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When Will It All Go Wrong For The Tories/ Johnson?

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Xenophon PCDGS

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EDIT: I assume the £200 "loan" will now, by some miraculous event, be declared as a grant that does not need to be repaid. Amazing.
Congratulations on your foresight above and it has just been announced by the Chancellor that not only does it now not be repaid over the five year period as before, but has been doubled to £400.

There were a number of other measures announced which I am pleased to see will assist the most vulnerable in society.
 
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LethalDrizzle

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If you look at the very first posting on this thread, it mentions that the Conservative Party had lost two by-elections in a row. Howsoever, at the last General Election, they had a much-increased majority from the previous General Election, so the loss of a couple of by-elections would not make as much damage as would have been the case in the previous administration.
Oh, not so sure about that. A squeaky-bum tight result in the south west and there'll be a good few Conservative MPs looking nervous, and a loss (which I find extremely unlikely) would be game on for a leadership challenge IMHO. The balance in the Commons might not change, but a collapsed majority in a true blue seat would send a message that's pretty hard to ignore for a lot MPs.

FWIW I consider myself to be mildly to the right of centre overall, somewhat more likely to vote blue than red, but also one who floats and is a long way from a guaranteed vote for any particular party. I voted Labour at the recent locals purely because I'm absolutely sick of Boris acting like a naughty teenager - lie first, then try and get away with a sorry when cornered. I simply don't trust the bloke in the sense that I don't trust politicians generally but he's on another level. I wouldn't lend him the lawn mower.

That said, IMHO, as to where it'll genuinely go wrong for the Conservatives is if Labour can find their Adult Trousers and put together a coherent set of policies that positively targets sections of society other the usual suspects - the desperately poor, dogmatists, those still in puberty, and pressure groups. That's what did it in '97 to great effect. If they can't then the "Most Egregious Miss of an Open Goal in British Politics" award, currently held by Neil Kinnock and Co. is going to be looking for a new home on Sir Keir's mantlepiece. Niffy incumbents don't just keel over because they niff, they need to be pushed out by something that's demonstrably more palatable to a good few million neither-rich-nor-poor J. Random Brits.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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It would be possible for me to date Kate Moss too but probably just as unlikely.
Kate Moss? You are setting your targets far too low....:D

That said, IMHO, as to where it'll genuinely go wrong for the Conservatives is if Labour can find their Adult Trousers and put together a coherent set of policies that positively targets sections of society other the usual suspects - the desperately poor, dogmatists, those still in puberty, and pressure groups
The overall performance of the Labour Party in the recent council elections was not something to write home about. It was the Liberal Democrats that the electorate seemed to favour.
 

DarloRich

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Amazingly, just a week ago members of the Johnson clown army/crime syndicate where whipped to vote against a windfall tax. Today they cheer the proposed introduction of such a tax. A week is a long time in politics. I just cant think what has caused yet another u-turn...............
 
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nw1

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Kate Moss? You are setting your targets far too low....:D


The overall performance of the Labour Party in the recent council elections was not something to write home about. It was the Liberal Democrats that the electorate seemed to favour.

Which should make the Tories worry a bit in the southeast. That, together with some Red Wall seats going red again, would probably be enough for the result in the next election to be very tight.

I fancy that the Tory wins in the next election will be the long-standing true-blue seats which remained Tory even in the Blair years, plus a fair tranch of Midland and southwest seats in areas of the country which appear to have veered markedly rightwards in recent times. Not sure if that's enough to maintain a majority, though.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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In terms of swing, that doesn't stand up.
Irrespective of swing, in England at the recent Council Elections, the actual Labour Party seat gain was nowhere near the loss sustained by the Conservatives. It is the number of votes rather than in increased swing percentage that wins or loses seats.

I fancy that the Tory wins in the next election will be the long-standing true-blue seats which remained Tory even in the Blair years, plus a fair tranch of Midland and southwest seats in areas of the country which appear to have veered markedly rightwards in recent times. Not sure if that's enough to maintain a majority, though.
Is it not the case that the South West has had a large Liberal Democrat following for many years?
 

