EMR Class 170 updates

[Mugby]

As someone who isn't familiar with numerical indications, I've travelled on the ex-Scottish ones which are quite easy to recognise with their interiors, also the ex-WM ones which are even easier to know with their predominantly green interiors.

However, last week on a Newark to Crewe service, I got a 2-car set which had dark grey upholstery with small, light grey horizontal bars as a pattern.
In addition, it had red carpets throughout. Where would that set have come from?

 

[liamf656]

As someone who isn't familiar with numerical indications, I've travelled on the ex-Scottish ones which are quite easy to recognise with their interiors, also the ex-WM ones which are even easier to know with their predominantly green interiors.

However, last week on a Newark to Crewe service, I got a 2-car set which had dark grey upholstery with small, light grey horizontal bars as a pattern.
In addition, it had red carpets throughout. Where would that set have come from?

That one is 170273, ex Anglia and more recently (albeit briefly) TFW. It’s a one of a kind at the moment however it’s expected that the rest of the TFW 170s will come and join it at EMR, some are two far and some three

 

[Andy Pacer]

The journey hasn’t begun yet so it could still be 170638, albeit at a later date/time

If it was going to be 638, it would have been parked up at Tyseley not New Street considering it was meant to have departed an hour and a half ago…

170638 not yet moved, just passed me at Syston.

 

[170UTD]

Someone on Facebook the other day said that 171201 - 171202/171401 - 171402 are due off lease from GTR "immediately" and that EMR are due to get both the converted ex-scot rail 171s and the TfW 170s. Can anyone confirm this, as I thought the 171 weren't coming anymore?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Someone on Facebook the other day said that 171201 - 171202/171401 - 171402 are due off lease from GTR "immediately" and that EMR are due to get both the converted ex-scot rail 171s and the TfW 170s. Can anyone confirm this, as I thought the 171 weren't coming anymore?

I reckon they’re wrong, but to be honest the Uckfield line is always so heavily reduced that it wouldn’t surprise me.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Someone on Facebook the other day said that 171201 - 171202/171401 - 171402 are due off lease from GTR "immediately" and that EMR are due to get both the converted ex-scot rail 171s and the TfW 170s. Can anyone confirm this, as I thought the 171 weren't coming anymore?

171201, 202, 401 and 402 are indeed coming to EMR at some point this year.

 

[LowLevel]

They're correct, EMR are now having the ex ScotRail 170s from GTR as well as the 170s from Wales.

I'd heard September quoted for the GTR ones though it could be earlier, January to May for the TfW ones which have been pushed back.

 

[RailWonderer]

Does GTR plan on having permanent short forms of 2 and 4 car trains for the Uckfield line then? That won't be popular on weekends.

 

[fgwrich]

They're correct, EMR are now having the ex ScotRail 170s from GTR as well as the 170s from Wales.

I'd heard September quoted for the GTR ones though it could be earlier, January to May for the TfW ones which have been pushed back.

I’m not surprised they’re coming across to EMR - it rather makes sense to keep them all together, and by all accounts, they don’t seem to be the most reliable or well regarded at Southern.

Though ironically, they’ll probably be the best condition Turbostars in the fleet - even if, all EMR had to do to undo that, was lift the Southern seat covers off the ScotRail ones

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

Is the 171/7 and 8 going as well to EMR?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I’m not surprised they’re coming across to EMR - it rather makes sense to keep them all together, and by all accounts, they don’t seem to be the most reliable or well regarded at Southern.

Though ironically, they’ll probably be the best condition Turbostars in the fleet - even if, all EMR had to do to undo that, was lift the Southern seat covers off the ScotRail ones

I assume they'll have the couplers changed back to be compatible with the Welsh and direct Scottish units?

Then again it is Abellio, so maybe that's being overly charitable!

 

[Roger B]

I assume they'll have the couplers changed back to be compatible with the Welsh and direct Scottish units?

Then again it is Abellio, so maybe that's being overly charitable!

And if couplers changed, probably renumbered back into 170 series ..... although given their 171 formations, some could well be issued 'new' 170 numbers.

 

[JonathanH]

Does GTR plan on having permanent short forms of 2 and 4 car trains for the Uckfield line then? That won't be popular on weekends.

When have Southern ever run more that 4 car services on the Uckfield line at the weekend? Longer formations during the week but not at the weekend.

It is pretty clear that EMR have more use for the former Scottish units than Southern do.

 

[ABB125]

Are they going to be reformed into 4x3car units, or kept at 2x2car and 2x4car?

 

[RailWonderer]

When have Southern ever run more that 4 car services on the Uckfield line at the weekend? Longer formations during the week but not at the weekend.

It is pretty clear that EMR have more use for the former Scottish units than Southern do.

If they were only used as peak extras and not at weekends then it is possible they have more 171s than they need. I don't want any excuses not to have 170s on the Norwich Liverpool or double 158s at the very least. They still regularly use 156s on that route.

 

[43102EMR]

If they were only used as peak extras and not at weekends then it is possible they have more 171s than they need. I don't want any excuses not to have 170s on the Norwich Liverpool or double 158s at the very least. They still regularly use 156s on that route.

