Rail strikes discussion

[nanstallon]

But the railway chose to perpetuate the lockdown, with do not travel advice, reduced timetables, silly restrictions (no alcohol, reservations only etc) outlasting societal need, reduced catering suppressing demand, artificial reduction of capacity by having unnecessary amounts of social distancing and allowing guards half a carriage to ‘do their duties.’ So, while you are right there was a lockdown, there was also a time when the railway was deliberately deterring normal custom for no good reason. Chickens coming home to roost springs to mind. If the railway had done everything possible to facilitate revenue, your point would be valid, but the truth is the railway lagged woefully behind the rest of society in returning to normality, while devouring vast sums of taxpayers money at the same time.

I have to agree. I shall never forget going to Paignton (by car!) in summer 2020 to ride on the steam train to Kingswear (the Dartmouth Steam Railway was happy to take our custom - just had to book in advance), and hearing a loudspeaker (and I mean loud, you could almost hear it in Torquay!) announcement at the mainline station telling people not to travel unless necessary. The trouble has been that the government has disincentivised the TOCs from encouraging people to travel, by paying them a management fee regardless of whether anyone bought tickets to ride.

 

[Gems]

Sorry, but you’ll need to point me to the legislation that mandated an alcohol ban and compulsory reservations please, when other industries (and even other TOC’s) were getting back to normal. If it was DFT mandated, surely we would have seen a consistent approach? Elements of the railway continued to unnecessarily deter income post-lockdown, while hoovering up vast sums of public subsidy. That is a fact, and subsequently the railway cannot use reduced income due to the pandemic as an excuse, when it perpetuated the situation.

Umm. Some truth in this post. I'll give you a few experiences I had.

Firstly when booking office staff were refusing to handle cash. I did point out to some that app and card use on the trains had gone through the roof, they needed to be careful turning away cash transactions as they could be making their jobs obsolete. It wasn't as if they weren't hidden behind screens with a ready supply of hand wash.

Secondly. I had a rather interesting two and fro with LNER's customer relations. Basically I asked them what right had they to sell Anytime tickets at top whack when they wouldn't allow travel on any train. The guy on the other end got quite defensive.

Thirdly. Some silly mare on a GWR service between St Erth and Truro insisted me and my other half sit apart. I mean, 'Really'

So yes, I am tempted to go along with this. I don't think the railway covered itself in glory.

 

[wobman]

But the railway chose to perpetuate the lockdown, with do not travel advice, reduced timetables, silly restrictions (no alcohol, reservations only etc) outlasting societal need, reduced catering suppressing demand, artificial reduction of capacity by having unnecessary amounts of social distancing and allowing guards half a carriage to ‘do their duties.’ So, while you are right there was a lockdown, there was also a time when the railway was deliberately deterring normal custom for no good reason. Chickens coming home to roost springs to mind. If the railway had done everything possible to facilitate revenue, your point would be valid, but the truth is the railway lagged woefully behind the rest of society in returning to normality, while devouring vast sums of taxpayers money at the same time.

It's was not the railway that decided the things you mention, it was the government & its expert advisers.

 

[Sleepy]

ASLEF have announced Greater Anglia driver strike on 2nd July.

 

[Bald Rick]

Actually plenty of salaried professionals do exactly that from time to time.

yes, and don’t I know about it. However that is besides the point, I was asking the poster I was responding to if they would do so. I notice there is no reply yet.

They're even giving people who work from home it, you couldn't make it up.

evidence?

That's not what the video says at all if they don't strike they get double pay and a day off for their own job.

that is not correct, and is a highly slanted view of the video. The extra pay and day off in lieu applies to those volunteers from outside the general grades who are rostered as contingent staff

it does not apply to general grade staff who choose to break the strike.

 

[wobman]

Umm. Some truth in this post. I'll give you two experiences I had.

Firstly when booking office staff were refusing to handle cash. I did point out to some that app and card use on the trains had gone through the roof, they needed to be careful turning away cash transactions as they could be making their jobs obsolete. It wasn't as if they weren't hidden behind screens with a ready supply of hand wash.

Secondly. I had a rather interesting two and fro with LNER's customer relations. Basically I asked them what right had they to sell Anytime tickets at top whack when they wouldn't allow travel on any train. The guy on the other end got quite defensive.

So yes, I am tempted to go along with this. I don't think the railway covered itself in glory.

The staff in the booking office don't make these decisions, we were in the midst of a worldwide pandemic. The pandemic was unprecedented in modern times, a member of staff doesn't make these decisions.

Talking about not handling cash, that was the case in every place I went to during the pandemic, so it wasn't just a Railway thing.

 

[baz962]

Umm. Some truth in this post. I'll give you a few experiences I had.

