matchmaker
Established Member
Can anyone shed light on what class 27s had the recess for the Mansons tablet catcher, or did they all?
D5347 to D5368 were built for ScR, these became 27001 to 27022 in new money.Las 27’s build for Scr had sliding side windows to accommodate tablet catching apparatus below. Whist those built for other regions had droplight windows. Class 26 were the same.
The only loco here that is not in the original ScR series is 27104, or is that a typo for 27014?PS: Just confirmed 27006 still had the recess's until the end, noted in a sorry state on ED in June 76. Other random examples (dates) with recess's still in place: 5365 (1972), 27104 (1975), 5355 (1971), 5369 (1971), 5360 (1966), 5361 (1968), 5354 (1968), 5351 (1971), 27009 (1974), 27016 (1975)
Those with recess' blanked over (or tablets catchers never fitted?); 5396 (in its early blue days), 5402 (1971), 27025, 5408 (1969), 5410 (1969). Three of these, the D54xx's still in green, which does suggest some of the later examples were never fitted?
Bit of a mixed bag as I say!
Had forgotten that. A very good way of identifying those that either did or had previously had TCs fitted. I did make a note of the different batches as built a year or so ago (for modelling purposes) but lost the note!sliding side windows to accommodate tablet catching apparatus below
That one, as with some of the others I list, taken from a picture in the Bradford Barton Book 'BR Diesels in the Highlands', page 9. As per the caption, but the train in view is a way off. Loco definitely has a TC recess, but the number can't quite be made out - so it may be a typo, but in the book!The only loco here that is not in the original ScR series is 27104, or is that a typo for 27014?
What about Stranraer to Ayr, exchanging tablets at places like Dunragit, Glenwhilly and Pinwherry?I believe that latterly the exchangers were only used on the Highland main line, which was only class 24 and 26 locos; the other Scottish nonstop single line was Dumfries to Stranraer, which was closed by the late 1960s, and the other single line routes, like the class 27s West Highland home territory, stopped at all stations so didn't need them.
Given that was all 126 DMUs from 1959 and those DMUs had no tablet exchange apparatus, I presume manual exchange was the norm.What about Stranraer to Ayr, exchanging tablets at places like Dunragit, Glenwhilly and Pinwherry?
Slight correction: D5347 to D5369 (later 27 001 to 27 023) were built for the ScR and had recesses for the token catchers, but they were never fitted.D5347 to D5368 were built for ScR, these became 27001 to 27022 in new money.
D5369 to D5368 were built for NER, D5369 to D5415 were built for LMR.
And indeed, remains so (excluding Pinwherry, of course).Given that was all 126 DMUs from 1959 and those DMUs had no tablet exchange apparatus, I presume manual exchange was the norm.
Thank you for the comprehensive detail. I'll save that for future reference. Felt sure such info would have been out 'in print' somewhere, but as yet can't locate anything. Slightly OT, but this sort of detail is good for those in to model railways - cough! - and I do have a spare Bachmann 24/1 which is due to have some DIY body surgery below the drivers side windows at some stage, and the associated window change of pattern. Unless anyone from Bachmann plc is watching........Slight correction: D5347 to D5369 (later 27 001 to 27 023) were built for the ScR
Whoops! That's what I get for checking the source that is easiest to reach not the source that is most reliable.Slight correction: D5347 to D5369 (later 27 001 to 27 023) were built for the ScR and had recesses for the token catchers, but they were never fitted.
D5370 to D5378 (later 27 024 to 27 031) were built - originally without boilers - for the NER.
I'm mystified by what you say about D5319, which was new to Hornsey in March 1959 and was one of the last to leave the GN in September 1960. It wasn't "transferred to Scotland virtually on delivery".The first 19 class 26's - D5300 to D5318 were originally built for the ER and had droplight windows and no cabside recess. The unique D5319 was transferred to Scotland virtually on delivery and modified to have sliding windows and token catchers on the driver's side, but droplight windows on the secondman's side, running in that state for most of its working life....but with the catchers latterly removed. The remaining 26s - D5320 to D5346 - were delivered to the ScR with token catchers and sliding windows. IIRC, the token catchers had all been removed by about 1968-69.
