When Will It All Go Wrong For The Tories/ Johnson?

[birchesgreen]

Good news they've finally kept their promise to get rid of unelected bureaucrats ruling over us.

 

[YorkshireBear]

His reasons also include net zero policies. Glad to see back of him he is vile! Wonder what the EU think!

 

[Gloster]

If it is true, then whoever Johnson chooses as his replacement will be an indicator of how he intends to tackle the current chaos. If, indeed, it is Johnson who chooses or other(s) who push their choice on him. Will the new Brexit minister be someone who tackles the negotiations in a measured fashion to find the best agreement for the country? Or will it be a sop to please a handful of hardline back-benchers?

 

[Meglodon 5]

If he chooses Priti Patel though, we're all truly ****ed. (sorry for the extreme language, but its worth it when describing Patel)

 

[birchesgreen]

If he chooses Priti Patel though, we're all truly ****ed. (sorry for the extreme language, but its worth it when describing Patel)

I dunno, i'd find that pretty funny plus it would be a poisoned challis to destroy her career. What's not to like?

 

[yorksrob]

His reasons also include net zero policies. Glad to see back of him he is vile! Wonder what the EU think!

I'm genuinely disappointed that the net zero policies are amongst his reasons.

I can see his point on covid policy though.

 

[MattRat]

I dunno, i'd find that pretty funny plus it would be a poisoned challis to destroy her career. What's not to like?

Who hasn't had their career ruined as PM?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Who hasn't had their career ruined as PM?

Churchill.

 

[Cowley]

Churchill.

Fair enough, but I’m struggling to think of any others and his was a particularly extraordinary situation.

 

[brad465]

The contents of a WhatsApp group of Tory MPs called "Clean Global Brexit" has got out, and the highlight by far is "Steve Baker removed Nadine Dorries":

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1472331053775958016

EXC - big row in a Tory Whatsapp “Clean Global Brexit” group with over 100 MPs It leads leads to removal of Nadine Dorries after she defending the PM … and then Steve Baker declaring “enough is enough” Exchanges here:

The fact he removed her after she defended Johnson tells us all we need to know about how he's viewed in his party right now.

"You have no authority Steve Baker, no authority at all!"

 

[LOL The Irony]

Fair enough, but I’m struggling to think of any others and his was a particularly extraordinary situation.

People who resigned of their own accord and left front line politics at the same time, such as Thatcher and Cameron. Brown ruined his career by his actions as Chancellor and his gaffe filled 2010 campaign trail.

 

[yorksrob]

Who hasn't had their career ruined as PM?

Churchill.

To be fair, Churchill received the order of the boot in 1945. He came back though,

 

[birchesgreen]

Who hasn't had their career ruined as PM?

I thought we were talking about Brexit minister for Priti Awful?

I wonder if the likes of Sunak have put down "a stalking horse" in their letters to Santa?

 

[nlogax]

Couldn't give a damn whether Frost's stated reasons are valid or not. I'm just assuming he disagreed with the terms and conditions of his employment contract for which he personally negotiated.

 

[oldman]

People who resigned of their own accord and left front line politics at the same time, such as Thatcher and Cameron. Brown ruined his career by his actions as Chancellor ...

Someone's got his true-blue spectacles on. Cameron quit because of his failure to win the Brexit referendum, and his reputation has not been helped by the Greensill scandal. Brown was well-regarded as Chancellor but lost as PM because of the economic crash.

 

[Typhoon]

If it is true, then whoever Johnson chooses as his replacement will be an indicator of how he intends to tackle the current chaos. If, indeed, it is Johnson who chooses or other(s) who push their choice on him. Will the new Brexit minister be someone who tackles the negotiations in a measured fashion to find the best agreement for the country? Or will it be a sop to please a handful of hardline back-benchers?

Isn't Alok Sharma effectively at a loose end? He would be no good but would cause minimum disruption to the rest of government, they had a major reshuffle earlier in the year.

If it is ministers who are actually quite able, Ben Wallace? If we want (diplomatic) WWIII, Patel who thinks diplomacy means she tells you what will happen.

PMs whose reputation survived their premiership, the best I can come up with is Baldwin, who managed to avoid being PM during the Wall Street Crash, and, controversially, Atlee, whose positives out weigh the negatives at the end and whose failures were largely in foreign policy (and were 'no-wins') which does not interest the Great British Public.

