Rail strikes discussion

[High Dyke]

If a signaller sets the wrong route they get a visit from a manager. If a manager sets the wrong route who visits them or do they self flagellate?

They get congratulated by their manager for doing their best under the circumstances.

 

[sonic2009]

Manning Droitwich and Worcester boxes?

GWR are running through Worcester Foregate Street tommorow and Friday though? The signallers arent striking on other days though are you?

 

[MidlandsChap]

Well I’m glad that is, only your opinion.
If you earn more, you spend more or otherwise there is no point bettering yourself.

I will take it that in your world that the 'bettering yourself' metric is defined by your take home income. With that in mind I know plenty of people that bettered theirself but have not especially increased their outgoings. I appreciate this might come as a shock but in many cases an increase in salary is a consequence of a desired career choice rather than the end game objective.

Anyhow that is going off topic somewhat.

I will not dispute that many people want to earn more to spend more. However the people on, for example, £60k plus should not need inflation busting pay rises. If everybody were to get these big % rises then it will only serve to make the problem of inflation worse so in real terms nobody benefits.

Do you not think that we should be protecting the vulnerable who will be most affected by inflation? Rather than those who have 'bettered' theirself'?

 

[bleeder4]

GWR are running through Worcester Foregate Street tommorow and Friday though? The signallers arent striking on other days though are you?

Yes it's caused all sorts of confusion. WMR are away all week but GWR are running in between strike days. It hasn't been helped by the ticket office at Foregate St sticking a poster up in the window that says "No trains from this station AT ALL until Sunday". Which, of course, is a load of rubbish. Incidentally, I was on the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway today and apparently one of the footplate crew was a striking WMR employee. I guess being on the footplate is better than being on the picket line!

 

[MidlandsChap]

Problem with that is, and it is how they used to do pay rises on BR, it erodes the pay difference in the grades, and it gets to a point where a Grade 4 Signaller will not apply for a Grade 7 or similar, as the pay difference for all the extra workload and stress is not worth it !

Very fair point. Unless perhaps it is a one off tapered increase in this instance. Then future rises when hopefully inflation is under control can go back to a set figure equal for each grade. I am just thinking aloud really but I am sure this would be the 'right' way to go about it rather than a set percentage for all.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Reporting on the local BBC North West Tonight quotes from Merseytravel saying there were slightly more people on the buses, ferries and roads in Merseyside and TFGM saying there was a 2% increase in road traffic in Greater Manchester.

Not exactly bringing the country to a standstill.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Sham at Stansted airport. GA new screens unable to display any messages at all about disruption. Apparently the best they could do was empty list of departures!

Apparently they lack functionality to turn off departures list and show a message.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Reporting on the local BBC North West Tonight quotes from Merseytravel saying there were slightly more people on the buses, ferries and roads in Merseyside and TFGM saying there was a 2% increase in road traffic in Greater Manchester.

Not exactly bringing the country to a standstill.

Given people can now WFH it was hardly a surprise with more people going in Monday and Friday this week instead of Tuesday and Thursday. RMT aren't naive and will ratchet up the disruption but right to see what they can achieve initially before moving up a defcon level.

 

[Bertie the bus]

There is no defcon level. It's a case of a union and membership who are living in the past and don't appear to realise their importance and ability to disrupt has dimidhed massively in the past couple of years. Merseyrail didn't run any services at all and it resulted in a slight increase in the usage of other modes of transport.

 

[Mugby]

Given that the last known talks (on Monday) ended in failure and the current situation is deadlock, should ACAS be called in now?

 

[londonboi198o5]

Given that the last known talks (on Monday) ended in failure and the current situation is deadlock, should ACAS be called in now?

i would have thought ACAS would be already involved but clearly they are not sadly i can see this going on for a while yet sadly. To many companies involved and will all want the same thing i imagine.

 

[jayah]

Well the industry once employed 500000 and its was largely slimmed down by negotiation.

Currently DfT aka HMT aren't dangling enough of a carrot to move things forward though.

When HMT are plugging a £7bn/Yr hole they don't need to supply carrots.

Compulsory redundancy was a fact of life even in the glorious days of British Rail. It is only in relatively recent history it has become a hill to die on.

Of course when the railway employed 500,000 they really were badly paid.

Must be something in that?

