Branding and marketing blunders or failures on the railway.

[norbitonflyer]

There was a line called the 'little' North Western, I think Great or Grand sound better.

The North Western Railway ran from Skipton to Morecambe,and became part of the Midland Railway. It acquired its "Little" monilker to distinguish it from its much bigger neighbour, the (London &) North Western, the biggest joint stock company in the world at the time, which gave itself the strapline "The Premier Line" - as it had absorbed, among other early railways, the Liverpool & Manchester. (Although the North Eastern Railway, which had absorbed the Stockton & Darlington, could have made make a similar claim)

 

[Springs Branch]

I remember the old British Rail slogan "We're Getting There" being mocked in the 80's (cue "We're getting there late" jokes). . . .

Possibly around the same time, British Leyland (or was it Austin Rover by then?) had a marketing campaign based on "Now we're motoring!".
To me, both BR and BL's slogans sounded like a subtle way of saying "yes, we were c**p before, but we're trying to be a bit less c**p now - honest"

I wonder if this style of half-apologetic marketing is a peculiarly British thing?

I've spent many years living overseas and I don't remember seeing this kind of slant used anywhere else. Especially not in the home of the Masters of Marketing, the USA, and I can't imagine the Germans or French advertising in this way either.
Isn't there a saying in politics "Never apologise, never explain” (supposedly attributed to Winston Churchill, but that may well be one of those urban myths)?

 

[nlogax]

wonder if this style of half-apologetic marketing is a peculiarly British thing?

Yes, I would agree with that. Tacit acknowledgements of malaise by certain nationalised industries and a desire by them to be seen to be doing something about it but in a very understated - ie half-hearted and cheap - British way.

Whether it really worked is open to interpretation. 'We're Getting There' could be responded to with 'where and when, exactly?' And I don't believe many really bought into Austin Rover's desire to appear trendy and dynamic via the medium of TV's favourite beard advertising MG Maestros when in reality many of their existing customers were watching their SD1s or Triumph Acclaims quietly rot on their driveways.

 

[py_megapixel]

I always thought C2C was stupid, good old LTS said what it
While I am at it could we call the new thing British Railways it is not Great B R we have Scot Rail and the Welsh are doing a local branding

It would have to be English Railways surely?

 

[pdeaves]

Because it's meant to be discretely referential to the old style, not a direct recreation of it?

Yes. I remember being told at the time that 'we are not a heritage railway'.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I'd be interested to know how successful or not GWR's Famous Five marketing has been given most of the replies to tweets / Facebook posts I saw back when they were started were along the lines of "Five go nowhere fast" etc.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

In terms of brands that completely passed customers by, I think Alphaline is one of the most obscure- its astonishing how long it lasted in timetables and on the outside of trains. From what I can tell, all it meant was 'this train might have a payphone and air conditioning'!

 

[willgreen]

It would have to be English Railways surely?

Intercity services into Scotland and Wales would still be run by GBR, so not quite

 

[Dr Hoo]

In terms of brands that completely passed customers by, I think Alphaline is one of the most obscure- its astonishing how long it lasted in timetables and on the outside of trains. From what I can tell, all it meant was 'this train might have a payphone and air conditioning'!

Well; and a trolley service and an 'accessible toilet' (by the standards of the time).

There was even a group of the relevant service group managers, marketeers and so forth in Regional Railways called the 'Gold Top Group' This was quite jealous of ScotRail that already had an established ScotRail Express 'brand' and was even supposed to offer First Class.

 

[Class800]

"The first train on Platform 2 is not for public use. The First train will be the second train"

Not quite as bad as when ONE ran services to the Anglia region. Cue announcement issues at London Liverpool St such as 'Platform 10 for the 14.30 ONE service to Norwich'. It got so confusing that before long the brand name was dropped from the announcements.

 

[pdeaves]

Intercity services into Scotland and Wales would still be run by GBR, so not quite

Why not? 'Wales Rail' and ScotRail both run into England, why can't it be 'England Rail' that runs to Scotland/Wales?

 

[New York Giant]

Not such a blunder, and more a trick missed, but I always wondered why no train operator company used KLF's "Last Train to Trancentral' as its advert music. The repetition of "all aboard" and "enjoy the ride" would have surely made the viewer take notice.

KLF did delete their back catalogue in the mid-nineties and I can only assume, because of this, that the track will never be used for commercial purposes or that the royalties would have been astronomical.

 

[leytongabriel]

Silverlink... with a purple, green and yellow liverynone of it made sense lol

Yes and the pointless rebranding of what had always been known as the North London Line as the North London Link.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Yes and the pointless rebranding of what had always been known as the North London Line as the North London Link.

Surely the point of that was to indicate that the through working to Stratford and North Woolwich as part of early Docklands regeneration was distinct from the 'original' North London Line that to most people just meant Richmond-Broad Street.

(This is NOT intended to trigger a historical argument about the North London Railway.)

 

[leytongabriel]

Has anybody mentioned 'Connex' ? Pretty meaninngless for the average traveller non?

Surely the point of that was to indicate that the through working to Stratford and North Woolwich as part of early Docklands regeneration was distinct from the 'original' North London Line that to most people just meant Richmond-Broad Street.

Was it really? Escaped most of us locals I fear, the link bit seemed to be something to do with Silverlink and was a bit of a fad at the time - Marshlink in Kent etc.