Gloster

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In Tiverton & Honiton the LibDems were second up to 2010, although their vote had been declining since only just losing in 1997, while the Conservative vote was rising over the same period. In 2015 the LibDem vote plummeted and they came fourth, but they have worked back to third, with Labour a bit ahead in second. However, both are still well behind the Conservatives.

I suspect that this by-election is going to be difficult to read (unlike the tractr website). It is of interest that the Conservatives had an all-female shortlist.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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One matter sprang to my mind today was that of Universal Credit. In the early days, there were bodies working with the poor in society asking for the Government to make the application rules simpler than they were and to cut down on the information requirements, in order to make applications easier to submit. The Government said because of the nature of the problems affecting living standards that they acceded to this demand.

Now it seems that this relaxation has led to a fraud of that particular benefit in the region of between 11-13% of the total sum. It seems there are no steps that fraudsters will not revert to.
 

Howardh

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So we all get this £400 concience money payment, a day after Boozy Johnson laughed in the faces of all those who couldn't wave goodbye to their loved ones with a glass of sherry?

At least SOMETHING good's come out of Partygate.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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So we all get this £400 concience money payment, a day after Boozy Johnson laughed in the faces of all those who couldn't wave goodbye to their loved ones with a glass of sherry?

At least SOMETHING good's come out of Partygate.
Besides that, who exactly will benefit from that £650 that was referred to.

There seemed to be something also about a one-off increase in the winter fuel allowance from £300 downwards on a sliding scale for different people.
 

JamesT

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Besides that, who exactly will benefit from that £650 that was referred to.

There seemed to be something also about a one-off increase in the winter fuel allowance from £300 downwards on a sliding scale for different people.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61592496 has a summary of the various payments. The £650 appears to be for anyone who is on means-tested benefits. There doesn't seem to be any mention of payments being on any sort of scale, you're either eligible or not.
 

Shrop

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It would be possible for all the progressive parties to get together in a coalition on the basis of "implement proportional representation then call a general election". They seem to be heading that way.
Whilst I like the sound of this, I do wonder what "progressive parties" you might be thinking of.
Look at our options - firstly we would have to discount votes for SDP in Scotland, Sinn Fein and DUP in N.Ireland, and Plaid Cymru in Wales because they're focussed on their own relatively small countries, whereas 84% of the UK population lives in England so that's where the focus would need to be.
One thing that these aforementioned parties have in common is that they all have disproportionately high numbers of MPs per vote. But so do Labour and the Tories, which underlines the EXACT reason that these two big parties refuse to entertain the idea of proportional representation, even if they do pretend that it would make parliamentary voting difficult.
That leaves us with the Greens and the LibDems, but they're well known for getting sidetracked into so-called minority issues. So who else is there that you would call a progressive party? Show me a progressive party that has charismatic and strong candidates and my vote would be highly persuadable, as I'm sure many millions of disillusioned others would be too.
 

nw1

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Been looking a bit at electoralcalculus.co.uk and their predictions.

Not sure what their methodology is, or whether it's accurate, but currently they are suggesting hung parliament with Labour the largest party. Obviously that's just a snapshot of now.

Some interesting patterns in the predicted seat changes. One of the seats predicted to flip is somewhere called Uxbridge and South Ruislip. Will its incumbent stay to fight the seat or flee to a true-blue rural seat?

Interesting regional patterns in the predictions: Cannock Chase, a former Labour seat and former seat of highly-controversial Tory Aiden Burley (which you might think might put certain voters off), appears to now be a safe true-blue Tory stronghold. Contrast that to places like Crawley and Milton Keynes which are predicted to flip.

On the other hand, they are predicting Hartlepool to be Labour with a reasonable majority, that's perhaps enough to be somewhat sceptical about their model - as if it hasn't fully factored in recent swings.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Been looking a bit at electoralcalculus.co.uk and their predictions.

