When Will It All Go Wrong For The Tories/ Johnson?

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Somehow I don't think a number of core small state Tory supporters will like this front page tomorrow:

In politics, you expect the party in power to be the recipient of newspaper adverse comment, but has that not been the case for eons? The phrase "water off a duck's back" suddenly springs to mind and the more mature in thought can see newspaper comment for what it really is.

What is more important to note is that unlike Her Majesty's loyal opposition, the Conservative Party is still in power with a healthy majority and given the term of office scenario, it will still be quite a long time before the next General Election is due to be called.

 

[nw1]

In politics, you expect the party in power to be the recipient of newspaper adverse comment, but has that not been the case for eons? The phrase "water off a duck's back" suddenly springs to mind and the more mature in thought can see newspaper comment for what it really is.

What is more important to note is that unlike Her Majesty's loyal opposition, the Conservative Party is still in power with a healthy majority and given the term of office scenario, it will still be quite a long time before the next General Election is due to be called.

But bearing in mind the worst effects of the economic crisis are likely be between now and the next election, that should make the Tories worried, not reassure them. In particular, the Red Wall will be increasingly vulnerable as the crisis is likely to hit harder there and people in the Red Wall will wake up and realise that Brexit wasn't the solution to all their problems that the Tories promised them in 2019.

The best chance for them to win, I think, is to ditch Johnson now, put someone like Hunt in, and call an election now. They might win, they might not win, but they'd be less likely IMO to win after we've had a year or two of the current problems.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Somehow I don't think a number of core small state Tory supporters will like this front page tomorrow:

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You're dead right . I for one was not at all happy, either about the idiotic windfall tax or about the 'party of big spending' headline (Although I am happy that the Government is doing something to help people over energy bills). And I'm not even particularly strongly an ideologically-small-state-Tory, I'm more of an efficiency-person: I tend to think small-state is better if it's possible. But at the same time, in principle, I'm quite happy to pay higher taxes IF I can see they are necessary and being put to good use. But I don't think a big state per se is something to be aimed at or to be proud of.

Having said that, I can't figure out where The Telegraph got the headline, 'Tories are now the party of big spending, says Sunak' from? I can't see anything in his Commons speech that equates to those words. IF Sunak has said something along those lines making out that a big state is in principle good, then I'd be pretty concerned - to my mind, that's the kind of ideology you expect from the left of the Labour Party, not the Tories! But I'm not quite sure if he has said that or if that headline is a misquote.

 

[Busaholic]

You're dead right . I for one was not at all happy, either about the idiotic windfall tax or about the 'party of big spending' headline (Although I am happy that the Government is doing something to help people over energy bills). And I'm not even particularly strongly an ideologically-small-state-Tory, I'm more of an efficiency-person: I tend to think small-state is better if it's possible. But at the same time, in principle, I'm quite happy to pay higher taxes IF I can see they are necessary and being put to good use. But I don't think a big state per se is something to be aimed at or to be proud of.

Having said that, I can't figure out where The Telegraph got the headline, 'Tories are now the party of big spending, says Sunak' from? I can't see anything in his Commons speech that equates to those words. IF Sunak has said something along those lines making out that a big state is in principle good, then I'd be pretty concerned - to my mind, that's the kind of ideology you expect from the left of the Labour Party, not the Tories! But I'm not quite sure if he has said that or if that headline is a misquote.

You have to take account of the Telegraph being the Tory house newspaper, and that almost every journalist and executive there know Johnson's days are numbered, so the matter of his successor is much more than idle speculation for both them and the core of their readership. Sunak is still frontrunner, apparently, as much because of the dearth of other 'suitable' candidates as any sign of his appropriateness for the highest office. The newspaper will be being very selective about the side of Sunak, and other potential candidates, they choose to portray. The jockeying has been going on for a while, but the horses aren't in their stalls yet.

 

[SteveP29]

On the other hand the BBC is bloated (so many channels...why?) and needs slimming down.