 

[XAM2175]

Has anybody mentioned 'Connex' ? Pretty meaninngless for the average traveller non?

Why is that a problem? Lots of brands were 'meaningless for the average traveller' before they became established.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Has anybody mentioned 'Connex' ? Pretty meaninngless for the average traveller non?

Simply meant cr@p trains and a cr@p service to the average passenger. And mostly in nausea-inducing eggy-yellow corporate palette. Not one of the better ToCs there's been.

 

[pdeaves]

Simply meant cr@p trains and a cr@p service to the average passenger. And mostly in nausea-inducing eggy-yellow corporate palette. Not one of the better ToCs there's been.

I think the name 'Connex' wasn't the failure as such, but the reputation that followed. The colours looked remarkably like Eurostar, in my view!

 

[matt_world2004]

The Elizabeth line: not a tube line, doesn't accept tube tickets for most of the network. Name does not reflect any of the areas it goes through. Colour scheme also very similar to the Heathrow express which serves the same platform as it , but does not accept the same tickets. A receipe for confusion.

Internationally: when promoting the man in the high castle the new York subway covered some train seats in the flags of the fictionalised American reich and the imperial Japanese flag

 

[willgreen]

Why not? 'Wales Rail' and ScotRail both run into England, why can't it be 'England Rail' that runs to Scotland/Wales?

'English' services into Wales/Scotland travel far further than Scottish/Welsh services do into England. IIRC Scotrail only operate the Newcastle-Glasgow in England (and isn't that crewed by Northern east of Carlisle?) and whilst TfW do have a couple of longer-distance routes I'd imagine some of these would be altered post-GBR anyway, especially the ones out of Piccadilly.

 

[Gloster]

Internationally: when promoting the man in the high castle the new York subway covered some train seats in the flags of the fictionalised American reich and the imperial Japanese flag

Imagine what the Dailies Express, Mail and Telegraph would have said if something similar had appeared on the Tube. The Mail’s gyrations might have been particularly interesting.

 

[D6968]

I think the name 'Connex' wasn't the failure as such, but the reputation that followed. The colours looked remarkably like Eurostar, in my view!

I saw a photo of a unit with the second n removed from Connex South Central branding quite a few years ago in on of the mags, it was commented on how appropriate it was

 

[Alanko]

I gather the EWS livery was unpopular when it was introduced as it was an American livery adapted for the job.

As far as 'fails' go, I've never really liked the Railfreight sub-sector logos. They are a bit like having a map without a legend. The coal one broadly makes sense, but the rest have a whiff of letting a graphic artist have too much free reign over a simple job. In terms of overall accessibility and ease of interpretation they are a bit rotten really.

 

[Deepgreen]

A form of branding, or at least part of the branding exercise, has been the disastrous abandonment, and then piecemeal re-adoption, of first class yellow stripes, etc. These things take a long time to get into the public consciousness and so the various liveries which excluded basic passenger information served to help undo decades of work. The fact that some sense has prevailed after all, with many TOCs re-adopting it, makes the previous rush to mess around with a perfectly good principle all the more annoying.

 

[yorksrob]

I think the name 'Connex' wasn't the failure as such, but the reputation that followed. The colours looked remarkably like Eurostar, in my view!

Undefined and called in dirt was my recollection of the livery.

 

[HYPODERMIC]

Possibly around the same time, British Leyland (or was it Austin Rover by then?) had a marketing campaign based on "Now we're motoring!".
To me, both BR and BL's slogans sounded like a subtle way of saying "yes, we were c**p before, but we're trying to be a bit less c**p now - honest"

I wonder if this style of half-apologetic marketing is a peculiarly British thing?

I've spent many years living overseas and I don't remember seeing this kind of slant used anywhere else. Especially not in the home of the Masters of Marketing, the USA, and I can't imagine the Germans or French advertising in this way either.
Isn't there a saying in politics "Never apologise, never explain” (supposedly attributed to Winston Churchill, but that may well be one of those urban myths)?

I genuinely really like "we're getting there", for precisely the reason that it combines honesty, self-deprecating humour, and a pun on transport.

The alternative often seems to be meaningless, feel-good, desperately inoffensive, corporate nonsense like "believe in better" (Sky), "I'm loving it" (McDonalds), "the future is exciting" (Vodafone).

It's the same thing with politicians; as soon as they admit their mistakes or give an honest opinion, they're hounded relentlessly, and quickly revert to the fudge and waffle speak.

 

[adamello]

It's the same thing with politicians; as soon as they admit their mistakes or give an honest opinion.

When does that happen?

 

[Stigy]

Northern’s brand always struck me as bizarre. The large lowercase ‘n’ to me, resembled a sad face. It’s everything a brand shouldn’t be, surely?

 

[py_megapixel]

Northern’s brand always struck me as bizarre. The large lowercase ‘n’ to me, resembled a sad face. It’s everything a brand shouldn’t be, surely?

I think we only say that because the brand has been tainted by Northern being awful. Same with Connex really.

If Northern's franchise plans had worked, people would be talking about the effectiveness of their simple no-nonsense appearance.

 

[Stigy]

I think we only say that because the brand has been tainted by Northern being awful. Same with Connex really.

If Northern's franchise plans had worked, people would be talking about the effectiveness of their simple no-nonsense appearance.

To be honest I’d never looked at it that way. I’ve no experience with Northern as a TOC, although I’ve heard about them. I just think whatever the TOC, it’s bad branding.