Most boring preserved railway?

[Ken H]

Perhaps I'm cynical -- but I see as one of the negative aspects of this fallen and sinful world: that a lot of the time people are, often strongly, learning- and knowledge-resistant. From time immemorial, those in the education business have had to battle with this tendency of the young -- who would so often rather be engaging in their own pastimes which they enjoy; than having to swot up dreary stuff in which they perceive neither point nor interest. (I don't mean to sound condescending or superior here: I was myself, like that at school.) Admittedly, to some extent, as per @Ken H above, kids can be curious and moved to ask questions about things -- but often that doesn't happen, or goes awry. My brother was a teacher for some years: his experiences in that occupation, caused him to conclude that supposedly educational school trips to museum-type venues (including preserved railways?) are a waste of time and everything else -- overwhelmingly, the kids just latch on to all possible inconsequential "fun" aspects of the outing; overall, very little solid information gets into their heads -- that is the last thing that they're interested in.

This pessimistic view is of course not an "absolute": some knowledge gets assimilated, however randomly; some individual kids do find such stuff interesting, and learn a good deal -- even about subjects for which they are not already enthusiasts. I cannot but feel in the main, though; that someone in @70014IronDuke's newly invented position of KASO, would need to be a magician (literally -- Hogwarts style) to clock up much successful achievement vis-a-vis his role. The same, I feel, goes for all "normals / punters" (child, or adult) visiting preserved railways -- very many of them will just want to enjoy the experience, hoping to find it relaxing / aesthetically pleasing (plus of course nice cafes, toilets, etc.): they won't want to be plagued with pesky facts, hitherto unknown to them and of no interest to them, about trains and railways -- and at varying levels of awareness, they'll resist such. (To be truthful, I can feel some sympathy for them here.)

Some learning on the part of non-railfans, will happen -- but in the nature of things I feel, not a lot. Even strenuous attempts to educate, will probably reap only a meagre harvest: prompting the question of whether -- with preservation societies' resources apt to be, in general, not very thickly spread -- it's worth investing all that much, in the learning-and-info side of the business. Have informational signs posted up, of course: they'll be mostly ignored, but some visitors will take varying degrees of interest in their content. Doing much more would, I fear, be rather throwing good money after bad.

Kinds soak up knowledge without having to ram it down their throats. Make it available
Not a railway but the cafe at Wellesbourne airfield has aero charts embedded in the table tops. My kids/grandkids would look at those and then ask questions. Thats how you do it....

 

[MisterSheeps]

On the scenery front, the East Lancs is unspectacular at best... luckily in terms of a museum railway for people who are more interested in the railway than the landscape, it's hard to match.

Many narrow-gauge lines seem more about "cute little trains" than either railway history or spectacular views. Nothing wrong with that of course, different strokes and all that.

This seems a bit damning ... the Bury - Heywood (should be extended to Castleton) bit is scruffy edge-of-metropolis stuff, but the run up the Irwell is good (tunnels & viaducts, varied haulage), Bury has the feel of a secondary main line station, and both Ramsbottom & Rawtenstall are worth visiting as destinations, especially the latter with it's textile machinery & wonderful temperance bar. There's good walks between stations. Of all the preserved lines I think it has the best potential of a commuter service.
I don't think much of Midland Railway Butterley.
IMHO, the GCR is not long enough to satisfy, though will be when the north bit is linked.

 

[Calthrop]

Ill match you in cynicism. Some parents wonder why has MR Awdry the English Teacher arranged a trip to a heritage railway for his class during the quite term time, getting paid and free transport laid on(paid by the pupils parents) into the bargain?
Wouldn't the day out be better spent somewhere on the topic he's teaching?

Indeed, rather naughty conduct on the part of teachers; and probably not unheard-of. However, I'm inclined to feel that few people are the whole time 100% honest and free of self-serving in all particulars (or mercilessly accurate in their own perception of their actions), and thus entitled to "don the white mantle of the just". Plus, teaching strikes me as in a number of ways, a hideous job -- one that I could never do. Maybe they can be allowed a self-awarded perk or two ...


@Ken H says: "Kids soak up knowledge without having to ram it down their throats. Make it available
Not a railway but the cafe at Wellesbourne airfield has aero charts embedded in the table tops. My kids would look at those and then ask questions. Thats how you do it..."

I concur, information should be made available; some learning and acquisition of knowledge will take place, and a few visitors -- child or adult-- will actually get the "bug" for the whole scene. My perception, though -- maybe pessimistic -- is that all this is unlikely to happen on a very big scale: the majority of "punters" will go out of their way to remain ignorant and to be effort-free.

 

[Falcon1200]

If you've been commuting on a Pacer for thirty years you are hardly likely to be enthralled when one trundles up after you just paid £x for the privilege of experiencing the misery again.

Maybe not just now, but in a few years time that commuter will be telling his appalled grandkids 'these are the trains I used to go to work on' !

 

[Dai Corner]

Maybe not just now, but in a few years time that commuter will be telling his appalled grandkids 'these are the trains I used to go to work on' !