The daytime Stranraer passenger service was all DMU, but what about the sleeper, and any freight?Given that was all 126 DMUs from 1959 and those DMUs had no tablet exchange apparatus, I presume manual exchange was the norm.
I've seen exchanges dome by hand on the 156s.And indeed, remains so (excluding Pinwherry, of course).
Good point, though until the Port Road closed, I think they all went that way to Dumfries. The Port Road was double line the whole way AFAIK, so no token working.The daytime Stranraer passenger service was all DMU, but what about the sleeper, and any freight?
I believe the Dumfries-Stranraer "Port Road" line was single west of Castle Douglas, i.e. much of it. There's a more detailed description of it in that link I gave just above. It worked through two different tablet catcher systems over time.Good point, though until the Port Road closed, I think they all went that way to Dumfries. The Port Road was double line the whole way AFAIK, so no token working.
Ah well then, I thought I'd read it was all double but evidently not then, that or the book was wrong if I did indeed read that!I believe the Dumfries-Stranraer "Port Road" line was single west of Castle Douglas, i.e. much of it. There's a more detailed description of it in that link I gave just above. It worked through two different tablet catcher systems over time.
Apologies....I shall draw that to the attention of my retired colleague source, who does not post on here.I'm mystified by what you say about D5319, which was new to Hornsey in March 1959 and was one of the last to leave the GN in September 1960. It wasn't "transferred to Scotland virtually on delivery".
Yes....it was double from Dumfries to Castle Douglas, plus the short section from Dunragit to Castle Kennedy....although I believe that the latter may have only been doubled during WW2 to cope with the military traffic to and from the new branch to Cairnryan. As always, happy to be corrected if anyone knows differently.Ah well then, I thought I'd read it was all double but evidently not then, that or the book was wrong if I did indeed read that!
Whilst acknowledging West Highland passenger trains called at all stations, it is worth noting there were more freight trains than passenger trains on the West Highland. For the freights, often with lengthy non stop runs such as Fort William to Tyndrum Upper, the use of tablet catchers could have been useful although given most signalboxes were located on island platforms this would have required a tablet catcher on the secondmans side - or equipment on the drivers side which would require the the signaller to cross the line to access.and the other single line routes, like the class 27s West Highland home territory, stopped at all stations so didn't need them.
During late September/early October the Inverness based Type 2’s visited St Rollox workshops for the fitting of tablet catcher equipment for use on those lines radiating out of Inverness
....although D5316/7/8 never received either the token exchanger recesses or their contents.with D5316-9 briefly joining in 1966
Presumably they were all fitted by then
David L Smith, inevitably, in his classic books about the G&SWR (I can quote this in a Scottish thread without it being off-topic) has of course a number of wonderful anecdotes about the use of tablets at various moments, some of which were on the Port Road. The Manson catchers had fallen into disuse on this line apparently by 1939, but it was re-equipped during WW2 with Bryson's equipment, same as was on Girvan to Stranraer, because of the substantially increased wartime services being run over it. It was originally fitted with a different system because, being jointly-owned by G&SWR and Caledonian, who rotated the engineering responsibility between them every 7 years, the Manson system was installed during one of the Caledonian tenures, as they had already used it on the Oban line. Must have been a nuisance for Stranraer shed to have two different systems to fit to G&SWR locomotives, although the fitters, plus a few spanners, could install or remove one in quick order.Ah well then, I thought I'd read it was all double but evidently not then, that or the book was wrong if I did indeed read that!
Few minutes of film here, including single line sections.Ah well then, I thought I'd read it was all double but evidently not then, that or the book was wrong if I did indeed read that!
A very scenic and interesting line....and a great loss to the Scottish network. Note the newly-lifted Whithorn branch and disused locomotive depot on the left as the train departs from Newton Stewart. Many thanks for posting the video.Few minutes of film here, including single line sections.