Not sure what their methodology is, or whether it's accurate, but currently they are suggesting hung parliament with Labour the largest party. Obviously that's just a snapshot of now.
The only problem being if the current Parliament runs full course, the next General Election will be a long way off and remembering what Harold Wlson was supposed to have said in 1964....."A week is a long time in politics".
 

Phil56

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So we all get this £400 concience money payment, a day after Boozy Johnson laughed in the faces of all those who couldn't wave goodbye to their loved ones with a glass of sherry?

At least SOMETHING good's come out of Partygate.
Not really, we'll all end up paying for it via future tax rises, future inflation, etc. Nothing is free!
 

Busaholic

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In Tiverton & Honiton the LibDems were second up to 2010, although their vote had been declining since only just losing in 1997, while the Conservative vote was rising over the same period. In 2015 the LibDem vote plummeted and they came fourth, but they have worked back to third, with Labour a bit ahead in second. However, both are still well behind the Conservatives.

I suspect that this by-election is going to be difficult to read (unlike the tractr website). It is of interest that the Conservatives had an all-female shortlist.
Neil Parish may stand again, as an Independent. If he did, he might split the Tory vote sufficiently to let the Lib Dem in.
 

Phil56

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It would be possible for all the progressive parties to get together in a coalition on the basis of "implement proportional representation then call a general election". They seem to be heading that way.

Who are these "progressive parties"? If you mean the Greens, LibDems and Scottish I don't think they're "progressive" at all.
 

bspahh

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The only problem being if the current Parliament runs full course, the next General Election will be a long way off and remembering what Harold Wlson was supposed to have said in 1964....."A week is a long time in politics".
... and Boris Johnson won't tell any more lies
 

Shrop

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In Tiverton & Honiton the LibDems were second up to 2010, although their vote had been declining since only just losing in 1997, while the Conservative vote was rising over the same period. In 2015 the LibDem vote plummeted and they came fourth, but they have worked back to third, with Labour a bit ahead in second. However, both are still well behind the Conservatives.

I suspect that this by-election is going to be difficult to read (unlike the tractr website). It is of interest that the Conservatives had an all-female shortlist.
Good luck. In my constituency of North Shropshire our female LibDem candidate showed how to kill off a massive Tory majority
:D
 

The Ham

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Something which someone on Twitter highlighted about Partygate isn't the party, but rather who was at the events.

To give a bit of background (not that we need it) at the time we were in the middle of a pandemic which had put our MP in ICU and was killing significant numbers (even if not significant percentages of those with it).

However there appeared to be no separation of people, anyone could be there. For example both Boris and Sunak were in person in the same room.

Many organisations had put in place teams so that if one team got Covid the company could carry on as the other would be able to do so (yes at much reduced capacity, but a single case couldn't wipe out the entire company).

Yet nothing similar was in place to protect the heart of government from being taken out by Covid.

Conversely, in Ukraine, they've split their government and military so that if one party gets taken out the other half can carry on.
 

Class 170101

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Hopefully this will kill off Bo Jo as well

BBC News said:

BBC to move CBBC and BBC Four online​

He added that the corporation's two news channels will be merged into one.

Reduction in scruntiny by freezing the license fee.
 

Purple Orange

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I love reading comments from those who will defend Johnson to the end. Blind loyalty is making his remaining supporters perform mental gymnastics to defend the mess he has made. It makes you wonder what he has to do for all support to vanish.
 

TheEdge

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However there appeared to be no separation of people, anyone could be there. For example both Boris and Sunak were in person in the same room.

That's actually quite a good point. Interesting to know if any consideration was ever made about this at the top.
 

Howardh

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Hopefully this will kill off Bo Jo as well

Reduction in scruntiny by freezing the license fee.
If they attack the BBC then they are....In my opinion!...attacking Brexit support. Ok it's arguable and an opinion, but if the BBC really gets upset then it's open warfare.

On the other hand the BBC is bloated (so many channels...why?) and needs slimming down.
 
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