I can't understand why they brought BBC Three back to linear, it is a channel aimed at people of a certain age group, who happen not to watch TV in linear mode now, they watch it through catchup, on YouTube, by streaming, when they want, not when the schedulers decide to put it on.
Whereas BBC4 is aimed at everyone (with probably a bent on the older end of the spectrum) and Friday night (music night as I call it in our house) is a delight, a couple of episodes of TOPT, something else like OGWT, a documentary and then a live gig.
I tend not to watch much through the rest of the week, but what I do see, science, nature, history etc, all catered for, for most adult age groups.
What makes them think that adults over the age of 50 are going to actively seek out these things to watch on iPlayer? I bought my parents a smart Tv for Christmas last year, gave them our logins for NowTV, BT Sport and set up the required logins for iPlayer, ITV, All4, My5 and they've never used any of them yet.

 

[brad465]

Johnson appears to be trying to cement his position by watering down the Ministerial code:

Boris Johnson waters down ethics code and blocks new powers for watchdog

Just days after the damning Sue Gray report, Boris Johnson has watered down the punishments for breaking the ministerial code, and blocked a bid to grant his ethics advisor the power to launch his own investigations

www.mirror.co.uk

Boris Johnson has watered down the ministerial code and blocked a bid to give his ethics advisor the power to investigate him.

Just days after Sue Gray’s report slammed No10’s leadership for the “culture” that led to Partygate, the Prime Minister issued a new version of the rules for ministers - allowing ministers to break the rules without resigning.


And he dismissed calls from his ethics advisor Lord Geidt, who had asked for the power to launch investigations into behaviour independently in the wake of the Downing Street flat row.

In his introduction to the previous edition of the ministerial code, the Prime Minister said ministers must "uphold the very highest standards of propriety" - words that have been removed from the revamped edition.

The new introduction says the code should "guide my ministers on how they should act and arrange their affairs".

And the foreword no longer explicitly mentions the seven Nolan principles of public life - integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership in the public interest.

Labour's Angela Rayner said: "Boris Johnson has today rewritten his own foreword to the ministerial code, removing all reference to honesty, integrity, transparency and accountability. He is downgrading standards and debasing the principles of public life before our very eyes."

Lord Geidt told the Prime Minister his confidence had been “shaken” by the scandal over who funded the refurb of the Prime Minister’s flat, and that the episode demonstrated “insufficient regard or respect for the role of Independent Adviser.”

The Mirror understands political aides in No 10 discussed plans to strengthen Lord Geidt’s role before the publication of the Sue Gray report, but that they then had to put them to the PM to give his permission.

Today, in a long-delayed revamp of the role, the Independent Advisor on the Ministerial Code will get a proper office, staff and a website.

The Ministerial code exists for a reason and reducing its standards can lead to some concerning behaviour/decisions that have consequences on everyone, particularly the importance of leading by example. Even if one supports the governing party enough that this doesn't bother them, what if these lower standards remain in place for an alternative government who could abuse them even further?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Johnson appears to be trying to cement his position by watering down the Ministerial code:

Boris Johnson waters down ethics code and blocks new powers for watchdog

Just days after the damning Sue Gray report, Boris Johnson has watered down the punishments for breaking the ministerial code, and blocked a bid to grant his ethics advisor the power to launch his own investigations

www.mirror.co.uk

The Ministerial code exists for a reason and reducing its standards can lead to some concerning behaviour/decisions that have consequences on everyone, particularly the importance of leading by example. Even if one supports the governing party enough that this doesn't bother them, what if these lower standards remain in place for an alternative government who could abuse them even further?

Do you think that such a move could be aimed at helping Sir Keir Starmer out in his role of the Leader of Her Majesty's opposition in the event of the Durham Constabulary making a decision to issue a FPN. ?

 

[brad465]

Do you think that such a move could be aimed at helping Sir Keir Starmer out in his role of the Leader of Her Majesty's opposition in the event of the Durham Constabulary making a decision to issue a FPN. ?

Two things: firstly, does the Ministerial Code apply to the leader of the Opposition? Second, why would any Government want to help the Opposition leader out?

 

[Drogba11CFC]

But bearing in mind the worst effects of the economic crisis are likely be between now and the next election, that should make the Tories worried, not reassure them. In particular, the Red Wall will be increasingly vulnerable as the crisis is likely to hit harder there and people in the Red Wall will wake up and realise that Brexit wasn't the solution to all their problems that the Tories promised them in 2019.

The best chance for them to win, I think, is to ditch Johnson now, put someone like Hunt in, and call an election now. They might win, they might not win, but they'd be less likely IMO to win after we've had a year or two of the current problems.