Was going to say - if this isn’t wibble EMR best have plans to put them on the Norwich - Liverpool route.

 

[LowLevel]

It's not wibble and they will be 4 x 3 car formations.

156s resume leaving after the summer.

 

[43102EMR]

It's not wibble and they will be 4 x 3 car formations.

156s resume leaving after the summer.

Fair enough.

 

[fgwrich]

It's not wibble and they will be 4 x 3 car formations.

156s resume leaving after the summer.

Are they going to be reformed into 4x3car units, or kept at 2x2car and 2x4car?

Back to their original 170/4 numbers with without a doubt. It makes more sense for EMR to have them that way (standardised fleet) and it won’t take them much to “convert” / “reconfigure” back.

 

[43102EMR]

Back to their original 170/4 numbers with without a doubt. It makes more sense for EMR to have them that way (standardised fleet) and it won’t take them much to “convert” / “reconfigure” back.

Provided there are no issues once the switch back to BSI occurs…

 

[TheBigD]

Origionally EMR were to receive 99 x 170 vehicles comprising of 11 x 3 car and 33 x 2 car.

Now looks like they'll get 105 x vehicles comprising of 17 x 3 car and 27 x 2 car.

So same number of 170s but 6 extra vehicles overall, 6 x 3 car more vice 6 x 2 car less.

Not a bad result for the East Midlands all things considered.

Plus whatever 158s needed for Liverpool-Nottingham.
Is it still the plan to split the Liverpool-Norwich route?

 

[43102EMR]

Origionally EMR were to receive 99 x 170 vehicles comprising of 11 x 3 car and 33 x 2 car.

Now looks like they'll get 105 x vehicles comprising of 17 x 3 car and 27 x 2 car.

So same number of 170s but 6 extra vehicles overall, 6 x 3 car more vice 6 x 2 car less.

Not a bad result for the East Midlands all things considered.

Plus whatever 158s needed for Liverpool-Nottingham.
Is it still the plan to split the Liverpool-Norwich route?

They were originally due 40 - 5 from SR, 23 from WMR and 12 from Southern. So a unit gain of 4 with the 12 from TfW and now the additional 4 from Southern.

 

[TheBigD]

They were originally due 40 - 5 from SR, 23 from WMR and 12 from Southern. So a unit gain of 4 with the 12 from TfW and now the additional 4 from Southern.

Incorrect.

They were due to receive what I quoted.
170416-420 (3 car), 170501-517, 170630-635 (reduced to 2 car) and 16 x 171 ex Southern reformed to 6 x 3 car and 10 x 2 car 170s.

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[43074]

They're correct, EMR are now having the ex ScotRail 170s from GTR as well as the 170s from Wales.

I'd heard September quoted for the GTR ones though it could be earlier, January to May for the TfW ones which have been pushed back.

September is correct for the GTR 4, coincides with a new timetable on GTR and the remainder of the 171s reformed as 3 cars.

 

[JonathanH]

September is correct for the GTR 4, coincides with a new timetable on GTR and the remainder of the 171s reformed as 3 cars.

The maths doesn't work on that for Southern. Presumably it would be 12 3-car units and 4 2-cars if there were to be a Southern reformation programme.

 

[43102EMR]

Incorrect.

They were due to receive what I quoted.
170416-420 (3 car), 170501-517, 170630-635 (reduced to 2 car) and 16 x 171 ex Southern reformed to 6 x 3 car and 10 x 2 car 170s.

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They were due 12 from Southern, not 16. The sources confirming this are also available via a quick website search…

 

[43055]

170638 might have come over?

Realtime Trains | 508G 1436 Tyseley L.M.D. to Etches Park Sdgs | 09/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 508G 1436 departure from Tyseley L.M.D. to Etches Park Sdgs on 09/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[TheBigD]

They were due 12 from Southern, not 16. The sources confirming this are also available via a quick website search…

Again, simply untrue. 40 units were not enough for the increased services EMR were to introduce. 38 units needed from the fleet of 44.

I suspect you are ignoring the 4 ex scotrail 170s which went to southern (converted to 171s) which were to have gone to EMR in addition to the 171s already with Southern that would have transferred to EMR.

 

[tramdan]

171201, 202, 401 and 402 are indeed coming to EMR at some point this year.

What is the actual source for this information? I’ve seen this banded about a lot, but never with any kind of substantiation. On the other hand I travel regularly on the Uckfield line and it’s clear there is little capacity for a reduction in the fleet. Peak time trains are extremely busy 8 cars, and to be honest they really need to go back to 10 as soon as possible.

 

[JonathanH]

Peak time trains are extremely busy 8 cars, and to be honest they really need to go back to 10 as soon as possible.

Or people travelling between London Bridge and East Croydon need to be encouraged somehow to use Thameslink trains rather than Southern ones. Ideally the peak Uckfield trains from London Bridge would be made pick up only at East Croydon (and possibly Oxted).

Allowing passengers between London Bridge and East Croydon to travel on diesel trains is an expensive luxury, not to mention unnecessary pollution, when they are more needed on EMR.