Indeed. I did my share of commuting on first generation BR DMUs, Mk1 carriages hauled by type 2 diesels and HSTs. I'd drag my grandchildren (if I had any) out to ride on them in preservation. I don't feel the same about Sprinters. Yet.....

 

[eldomtom2]

Welsh Highland Heritage Railway: What's the point when two others are in the same town and multiple others are in the area?

The history between the WHR and WHHR is a long and bitter one.

 

[Richard Scott]

Ill match you in cynicism. Some parents wonder why has MR Awdry the English Teacher arranged a trip to a heritage railway for his class during the quite term time, getting paid and free transport laid on(paid by the pupils parents) into the bargain?
Wouldn't the day out be better spent somewhere on the topic he's teaching?

The amount of effort that goes into running a school trip, even a day one, is not worth it just to save a few quid going to a heritage railway. Try organising one before making cynical remarks.

 

[The exile]

Kinds soak up knowledge without having to ram it down their throats. Make it available
Not a railway but the cafe at Wellesbourne airfield has aero charts embedded in the table tops. My kids/grandkids would look at those and then ask questions. Thats how you do it....

Well said. As for educational school trips, think of them like conferences - the greatest outcomes are not usually related to the ostensible purpose!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The history between the WHR and WHHR is a long and bitter one.

Though one thing the WHHR provides is a feeling of "running fast" on the last bit towards Porthmadog, which I always thought felt quite cool.

 

[Calthrop]

The amount of effort that goes into running a school trip, even a day one, is not worth it just to save a few quid going to a heritage railway. Try organising one before making cynical remarks.

Cynicism on all fronts, maybe; but sometimes people will work harder to "put one over on the system", than when it's just a matter of honest toil.

 

[brevets]

The lavender line will be on my list of disappointment but unfortunately it's only a small line so big enthusiasts won't be satisfied anyway.

The Lavender Line may be small, but not necessarily disappointing. I did a DEMU Driver Experience day there only yesterday, not only did I enjoy it but the whole family did too.
I'm lucky in that there are 5 preservation sites within an hour of where I live and all are interesting in different ways. I wouldn't say any are boring.
About 5 years ago, I did a Round Robin of sorts and visited 3 out of the 5 using local rail and bus services: Robertsbridge, Spa Valley (Tun Wells West) and Bluebell (E.Grinstead to Horsted Keynes). A great day out!
I've been to Lakeside and Haverthwaite, and as I was planning a day on the lakes anyway, I took in the railway too. While visiting Skipton and it's Castle I managed to squeeze in Embsay and Bolton Abbey Railway and a trip on the Leeds-Liverpool Canal!
As far as the Devon sites are concerned, I agree that Paignton and Dartmouth is more commercial but the location is beautiful. I prefer the atmosphere on Totnes to Buckfastleigh. I always try to incorporate another attraction when visiting a railway - Castle, Abbey, lake etc, that's how I've sold Downpatrick &Co Down Railway to the family because it goes to an Abbey ruin... one that was in GoT!

 

[Richard Scott]

Cynicism on all fronts, maybe; but sometimes people will work harder to "put one over on the system", than when it's just a matter of honest toil.

Believe me you wouldn't run a school trip to "put one over on the system", it's a huge effort with untold amounts of paperwork.

 

[John Luxton]

Ill match you in cynicism. Some parents wonder why has MR Awdry the English Teacher arranged a trip to a heritage railway for his class during the quite term time, getting paid and free transport laid on(paid by the pupils parents) into the bargain?
Wouldn't the day out be better spent somewhere on the topic he's teaching?

School trips are run for a variety of reasons supporting learning, rewarding good behaviour, end of term treat, independence training.

Obviously teachers can build their interests into their trips. I taught History and Geography (and ICT). ICT offered few opportunities for field trips though I did go an an ICT Teacher's Day at Mersey Tunnels about 20 years ago which was probably the most interesting staff training day ever!

History and Geography offered much more opportunity for trips.

For several years I organised an Irish Trip with a colleague. As my interests also include ships it was a good excuse for a subsidised sail from Liverpool or Holyhead to Dublin. The three days were quite intensive. Took the children to Cobh Heritage Centre in the railway station (Titanic / Lusitania / Famine Ships), places such as Blarney Castle, Dunbrody Famine Ship, (Avoca - it was the time of the TV drama Ballykissangel), Vinegar Hill and the 1798 Rebellion Centre we finished off with a visit to Kilmainham Gaol, in Dublin and some shopping time before heading back home.

The children got a lot out of it and as we did the trips each year for about 6 years we had some children coming more than once. Of course a lot of Geography / History work was built around it.

We only stopped the trips because of the dreaded H&S requiring ever more complex risk assessments for overseas trips.

 

[Dai Corner]

With apologies for staying off-topic, I was the IT Manager at a secondary school before I retired and the ICT Teachers' idea of a field trip was getting me to show the pupils the secure rooms where the servers, network switches, telephone system and so on lived.

