You wouldn't, but Piccadilly is still the main station in Manchester. I wonder how many passengers using the Blackpool services have used another service to get to Piccadilly?
Where can I find a diagram of this SPEED option?
The viaduct between Piccadilly and Oxford Road is only a two-line viaduct.
I’ve never been sure that more than 2 through platforms at Oxford Road has ever been of any benefit for this reason. Eliminating reversals in platform 5 that foul all 4 other platforms and crew changes in such an illogical location is probably of more benefit, but Castlefield seriously does need to be 4 tracks throughout.
How does this make sense? Surely there would be more usable length on the centre platform without any taken up by buffers? Platform 1 urgently needs to be closed due to it being inaccessible which is simply not acceptable for a city centre station.
The main issue with Oxford road is the bay platform, departing trains must cross the up line.
However the theory behind the old proposal that remains on Shapps's desk is that two tracks are enough to feed four platforms each at Oxford Road and Piccadilly, because trains spend more time in the platforms.
I am well versed with the issues, I was just pointing out that realigning things is of no use unless you install the buffer, as the buffer removes the need for an overlap. Which in this, very constrained, location is the difference between a platform that's long enough for 6x23m coaches and one that isn't.
What are the requirements for overrun distance between the buffer stop and the eastern throat, to protect against a train hitting the buffers?
It would be prudent to allow flexibility in the layout, including capacity for growth. The current service pattern could scarcely have been imagined when Castlefield was last remodelled.
Ah thanks, understood.
Back when train lengths were shorter, everything could use half a platform and this worked well. You could have trains simultaneously arriving and departing from alternate platforms and barely anything used platform 5.
The crew changes aren't illogical and eliminating them would require a huge amount of route learning, which would take a long time to undertake. I agree that it would be desirable but the Treasury is unlikely to see it that way.
Because you need an overlap if there isn't a buffer. And that overlap would have to go onto either the Down line (thus preventing trains from arriving into Oxford Road from Piccadilly) or onto the Up line (thus preventing trains from departing Oxford Road for Piccadilly).
If that’s the case then it needs to be made accessible. Unless it can be closed with no detrimental effect on services, “levelling down” by closing it to make it inaccessible to all isn’t going to help.
To achieve this total recast of the layout at Manchester Oxford Road station, what time period would be required to effect the works and how major would the disruption to train services be, especially to the freight services that pass through that station?
I agree that freight would be problematic. Passenger Use a blitz blockade strategy where everything goes to Victoria and Piccadilly and accept there will be huge disruption . I lived through the Crewe blockade in 1985. There is always a way.
They may be easier to deal with, but the running of 2 and 3 car trains is no longer feasible in many cases since they can’t accommodate the right number of passengers, bikes or luggage etc, although removing toilets may improve capacity, there isn’t really any alternative in the short term to 5 or 6 car trains and the effect on platform occupancy they have. The question is what will we do when 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 or 14 car trains begin to be required?
And it also allows the intermediate stations to be served following the conversion of the Oldham line to the Metrolink. Rochdale did originally have 2 islands though akin to Bolton, Blackburn and stations like that.
I imagine that Northern's December timetable changes will greatly reduce crew changes at Oxford Road. The Southport service will terminate at Oxford Road instead of continuing through to Alderley Edge; the Chat Moss stopper will terminate at the Airport instead of continuing to Crewe; and both Blackpool services will go to the Airport instead of one going to Hazel Grove.
With regards freight, many years ago I was informed that freight was allowed down the steep Miles Platting Bank to Manchester Victoria, but not up the said bank.
True, and those will all help. However Airport services will still likely have some crew changes at Oxford Road because not everyone signs Blackpool or Liverpool. And the TPE Cleethorpes-Liverpool service will likely have some Oxford Road crew changes, again out of necessity.
That is still the case today for the heavier freights.
There should also be fewer relieving crew changes on the CLC stoppers, with the reduction from 2tph to 1tph off peak.
Yet Victoria is a better located station if you’re going to Manchester, which for the vast majority is the end destination.
But I'm not saying it isn't? All I'm saying is Piccadilly is the main station, which isn't an opinion, it's factually correct.