 

[Thermal]

There is no defcon level. It's a case of a union and membership who are living in the past and don't appear to realise their importance and ability to disrupt has dimidhed massively in the past couple of years. Merseyrail didn't run any services at all and it resulted in a slight increase in the usage of other modes of transport.

This is a bigger issue for the government than people finding / overcrowding alternative transport. It means lots of people have simply chosen to stay away. That's bad for hospitality, shops, the arts sector and businesses within towns and cities generally. It also means lost transport revenue is not being made up elsewhere with higher fuel tax receipts etc.

It's great that fewer members of the public will have been inconvenienced today than may have been the case in the past, but workers and the leisure market both staying home instead of being out spending as usual hurts more than congested roads ever will.

 

[moleman212]

Exactly. They had working class people blaming immigrants and asylum seekers for all of the problems in their lives with the magical bullet of brexit promised as the remedy.

Now they’ve got them all fighting each other to see who can claim to have went the longest without a pay rise and who has the worst terms and conditions, wearing them as if they’re some sort of badge of honour.

Its like they’re suffering from a collective Stockholm syndrome, all parroting the same old rubbish and weaponising nurses and teachers pay as if its reason not to give pay rises to anybody rather than fighting to give nurses and teachers what they deserve.

You are aware that the RMT wanted Brexit? The RMT even CAMPAIGNED for Brexit

 

[jayah]

Flat wrong it's the management that made maintenance have significantly less productivity... As I wrote earlier...

The RAIB have been tearing their hair out for years about track worker safety.

Red zone working will be looked back on like drivers drinking on duty. People won't believe how it went on for so long after so many incidents and accidents.

What did the union who play the safety card over mk3 corrosion have to say while this was going on?

Aside from moaning about work life balance and night shifts, they are actively campaigning about replacing less effective and dangerous patrolling with technology.

Safety is not measured by how many people are paid to put themselves in danger.

 

[diffident]

Today has been a nightmare for me in the job that I do. I rely on the railways every working day. However, I believe that 2-4% should be accepted by the unions because otherwise all other public sector (including myself) will want the same deal as what the RMT get. It won't happen simply because of this question, where is all this new money coming from?

There isn't enough to go around as it is, and sadly, the railway is not an exception to the rule.

 

[2021_Signaller]

The RAIB have been tearing their hair out for years about track worker safety.

Red zone working will be looked back on like drivers drinking on duty. People won't believe how it went on for so long after so many incidents and accidents.

What did the union who play the safety card over mk3 corrosion have to say while this was going on?

Aside from moaning about work life balance and night shifts, they are actively campaigning about replacing less effective and dangerous patrolling with technology.

Safety is not measured by how many people are paid to put themselves in danger.

I find it quite incredible how critics of the strike action, on every argument, play both sides of the same coin to suit them. You can't argue that maintenance is unproductive and therefore needs to be cut if you made them much less productive due to safety requirements which they have. For NR to blame maintenance for this is farcical.

It reveals what a crock this 'modernisation' is. This is all about perception. It won't save the industry anything and won't make the industry any more productive. It's not reform that they want in any meaningful sense. It's all about the perception that the bottom line is less by contracting things out, making ppl do more hours to spare recruiting more staff. It is about eroding conditions and why the Union will not waiver. If it does these idiots will continue to keep on asset stripping.

Bad for passengers, bad for staff, bad for the industry.

Today has been a nightmare for me in the job that I do. I rely on the railways every working day. However, I believe that 2-4% should be accepted by the unions because otherwise all other public sector (including myself) will want the same deal as what the RMT get. It won't happen simply because of this question, where is all this new money coming from?

There isn't enough to go around as it is, and sadly, the railway is not an exception to the rule.

If they can bail out banks, furlough whole industries when it suits and now increase the state pension by RPI next year >10% - why should we work for less? they can pony up the money. However this is about more than just money.

 

[londonboi198o5]

Today has been a nightmare for me in the job that I do. I rely on the railways every working day. However, I believe that 2-4% should be accepted by the unions because otherwise all other public sector (including myself) will want the same deal as what the RMT get. It won't happen simply because of this question, where is all this new money coming from?

There isn't enough to go around as it is, and sadly, the railway is not an exception to the rule.

There is more to this dispute than a payrise. What made me laugh is on the news when they interview people it is always a drivers salary that gets brought up yet drivers are not the ones on strike.