 

[bavvo]

People who resigned of their own accord and left front line politics at the same time, such as Thatcher and Cameron. Brown ruined his career by his actions as Chancellor and his gaffe filled 2010 campaign trail.

Thatcher didn't resign of her own accord. She was forced out by a stalking horse challenge and a long queue of her own ministers all told her she had to go after the chaos of the poll tax. She famously wanted to go "on and on". Cameron resigned after leading the remain side to defeat in his own referendum, despite promising to see it through whichever way it went.

 

[Gloster]

Thatcher didn't resign of her own accord. She was forced out by a stalking horse challenge and a long queue of her own ministers all told her she had to go after the chaos of the poll tax. She famously wanted to go "on and on". Cameron resigned after leading the remain side to defeat in his own referendum, despite promising to see it through whichever way it went.

In the end wasn’t it Dennis who said ‘time to go.’ One of the few people she would listen to.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Cameron quit because of his failure to win the Brexit referendum

Cameron resigned after leading the remain side to defeat in his own referendum, despite promising to see it through whichever way it went.

Still didn't have his career ruined.

Thatcher didn't resign of her own accord. She was forced out by a stalking horse challenge and a long queue of her own ministers all told her she had to go after the chaos of the poll tax. She famously wanted to go "on and on".

I'll give you Thatcher as I couldn't remember correctly. I do know she survived a vote of no confidence.

and his reputation has not been helped by the Greensill scandal.

Which came out long after his resignation.

Someone's got his true-blue spectacles on.

The question was who's not had their career ruined as PM, not who did you like as PM, but go on.

Brown was well-regarded as Chancellor but lost as PM because of the economic crash.

His actions helped lead to the crash. As I said, his was mostly done outside of being the leader. It appears you have your red tinted specs on.

 

[brad465]

The story about Dorries getting kicked out of that WhatsApp group is now the most read article on the BBC site, so plenty will now be aware of internal party rumblings:

Nadine Dorries ousted from Conservative WhatsApp group for praising PM

The culture secretary was kicked out after calling on MPs to show "a bit of loyalty" to Boris Johnson.

www.bbc.co.uk

Culture Secretary Nadine Dorries has been kicked out of a Conservative WhatsApp group after urging MPs to show the prime minister "a bit of loyalty".
Messages shot around the "Clean Global Brexit" group - made up of over 100 Tory MPs - following the resignation of Brexit Minister Lord Frost on Saturday.
After claims his exit was a "disaster" and a "hammer blow" for Boris Johnson, Ms Dorries called the PM "a hero".
But former minister Steve Baker removed her, saying: "Enough is enough."
The prime minister is facing growing criticism from a section of his backbenches, especially over the introduction of further Covid measures to tackle the Omicron variant.
He faced the biggest rebellion of his premiership on Tuesday when 100 of his own MPs voted down Plan B restrictions for England, including the introduction of Covid passports for certain venues.
But the measures passed after Labour decided to vote in favour of the plan.
Since then, the UK has reported days of record breaking case numbers, with Saturday's coming in at 90,418.
And despite upset from his own party, Health Secretary Sajid Javid refused to rule out further Covid restrictions, telling the BBC's Andrew Marr programme there were "no guarantees in this pandemic".

On Saturday night, the resignation of Lord Frost - who had planned to leave in January - was leaked to the Mail on Sunday, speeding up his departure from government.
In his letter to the PM, he highlighted his "concerns about the current direction of travel" in No 10, and warned Mr Johnson "not be tempted by the kind of coercive measures we have seen elsewhere" to tackle coronavirus.
Tory MPs began reacting to the news in the WhatsApp group, calling Lord Frost a "hero" and saying his views were echoed by most of the party's MPs.
But Ms Dorries - who was promoted to cabinet in the last reshuffle - responded by saying: "The hero is the prime minister who delivered Brexit."
She added: "I'm aware as someone said today that regicide is in the DNA of [the] Conservative Party, but a bit of loyalty to the person who won an 83 [seat] majority and delivered Brexit wouldn't go amiss."
Her colleague Conor Burns said she was "absolutely right", adding: "Memory seems to be very short."
But before his post had even come through, Mr Baker removed Ms Dorries from the group, with another MP thanking him for the move.
He said there were two "critical" reasons for Mr Johnson's large win in the December 2019 election - his Brexit deal being rejected by Parliament and the fact "someone (ahem) but not him persuaded [Nigel] Farage not to run against incumbents".
But Mr Baker urged other members not to argue, posting: "We have troubles enough in our immediate future."