Firstly when booking office staff were refusing to handle cash. I did point out to some that app and card use on the trains had gone through the roof, they needed to be careful turning away cash transactions as they could be making their jobs obsolete. It wasn't as if they weren't hidden behind screens with a ready supply of hand wash.

Secondly. I had a rather interesting two and fro with LNER's customer relations. Basically I asked them what right had they to sell Anytime tickets at top whack when they wouldn't allow travel on any train. The guy on the other end got quite defensive.

Thirdly. Some silly mare on a GWR service between St Erth and Truro insisted me and my other half sit apart. I mean, 'Really'

So yes, I am tempted to go along with this. I don't think the railway covered itself in glory.

That wasn't just the railway. Wouldn't even let me in Tesco with my other half , let alone be apart. I will see your sitting apart and raise you with being made to stand outside in the rain.

 

[windingroad]

Sorry, but you’ll need to point me to the legislation that mandated an alcohol ban and compulsory reservations please, when other industries (and even other TOC’s) were getting back to normal. If it was DFT mandated, surely we would have seen a consistent approach? Elements of the railway continued to unnecessarily deter income post-lockdown, while hoovering up vast sums of public subsidy. That is a fact, and subsequently the railway cannot use reduced income due to the pandemic as an excuse, when it perpetuated the situation.

Why do you keep referring to "the railway" as if it's the Borg? The people who are striking are not responsible for any of the things you are citing, and they should not be punished for these imaginary infractions.

 

[the sniper]

Thirdly. Some silly mare on a GWR service between St Erth and Truro insisted me and my other half sit apart. I mean, 'Really'

Without going into the rights and wrongs of it, wasn't the main theoretical issue there that if two people sat next to each other, the person in the aisle seat wasn't far enough away from the aisle or the occupiable seat on the opposite side of it? I suppose one of you could have sat on the lap of the other though...

 

[Gems]

Without going into the rights and wrongs of it, wasn't the main issue there that if two people sat next to each other, the person in the isle seat wasn't far enough away from the aisle or the occupiable seat on the opposite side of it? I suppose one of you could have sat on the lap of the other though...

Something like that. But that was the Paddington train. Then we got on a 150 down to Falmouth. Full of student types, the crew on that train didn't need the nappy changing. There was no conformity, it was a free for all.

 

[Craig1122]

Sorry, but you’ll need to point me to the legislation that mandated an alcohol ban and compulsory reservations please, when other industries (and even other TOC’s) were getting back to normal. If it was DFT mandated, surely we would have seen a consistent approach? Elements of the railway continued to unnecessarily deter income post-lockdown, while hoovering up vast sums of public subsidy. That is a fact, and subsequently the railway cannot use reduced income due to the pandemic as an excuse, when it perpetuated the situation.

I've not said there was legislation. That doesn't mean that there wasn't instruction from the Dft, for example English TOC's were specifically barred from running any kind of 'rail sale' promotion to get people back on board. Similarly most of the do not travel messaging was centrally dictated. Franchised TOC's have had a slightly longer leash than those that have migrated to NRC's which along with different interpretations of the rules probably explains the difference between TOC's.

I agree that many of these measures were either unnecessary, too heavy handed or went on too long. Although much as many on this forum, including myself, strongly dislike compulsory reservations LNER are the company that has grown back strongest despite or maybe even because of them.

Ultimately though this is what a railway operated by government department rather than an organisation with a vested interest in growing revenue looks like. And going back slightly on topic is in my opinion why it's going to be very hard for the railway to grow custom as one way of helping resolving the subsidy issue.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

would you work extra hours, or do different duties (and the training for it), without extra pay?

Of course, every industry is different and mine in particular relies on a lot of goodwill. So yes, I have worked extra hours for no extra pay just to try and stay above water with the ever-increasing waiting lists

But yes, if I was a NR worker and was asked to do a different job without the necessary training then I would think very differently....

 

[GRALISTAIR]

would you work extra hours, or do different duties (and the training for it), without extra pay?

Actually plenty of salaried professionals do exactly that from time to time.

Me being one of those.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

What's the median wage in a hospital?

Depends who you ask

Consultants: c. £95k
Senior managers: £60K
Qualified nurse: £30K
Cleaner: £24K

 

[GRALISTAIR]

If people start using language like 'scab', then I'm pretty sure this will go the same way. Outdated class hatred won't get anyone anywhere.

Yes indeed

 

[ChrisC]

What's the median wage in a hospital?

Exactly the same can be said about education.
Most classroom teachers, who haven’t taken on any extra management responsibilities, start on around £25k rising up to around £35k at the top of the main pay scale. Those in senior management positions and especially head teachers can of course earn much more. I taught in primary schools for 36 years and by choice did not take on any major management responsibilities which would take me out of the classroom. I wanted to remain as a classroom teacher working full time with the children. In my final years I did manage to be on the Upper Pay Scale but even then when I retired 6 years ago I was still only on £36k.