 

[diffident]

If they can bail out banks, furlough whole industries when it suits and now increase the state pension by RPI next year >10% - why should we work for less? they can pony up the money. However this is about more than just money.

Point in principle here, Labour bailed out the banks, not the current government. But that's beside the point and you know that. Where is the money coming from? I've not had a pay rise in 4 years now other than the usual 1-2% that gets tacked on for this year only.

I agree with you that there is more than money at play here, but where does it end? Funding for out-dated practices because "we just should"? It doesn't wash. My industry has dramatically changed leading upto and as a result of covid. It's how it is.

 

[The Prisoner]

Bojo is spoiling for a fight to deflect from Partygate, the no-confidence vote and his general lack of political ability.

He will be of the opinion that being seen to slap down the unions is a perfect “Thatcher-esque” grandstanding moment to galvanise the only people who matter to him - the 200,000 Conservative party members who voted him in charge of his party.

We’ve already seen with Brexit and the poor “deal” to leave the EU, the handling of covid and the shameless partygate behaviour that all he cares about is power and hanging on to it.

A fight will suit him - he has nothing to lose and this may well get very, very messy.

 

[2021_Signaller]

Point in principle here, Labour bailed out the banks, not the current government. But that's beside the point and you know that. Where is the money coming from? I've not had a pay rise in 4 years now other than the usual 1-2% that gets tacked on.

I agree with you that there is more than money at play here, but where does it end? Funding for out-dated practices because "we just should"? It doesn't wash. My industry has dramatically changed leading upto and as a result of covid. It's how it is.

It's funny how these outdated practices are attacked in our industry but cherished by the politicians who have parliamentary recesses, opening and closing of parliament as if life stops for those months. Our practices are not for sale. We'll give them up when the MPs give up theirs!

I also think it's premature to make those assumptions about the future of any industry. We all know where this ends if the union concedes on any of this hogwash.

 

[diffident]

It's funny how these outdated practices are attacked in our industry but cherished by the politicians who have parliamentary recesses, opening and closing of parliament as if life stops for those months. Our practices are not for sale. We'll give them up when the MPs give up theirs!

I also think it's premature to make those assumptions about the future of any industry. We all know where this ends if the union concedes on any of this hogwash.

So for you this is about your distain for politicians, whilst as you also say "our practices are not for sale". That translates to an unwillingness to change, where the rest of society are. Can you see why there is little support here for railway workers?

I'd love a 10% rise in pay, but I know it is not going to happen. I'd love a 5% rise in pay, similarly that isn't going to happen. That's where we are. I can get a 2% rise this year with changes to working practices - some of which are unpalatable - but to keep my job, it must be done. Some of my colleagues will leave the profession as a result, and that is sad whether through voluntary or compulsory redundancy.

However, would you like to retract your comment about bailing out banks, since it was the trade union funded Labour party that did that.

 

[2021_Signaller]

So for you this is about your distain for politicians, whilst as you also say "our practices are not for sale". That translates to an unwillingness to change, where the rest of society are. Can you see why there is little support here for railway workers?

I'd love a 10% rise in pay, but I know it is not going to happen. I'd love a 5% rise in pay, similarly that isn't going to happen. That's where we are. I can get a 2% rise this year with changes to working practices - some of which are unpalatable - but to keep my job, it must be done. Some of my colleagues will leave the profession as a result, and that is sad whether through voluntary or compulsory redundancy.

However, would you like to retract your comment about bailing out banks, since it was the trade union funded Labour party that did that.

I have no opinion of the politicians and couldn't care less, but I will compare their situation to ours and their practices are as outdated and costly (&unwilling to use technology to modernise) as anything we have - yet they go entirely unremarked on. Why don't they lead by example? Because they will fight to defend them and so must we. No moving of parliaments for them, no move out while they refurb, no, make it go on around us at massive costs to the taxpayer. We won't be lectured by these charlatans on outdated practices.

They are picking at our industry when it is in a position of supposed weakness - all brought about by government policy on lockdowns & not railway workers 'outdated practices' I hasten to add.

If the government is giving pensioners a >10% pay rise from Septembers RPI expected figures, why should we settle and work for less? We've all fulfilled our part of the bargain. We worked throughout the pandemic. We've had no payrise for years.

I don't retract nothing. Conservatives bailed out the banks too. They fully supported that decision.

 

[diffident]

"I have no opinion of the politicians and couldn't care less...."