You mean a locktivist? No thanks.

 

[Gloster]

Two things: firstly, does the Ministerial Code apply to the leader of the Opposition? Second, why would any Government want to help the Opposition leader out?

As far as I can see it does not apply to the leader of the Opposition. As the ultimate arbiter of the Ministerial Code is the PM, that would be wide open to abuse.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As far as I can see it does not apply to the leader of the Opposition. As the ultimate arbiter of the Ministerial Code is the PM, that would be wide open to abuse.

Thanks for that clarification. For some unknown reason, I thought the positional role of Leader of the Opposition had a special involvement by the nature of that very office.

 

[brad465]

Story now in The Times and some other outlets:

Boris Johnson changes ministerial code so rule-breakers can avoid sack

Boris Johnson has weakened the rules on standards in government so that ministers found guilty of breaking the ministerial code will no longer be expected to re

www.thetimes.co.uk

Boris Johnson has weakened the rules on standards in government so that ministers found guilty of breaching the ministerial code will no longer be expected to resign.

The prime minister, who is himself facing an investigation into whether he misled parliament, has issued an updated version of the code and removed sections warning ministers not to bully staff or have conflicts of interest.

Continued...

 

[yorksrob]

That's actually quite a good point. Interesting to know if any consideration was ever made about this at the top.

Is there still a deputy prime minister previously John Prescott, Nick Clegg).

Presumably they ought to be the one absent from the PM strategically.

 

[nw1]

You mean a locktivist? No thanks.

Quite frankly, anyone is better than that power-freak Johnson. In the light of the rule-changes story above, it's time the parliamentary Conservative Party grew a backbone and removed him - irrespective of what the chances of winning the next election are or who the alternative might be.

 

[Gloster]

Is there still a deputy prime minister previously John Prescott, Nick Clegg).

Presumably they ought to be the one absent from the PM strategically.

Dominic Raab is the Deputy Prime Minister, although it is not really a position with much direct power. If I remember, he was given (demanded?) it as a sop when he ceased to be Foreign Secretary.

 

[nw1]

Story now in The Times and some other outlets:

Boris Johnson changes ministerial code so rule-breakers can avoid sack

Boris Johnson has weakened the rules on standards in government so that ministers found guilty of breaking the ministerial code will no longer be expected to re

www.thetimes.co.uk

He absolutely must go after this. No question.

 

[yorksrob]

Dominic Raab is the Deputy Prime Minister, although it is not really a position with much direct power. If I remember, he was given (demanded?) it as a sop when he ceased to be Foreign Secretary.

What must that have said for poor old Nick Clegg !

On a serious note, he's presumably the one who steps in if the PM is incapacitated.

 

[brad465]

He absolutely must go after this. No question.

Yes this is essentially Owen Paterson Mk2, and thankfully that backfired, which gives some hope, along with virtually all media outlets now covering this latest move.

 

[87 027]

From the Cabinet Manual:

3.11 The title of Deputy Prime Minister is sometimes given to a senior minister in the government, for example the deputy leader of the party in government or the leader of the smaller party in a coalition. The role of the Deputy Prime Minister is sometimes combined with other roles.... The fact that a person has the title of Deputy Prime Minister does not constrain the Sovereign's power to appoint a successor to a prime minister

Cabinet Manual

The Cabinet Manual sets out the main laws, rules and conventions affecting the conduct and operation of government.

www.gov.uk

 

[Busaholic]

He absolutely must go after this. No question.

In effect, he is creating a dictatorship before our eyes, with the connivance of his party including every Tory MP who doesn't submit a letter now. If he's removed as PM he'll be out of politics quicker than Cameron, no doubt to a place owned by one of his oligarch chums who owes him a big favour. Of course, he might refuse to stand down as P.M. because all the Tories can do is replace him as their leader. Will the Metropolitan Police storm Downing Street and drag him out? I can only dream!

 

[daodao]

He absolutely must go after this. No question.

Bosses have the power to change certain rules; it is one of the perks of the job. It is up to the Tory MPs to decide whether Bojo goes now; the electorate would only have a say if he is the Tory leader at the time of the next general election.

On a serious note, he's presumably the one who steps in if the PM is incapacitated.

Raab did step in when Bojo was in hospital in April 2020.

