is.

I will admit I thought the same, but it's just them adopting the US parent's livery.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

I've been looking at pictures of DB Cargo locomotives on railhead treatment trains and realised that a significant number of engines are still branded as EWS.

In my opinion EWS was a very strong brand which should have been grown, but sadly the company was renamed DB Schenker which was a huge act of folly as it meant absolutely nothing in the UK. Twelve years after EWS was consigned to history, the brand is still active.

Freightliner has recently rebranded to the awful orange livery, discarding the strong green brand. GTR, a weak grey.

So, what are other members top branding and marketing disasters?

If freight companies are like here then locomotives will just wear whatever it's old owner with some stickers slapped on:

https://i.imgur.com/k8dLIn9.jpg

Simply meant cr@p trains and a cr@p service to the average passenger. And mostly in nausea-inducing eggy-yellow corporate palette. Not one of the better ToCs there's been.

Connex here just stuck to blue and yellow.

https://i.imgur.com/7jJvC8A.jpg

 

[oldgoat]

Smiley faces on Class 365s. I've no idea whether this was unintentional, or whether some marketing type leaned over the designer's shoulder and told them to make the grille smile-shaped - brighten up commuters' mornings and give the brand a positive, happy image etc.
Believe me, it's possible to want to punch a train in the face, when it turns up 30 minutes late in the sleet wearing a stupid grin.

 

[387star]

A lot of what First did was hideous
The worst offender was the regional railways 158 with a TPE stripe . The units Central put those stupid circles on is a close second.
Messing around with previous liveries rarely works well

 

[Nammer]

South Western Railway's livery. Dull, boring, dreary - Really shows the dirt and brake dust too. Just about sums up this company.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

The use of the name One by NXEA was fairly inexplicable.

I heard a suggestion at the time that, as well as the one-franchise-for-East-Anglia connotations, it was "Operated by National Express". But that may have been a backronym.

First Great Western Link anybody?

Again... kind of explicable at the time as it was meant to be a temporary "link" from the previous three-franchise setup (Thames, FGW, Wessex) to the new unified Great Western. But yes, rather an inward-facing rationale.

On which note, Greater Anglia is a terrible name: the "Greater" only makes sense as "we previously had smaller franchise areas", which is of no interest to anyone outside the industry. Frankly it always sounds a bit "Greater Germany" to me and that's not a good look.

 

[pdeaves]

In the 1990s, that usually good organisation InterCity had what I think a very poor marketing campaign. At the time, IC was aimed very squarely at the business traveller. I think it a mistake to use the Mr Men (specifically Mr Happy) to advertise the service. I get what they wanted to do ('have a happy journey with us'), but it didn't suit the target market. I feel sorry for the individual in the fuzzy Mr Happy suit that had to walk through the first class carriages trying to drum up some sort of enthusiasm from suited, working-reading-important-papers passengers.

 

[Meerkat]

On which note, Greater Anglia is a terrible name: the "Greater" only makes sense as "we previously had smaller franchise areas", which is of no interest to anyone outside the industry. Frankly it always sounds a bit "Greater Germany" to me and that's not a good look.

Or it is like Greater Manchester - ie applies to the area around Manchester not just Manchester. It also rolls better than Great Anglia, and seems more complete - Greater Anglia is a thing, whereas it would be Great Anglia what?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Or it is like Greater Manchester - ie applies to the area around Manchester not just Manchester. It also rolls better than Great Anglia, and seems more complete - Greater Anglia is a thing, whereas it would be Great Anglia what?

I certainly read it as "East Anglia plus some of the surrounding area" as per Greater Manchester. It is a bit like "Greater Germany" but doesn't carry a negative context like that does, because it's a railway service which is more useful by virtue of the fact that it covers a greater area and doesn't pack in a few tens of miles short of London, not an attempt to take over political control of places who don't want that.

"Great Anglia" would sound odd as it's indeed not a place. "Great Anglian" would just be following the common trend of saying the *railway* is great (not in size but in importance, as per the GWR, GER etc) and adding "ownership" by the area it's in, if you see what I mean.

 

[physics34]

Smiley faces on Class 365s. I've no idea whether this was unintentional, or whether some marketing type leaned over the designer's shoulder and told them to make the grille smile-shaped - brighten up commuters' mornings and give the brand a positive, happy image etc.
Believe me, it's possible to want to punch a train in the face, when it turns up 30 minutes late in the sleet wearing a stupid grin.

Ha ha calm down calm down

South Western Railway's livery. Dull, boring, dreary - Really shows the dirt and brake dust too. Just about sums up this company.

If u mention that one youve got to mention Thameslink livery. Who in hell sanctioned that