alistairlees
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They won’t. Rail Sale advances won’t be available on most flows that have advances, in fact.
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Great Ticket Sale courtesy of Grant Shapps
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Mcr Warrior
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Autocorrect offline presumably?
Guess that 'agilabkw' should have read as 'available'?
But what's 'trumies'?
Goodness they've finally got some out! I'm old enough to remember them saying that they would in 2014
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
BRFares lists dummy Rale Sale fares for TfW flows (eg Chester/Manchester-Cardiff/Holyhead), so they seem to be participating in the DfT scheme.
I also looked at Glasgow-Aberdeen but the only dummy Sale fare was LNER-only.
Presumably that's only on the one early/late Glasgow-Edinburgh service with LNER connection from there to Aberdeen.
Glasgow-Dundee has both LNER-only and XC-only fares, presumably via Edinburgh.
No Scotrail fares, so it looks like they are not participating in the DfT scheme.
Liverpool/Manchester-Sheffield have separate EMR-only and TP-only fares, but no Northern fares.
I also looked at Glasgow-Aberdeen but the only dummy Sale fare was LNER-only.
Presumably that's only on the one early/late Glasgow-Edinburgh service with LNER connection from there to Aberdeen.
Glasgow-Dundee has both LNER-only and XC-only fares, presumably via Edinburgh.
No Scotrail fares, so it looks like they are not participating in the DfT scheme.
Liverpool/Manchester-Sheffield have separate EMR-only and TP-only fares, but no Northern fares.
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I'm sorry, I'm really struggling to keep up here - where in general are you suggesting that they will or won't be found?
Separately, I'm also interested to see what c2c are proposing to offer as part of this.
alistairlees
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Rail Sale Advance fares will be found only on "TOC only" and not "TOC & Connections" flows. So, no Rail Sale Advance fares from Poppleton, Cattal, Hammerton, Knaresborough, Starbeck, Hornbeam Park, Pannal, Weeton, Headingley or Burley Park to London. But they do exist from York, Harrogate and Leeds to London (I am not sure about Horsforth to London). Repeat for another hundred or so stations in Yorkshire that are not served by LNER, Hull Trains or GC. Then repeat across the country.
It's as if every TOC is doing its own micro sale and is unaware of the existence of any other TOCs.
Isn't that logical? There are already conflicts between operators about operator A's advances undercutting fares on operator B. A sale makes it even worse.
CaptainHaddock
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"Surmise"?Autocorrect offline presumably?
Guess that 'agilabkw' should have read as 'available'?
But what's 'trumies'?
Bletchleyite
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I think Trainsplit and Trainline will do well out of this, then!
If I were Trainsplit I'd push this in publicity.
alistairlees
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No, it is illogical.
Unless you are saying that it is illogical to have Advance fares from Scarborough or Knaresborough to London, and that these should be removed.
Avanti information - https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/great-british-rail-sale
Banham7
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Here: https://webcache.googleusercontent....faqs+&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari. Google cached it before it was hidden.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
It's not really a very good promotion of the Great British Railways concept, if the fares offer is just every TOC doing its own thing.
We're still waiting for some flesh to be put on the bones of GBR, but this doesn't look like being part of it.
Haywain
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Be very careful what you wish for. Especially if you are asking politicians.
LNW-GW Joint
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That very useful page has been withdrawn...
Bletchleyite
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I assume it had gone live too early. I did have a quick search and found no actual fares live yet.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
My view remains that Advances should only be offered on trains where you can reserve an actual, physical seat. Local trains, even for long journeys, are better suited to a banded walk-up fares system.
Counted places are an utter menace.
So much so that in another thread you indicated that you recently used one, saving a small amount of money?
Thank you for the link, in the last few minutes I found I could still open the link, it's very informative
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes.
Ignoring all the dross relating to LNER calling there a couple of times a day, the fares are thus:
Anytime Day: single £4.80, return £7.10
Off Peak Day: return £6.00
Advances (ignoring the LNER clutter and other dross): £2.40, £2.20, £2.00 (and there appears to be a £1.50 one in there for the "Rail Sale"). On the day I travelled, only the £2.40 appeared to be available, and was available on every train except those few continuing onto the S&C.
The obvious thing to me there is to insert an Off Peak Day Single at £3.00 and clear out all that junk.
I was hardly going to pay £4.80 for a ticket for the next train (it didn't influence which I took) when I could pay £2.40, but this is exactly the sort of pointless dross that makes the railway confusing.
The West Yorkshire EMU services are basically Merseyrail with a Yorkshire accent. We must surely agree that there would be little more ridiculous than Advances on Merseyrail, except perhaps having them on London Underground.
Google's rapid cache has grabbed the site - I'm sure that all other sites listed previously are cached too.
Yes, over these sort of distances, PAYG will take over as the fare structure and if that has single fare pricing London style, there won't be a need for short distance advance fares.
I'm a bit conflicted. I'm looking at booking an Avanti journey during the time covered by the seat sale. I can see that there are good priced advance fares for my journey available now, but I can also see that there are sale fares defined on BRFares, including one that appears to be for Standard Premium.
Are the sale fares likely to be *that much* better than current advance prices, and what are the chances that the Standard Premium sale fare is cheaper than the current advance fare plus the onboard upgrade cost?
My gut tells me I'd be better off buying now while I know a decent fare is available, rather than risking that to chase something that may not match the hype. Anyone got the inside track on whether the Avanti sale fares will be anything special?
Are the sale fares likely to be *that much* better than current advance prices, and what are the chances that the Standard Premium sale fare is cheaper than the current advance fare plus the onboard upgrade cost?
My gut tells me I'd be better off buying now while I know a decent fare is available, rather than risking that to chase something that may not match the hype. Anyone got the inside track on whether the Avanti sale fares will be anything special?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Buy now then get a voucher refund under "buy with confidence" and rebook if it's cheaper later?
Good call
alistairlees
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Well, according to the Avanti web page before it was taken down, London to Manchester will be £23 and London to Liverpool will be £17.
But:
- don't expect these on trains that would be otherwise busy
- there are no Avanti Rail Sale fares on certain dates: "29 April 2022 – 03 May 2022 across all Avanti West Coast Services and 14 May 2022 and 22 May 2022 from London Euston to Liverpool and Manchester only." according to the Avanti website (now removed)
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Mcr Warrior
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Not overly enthused with how you're selling this to me, so far!
Not a great fan of the inflexibility of advance tickets, but I'm sure that the promotion will appeal to someone.
"5. The following travel exclusion dates will apply:
29 April 2022 – 03 May 2022 across all Avanti West Coast Services and 14 May 2022 and 22 May 2022 from London Euston to Liverpool and Manchester only."
If I'm not mistaken, this mean that during those times there's going to be no fares available (Engineering works / bank holiday / half term) but all other dates are available.
Haywain
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14 May is the FA Cup Final which undoubtedly affects one of those cities.
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