"cherished by the politicians who have parliamentary recesses, opening and closing of parliament as if life stops for those months.... We'll give them up when the MPs give up theirs!"

Bit hypocritical that. But oh well, no debating with some people eh.

 

[OliverReed]

So I’m sickening for suggesting there’s too many marketing people sending crap through my door. To the point that I’m expected to take up a drop in living standards. Ha

There is, if you count taxpayer money, yes.


So will you be losing your job? Who should lose theirs?


Oh, I see.

I’d start with the over bloated internal comms department. Sending a rainforest through my letterbox. Endless surveys, all nonsnense.

Then I’d go through HR. Which has mysteriously doubled in size since I started 20 years ago. There’s a person at my employer who can never answer a question without checking up the food chain. Yet they are a senior person on a very high salary. I expect people who earn more to know their onions.

Catering back offices can be centralised across all Intercity operators. Or outsourced. Again saving costs. Why do we buy a Mars bar for 27p when the guy at my corner shop buys them for 18p?

Marketing. If we are now a nationalised industry. Why does every TOC need a separate marketing dept? It’s more waste & duplication of functions.

The reform the rail industry needs is in its back office functions. Look at Scotrail and Abellio. They took on more managers than they had fired frontline staff. Look at the Fraser Eagle scandal with the WCML upgrade. Ridiculous wasting of public money.

If you aren’t critical to the running of a service. Then why are you there? It’s really simple. I just suspect many of you on here are in non jobs too. I get it. My wife works in PR, she thinks it’s a doss compared to say teaching or being a nurse. I often watch her knitting during conference calls. It’s hilarious. She earns twice my salary. But is anyone calling her lazy?

My final point is inflation is a nonsense. We’ve had twenty years of deliberate wage suppression. I found an old P60 from 1992. Back then I had a dead end retail job. But it paid £10K which is £22k in todays money. But someone doing the same job makes £16k now.

In addition my rent was 1/6th of my income. Nowadays it would be 30-50%. You could buy a house for three times your salary rather than ten.

There’s been a continuous erosion of lower middle class/working class wages. Yet housing, utilities all Sky high because of corporate profiteering and shortages of supply. We need a government for the people and an end to parsimonious types telling me the cupboard is bare. Because we managed to buy a test and trace that didn’t work for £37 Billion. Yet no one seems angry about that? Funny Eh?

Finally awards ceremonies. There’s one in Rail News every month. The public don’t care. Neither does anyone else. The only frontline staff you see there are the odd good looker a manager has their eye on.

 

[northernrail2009]

While i support what The RMT is doing but as a Passenger i just wished Northern at least put some kind of service on for us in Macclesfield to get to Man Picc.

A lot of people travel from Macclesfield to Manchester so would had though they would had ran some kind of service.

No service from Stockport as well.

but as i say RMT have my support for what its worth.

 

[theageofthetra]

Lots of 'wrong route offered and accepted' or 'routed incorrectly' etc etc

They get congratulated by their manager for doing their best under the circumstances.

And the driver?

So for you this is about your distain for politicians, whilst as you also say "our practices are not for sale". That translates to an unwillingness to change, where the rest of society are. Can you see why there is little support here for railway workers?

I'd love a 10% rise in pay, but I know it is not going to happen. I'd love a 5% rise in pay, similarly that isn't going to happen. That's where we are. I can get a 2% rise this year with changes to working practices - some of which are unpalatable - but to keep my job, it must be done. Some of my colleagues will leave the profession as a result, and that is sad whether through voluntary or compulsory redundancy.

However, would you like to retract your comment about bailing out banks, since it was the trade union funded Labour party that did that.

The same government who's deliberately lax lending policies lead to the UK banking crisis in the first place.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In the major European countries, how is Sunday seen as part of the normal working week in the rail industry?

 

[Drogba11CFC]

July could be tense, given the amount of plans I've got (none of which I'm revealing here as walls have ears)

 

[RPI]

ASLEF are being balloted as we speak, as many know, I just have the feeling that this won't help at all, so far the MSM (which since Covid ive tried my best to avoid at all costs) are wrongly throwing about drivers salaries in an attempt to demonise rail staff, if drivers actually do come in on the action it plays into the media's hands. Its a catch 22.

On a slightly different subject, I'm off to Castle Cary shortly which I fear will be exceptionally busy today with fewer trains tomorrow lol!