 

[Busaholic]

So D. Frost has left the building, leaving a large puddle in his wake. A fitting legacy, I feel.

 

[bavvo]

Still didn't have his career ruined.

He was a career politition, his career ended abruptly the day result was announced. He bet everything on winning that referendum and putting the Europe issue to bed, and would have remained PM if that had happened. Instead he disappeared without trace.

I'll give you Thatcher as I couldn't remember correctly. I do know she survived a vote of no confidence.

She actually won the first round of the leadership challenge, but not by a big enough margin to prevent a second vote, which lead to the awkward conversations with her cabinet colleagues (and possibly Dennis too).

To get back to the earlier question, did Harold Wilsons career end in success? Didn't it turn out that he resigned due to heath issues (Alzeheimers?), rather than any particular policy failure, although I believe the health issues were concealed at the time.

 

[LOL The Irony]

He was a career politition, his career ended abruptly the day result was announced. He bet everything on winning that referendum and putting the Europe issue to bed, and would have remained PM if that had happened.

I mean, there was nothing preventing him from staying in the job, he just chose to rage quit. As you said earlier, he had previously stated he'd stay on no matter what.

 

[Ediswan]

Who hasn't had their career ruined as PM?

Harold Wilson didn't do too badly.

 

[birchesgreen]

Harold Wilson didn't do too badly.

No his KGB career ended.

 

[Butts]

Harold Wilson didn't do too badly.

The same Harold Wilson that smoked a Pipe Publicly but behind closed doors enjoyed Cognac and Cigars.

Unlike Heath, Callaghan, Healey and many more of that diaspora he didn't see active service during the war, as he was a Civil Servant for the duration.

 

[Typhoon]

To get back to the earlier question, did Harold Wilsons career end in success? Didn't it turn out that he resigned due to heath issues (Alzeheimers?), rather than any particular policy failure, although I believe the health issues were concealed at the time.

I would say you were right about health issues, but there were economic difficulties - rising inflation, unemployment, interest rates (the reason I remember - I was trying to get a mortgage), they got worse under Callaghan. Didn't we have to go to the IMF?

His resignation honours list (which pales compared to recent honours lists) was considered controversial at the time. Basically, he stayed on a bit too long (like most).

 

[SteveM70]

Oh my days, Liz Truss has got the gig.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Oh my days, Liz Truss has got the gig.

Yep

Liz Truss replaces Lord Frost in post-Brexit talks

The foreign secretary will become the UK's lead negotiator with the EU over the Northern Ireland Protocol.

www.bbc.co.uk

Foreign Secretary Liz Truss will replace Lord Frost as the UK's lead negotiator with the EU in post-Brexit talks.
She will retain her role as foreign minister alongside the new post leading negotiations over the Northern Ireland Protocol.
It follows the resignation of Lord Frost as Brexit minister on Saturday.
MP Chris Heaton-Harris will become Minister of State for Europe, Downing Street said.
Mr Heaton-Harris will be replaced at the transport department by Wendy Morton, who was previously at the Foreign Office.
Conservative MPs are split over the resignation of Lord Frost, after he resigned citing "concerns about the current direction of travel" of the government.
The peer told Prime Minister Boris Johnson he had concerns over Covid policy, urging him to avoid introducing "coercive measures".
Some Tory backbench MPs who share Lord Frost's views described his exit as a "disaster".
But others in the party said it offered a chance to "press the reset button" in negotiations with the EU.

 

[Typhoon]

Oh my days, Liz Truss has got the gig.

Maybe Johnson has not given up the ghost just yet. What better way to pay back those Christmas photos of Truss pictured in a Thatcher pose than of giving her a job that Thatcher would relish and the right of the party would be convinced would win hands down. They will regard anything less than the complete rewriting of the Northern Island Protocol, no North Sea border, no concessions on fishing or agriculture, no European Court and probably a few other things as defeat. Net satisfaction rate of over 70? May not be for long - and, if it comes off, it was his inspired appointment. There is fight in Boris yet, it seems.

I reckon that there will be a few other cabinet ministers breathing a sigh of relief.