My dad was a driver on the railway and I know that back in BR days in the 1960’s right through to the early 1990s when he retired, for the responsibilities he had, his pay was appalling. I now know that in comparison to what he earned, and even to what I earned as a teacher, a train drivers wage now is very good. However, their wage being included in the median does raise the figure just as including head teachers and consultants does in their professions.

 

[Butts]

How do wages compare now to the end of BR?

I notice this has been swerved probably due to the unpalatable nature of the answer to those who do not favour Privatisation.

Is it not true that the wages have increased quite nicely particularly for Drivers since the demise of Public Ownership ?

It would be interesting to see how Rail workers salaries have in increased in the intervening period compared to the general populace, does anyone have any data on this ?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

For many job roles in any industry, pay isn't everything - but it helps... Job satisfaction, job security, decent hours and a decent pension help to make a job satisfying

What is so bad about the "conditions" compelling RMT members to strike? Honestly I have no idea

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

So I was to use Great Western Railway on the 23rd to attend an important lecture in Cardiff (I live nearish Reading) Which leaves me returning around 8pm.

I do not drive. I cannot get lifts, and obviously the train back will stop at 6pm because of this pathetic strike.

I’m assuming there are no alternatives available like a RRB, arranged accommodation, etc. Rather they’re just going to scupper my long time plans with two weeks ish notice?

(No smart comments/digs about how I’m not the only one to suffer from this, I beg)

 

[Butts]

So I was to use Great Western Railway on the 23rd to attend an important lecture in Cardiff (I live nearish Reading) Which leaves me returning around 8pm.

I do not drive. I cannot get lifts, and obviously the train back will stop at 6pm because of this pathetic strike.

I’m assuming there are no alternatives available like a RRB, arranged accommodation, etc. Rather they’re just going to scupper my long time plans with two weeks ish notice?

(No smart comments/digs about how I’m not the only one to suffer from this, I beg)

National Express ?

 

[Watershed]

So I was to use Great Western Railway on the 23rd to attend an important lecture in Cardiff (I live nearish Reading) Which leaves me returning around 8pm.

I do not drive. I cannot get lifts, and obviously the train back will stop at 6pm because of this pathetic strike.

I’m assuming there are no alternatives available like a RRB, arranged accommodation, etc. Rather they’re just going to scupper my long time plans with two weeks ish notice?

(No smart comments/digs about how I’m not the only one to suffer from this, I beg)

That will be the railway's position yes. And certainly, if you don't have a ticket yet, that will be the position.

If you already held a ticket for a train that has now been cancelled as a result of the strike, you'd be entitled to alternative transport or else overnight accommodation.

But I'd expect an uphill battle getting the railway to recognise that (or to reimburse you if you pay for either yourself). The railway likes to pretend that it can change timetables at little or no notice and magically escape all its obligations.

 

[windingroad]

So I was to use Great Western Railway on the 23rd to attend an important lecture in Cardiff (I live nearish Reading) Which leaves me returning around 8pm.

I do not drive. I cannot get lifts, and obviously the train back will stop at 6pm because of this pathetic strike.

I’m assuming there are no alternatives available like a RRB, arranged accommodation, etc. Rather they’re just going to scupper my long time plans with two weeks ish notice?

(No smart comments/digs about how I’m not the only one to suffer from this, I beg)

It's a shame that this will make things more difficult for you, and the strike has badly affected plans I had too. But ultimately strikes wouldn't be effective if they didn't cause disruption, and I support the right of workers to do so.

 

[Gems]

For many job roles in any industry, pay isn't everything - but it helps... Job satisfaction, job security, decent hours and a decent pension help to make a job satisfying

What is so bad about the "conditions" compelling RMT members to strike? Honestly I have no idea

No idea. But I have no idea of NR's T&C's anyway. The problem being TOC's and NR have been lumped together in this strike as if it is a common cause. How can it be when every TOC has a different wage scale for basically the same job anyway.

 

[Goldfish62]

National Express ?

Not Cardiff to Reading.

 

[py_megapixel]

Is the data feeding the online journey planners going to be updated imminently to reflect the strike timetables? TOC websites are still merrily selling tickets, not only on cancelled services, but on routes which have been completely axed on the Tues/Thurs/Sat!

 

[ComUtoR]

Rather they’re just going to scupper my long time plans with two weeks ish notice?

Yes, that sounds correct.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Deleted as I’ve decided it adds nothing useful to the thread

 

[Butts]

Not Cardiff to Reading.

Have to go into the smoke and come out ?

 

[JonathanH]

Not Cardiff to Reading.

No, but Cardiff to Heathrow is not out of the question, albeit it isn't cheap and doesn't run at a particularly convenient time.

 

[ComUtoR]

and the reason the whole country’s railway is closing is down to these people’s refusal to accept an “insufficient” payrise.

My offer was 0%