 

[wireforever]

I see are great leader was out and about again today.Wonder what he will do with all the safety jackets and other ppe he gets given perhaps it will go on ebay or appear at a car boot sale after he leaves office.

 

[Ediswan]

Bosses have the power to change certain rules; it is one of the perks of the job.

It seems that this change to the Ministerial Code was recommended by The Committee on Standards in Public Life.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...Standards_in_Public_Life_-_Web_Accessible.pdf

On page 56:

The Committee recommended to the Prime Minister in April 2021 that the Ministerial
Code should be subject to graduated sanctions, as the prior expectation that any
breach of the code should always lead to a resignation was disproportionate.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It seems that this change to the Ministerial Code was recommended by The Committee on Standards in Public Life.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...Standards_in_Public_Life_-_Web_Accessible.pdf

On page 56:

Don't let the truth ruin a good old rant.....

 

[SteveM70]

It seems that this change to the Ministerial Code was recommended by The Committee on Standards in Public Life.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...Standards_in_Public_Life_-_Web_Accessible.pdf

On page 56:

That may well be the case, but the issue is that the proposed changes make everything incredibly vague and subject to the decision of the prime minister. And how would a graduated - but undefined - sanction be decided on when the offender is the prime minister? Does he have to look in the mirror and have a stern word with himself?

 

[nw1]

Don't let the truth ruin a good old rant.....

Funny how Johnson decided to implement it right now, though.

And an honest question to those contributors who are Conservative Party supporters: do you honestly believe that Boris Johnson is a) the right person to be PM and b) the right person to lead the Conservatives into the next general election?

Is someone from the party with a bit more integrity and honesty and a bit less arrogance and ego not a better candidate?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Funny how Johnson decided to implement it right now, though.

And an honest question to those contributors who are Conservative Party supporters: do you honestly believe that Boris Johnson is a) the right person to be PM and b) the right person to lead the Conservatives into the next general election?

Is someone from the party with a bit more integrity and honesty and a bit less arrogance and ego not a better candidate?

What members of the general public think, whilst satisfying their own particular axe-grinding, actually have no control over such matters. If these people really are true to their beliefs, let them try to be put on a short list of candidates next time that either a General Election or a by-election surfaces, be chosen by the party as the candidate to stand, win the election and then take their place on the backbenches, then see how much more they then need to achieve to bring their aspiration into fruition.

 

[SteveM70]

What members of the general public think, whilst satisfying their own particular axe-grinding, actually have no control over such matters. If these people really are true to their beliefs, let them try to be put on a short list of candidates next time that either a General Election or a by-election surfaces, be chosen by the party as the candidate to stand, win the election and then take their place on the backbenches, then see how much more they then need to achieve to bring their aspiration into fruition.

It might be you trying to emulate Johnson, but you were given two simple questions and haven’t answered either of them

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It might be you trying to emulate Johnson, but you were given two simple questions and haven’t answered either of them

That puts me well up in the politician stakes, as you will have seen how politicians respond to questioning during TV interviews. There was a prime example on the BBC morning programme when Charlie Stayt was trying to get Rishi Sunak to give information live on that programme prior to it first being announced in the House of Commons.

However, at 77, I am too old to make new career in politics, but am happy to be a back-bencher on this website.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Funny how Johnson decided to implement it right now, though.

Is there any better time that he could have decided to implement it? He must've known that implementing it now would result in adverse publicity.

My immediate instinct was to think that, it probably shouldn't be the Prime Minister determining the standards, but on a quick flick-through of the recommendations, it seems the report does recommend the Prime Minister is the person who issues them, which seems to me to place the PM in a bit of a bind.

And an honest question to those contributors who are Conservative Party supporters: do you honestly believe that Boris Johnson is a) the right person to be PM and b) the right person to lead the Conservatives into the next general election?

Is someone from the party with a bit more integrity and honesty and a bit less arrogance and ego not a better candidate?

Since I must be one of the most regular Conservative supporters posting here, I guess I should answer that And to be honest, I would prefer someone else with more demonstrated integrity to be leading the party (although I'm not really sure who). That's not going to change my vote though if there was a general election tomorrow because in the end, if none of the options are perfect, then you have to vote for the least bad option, and right now one look at any of the other parties would make me want to run a mile...