Within a mile of the school is one of the biggest datacentres in Europe but it proved impossible to arrange a visit there.

History, Geography, Welsh and Modern Languages were much more enterprising.

Back on topic, the Barry Tourist Railway has very limited operations, even more so now that TfW have purchased the site. It could have had daily operation in the summer, heritage shuttles to Cardiff, a representation of Woodham's scrapyard and so much more.

 

[d9009alycidon]

I find the Bo'ness and Kinniel line very boring, don't get me wrong there is plenty of interesting things around Bo'ness station, but the line itself is nothing special and it is very much an out and back with nothing to see at the other end. Traction recently has been the Austerity tank that has been there from the beginning. I also note that a lot of the site is moving towards business collaboration and less true preservation.

 

[yorksrob]

With apologies for staying off-topic, I was the IT Manager at a secondary school before I retired and the ICT Teachers' idea of a field trip was getting me to show the pupils the secure rooms where the servers, network switches, telephone system and so on lived.

Within a mile of the school is one of the biggest datacentres in Europe but it proved impossible to arrange a visit there.

History, Geography, Welsh and Modern Languages were much more enterprising.

Back on topic, the Barry Tourist Railway has very limited operations, even more so now that TfW have purchased the site. It could have had daily operation in the summer, heritage shuttles to Cardiff, a representation of Woodham's scrapyard and so much more.

Sounds like a fairly uninspiring day out to me.

Amongst the school trips I remember from my childhood were historic Rye, Dover Castle, a working windmill.

They were all the right balance of education/entertainment to my mind, as evidenced by the fact that I still remember them over thirty years later.

 

[The_Van]

I find the Bo'ness and Kinniel line very boring, don't get me wrong there is plenty of interesting things around Bo'ness station, but the line itself is nothing special and it is very much an out and back with nothing to see at the other end. Traction recently has been the Austerity tank that has been there from the beginning. I also note that a lot of the site is moving towards business collaboration and less true preservation.

I agree to an extent my inlaws live in Falkirk and I'm always at Bo'ness when we are up. Overall it's great with the museum and shed and wide variety of diesels around but the ride itself is functional at best. Shame the mine isn't there anymore either

 

[37114]

Quite surprised by some of the lines mentioned here, for example GWSR...come on!!! Lovely restored stations, view over the cotswolds, decent rolling stock, loads of mainline Diesels, a long tunnel, what's not to like? Maybe because they don't have a Pacer then it doesn't appeal to the younger demographic that frequents this forum but there are some seriously hard to please people on here....

My local line (Avon Valley railway) will never set the world alight in it's current form as half of it is in a cutting in a housing estate, the other half is on an embankment in the Avon Valley but it is heavily wooded so not the best view. That said I have been loads of times and the kids enjoyed the rides they went on. Our heritage lines need customers not critic's so let's get out and support them and knock this thread on the head...

 

[The_Van]

Quite surprised by some of the lines mentioned here, for example GWSR...come on!!! Lovely restored stations, view over the cotswolds, decent rolling stock, loads of mainline Diesels, a long tunnel, what's not to like? Maybe because they don't have a Pacer then it doesn't appeal to the younger demographic that frequents this forum but there are some seriously hard to please people on here....

My local line (Avon Valley railway) will never set the world alight in it's current form as half of it is in a cutting in a housing estate, the other half is on an embankment in the Avon Valley but it is heavily wooded so not the best view. That said I have been loads of times and the kids enjoyed the rides they went on. Our heritage lines need customers not critic's so let's get out and support them and knock this thread on the head...

Disagree in the main this has been a sensible discussion about the cons (and pros) of some lines. That's what forums are for

 

[Runningaround]

Quite surprised by some of the lines mentioned here, for example GWSR...come on!!! Lovely restored stations, view over the cotswolds, decent rolling stock, loads of mainline Diesels, a long tunnel, what's not to like? Maybe because they don't have a Pacer then it doesn't appeal to the younger demographic that frequents this forum but there are some seriously hard to please people on here....

My local line (Avon Valley railway) will never set the world alight in it's current form as half of it is in a cutting in a housing estate, the other half is on an embankment in the Avon Valley but it is heavily wooded so not the best view. That said I have been loads of times and the kids enjoyed the rides they went on. Our heritage lines need customers not critic's so let's get out and support them and knock this thread on the head...

Perhaps this thread is like a ratings advice site written by those with knowledge and experience of said attractions, you never know some lines might read it and think ''No I might not run every timetable with Pacers''.

 

[Western Sunset]

When working in SE London, I once took my class of 7-year-olds on the Woolwich Ferry, then we visited the North Woolwich Railway Museum. It was always quite an experience taking the children on a train or the underground to other museums in central London. One morning, when I arrived at school, there was a Networker coach parked on a lowloader outside. Our school wasn't far from Hither Green depot, but I never did find out why it was there. Got my class to pose by it though...

At another school, when I worked in Derbyshire, I took my class to the Crich Tramway Museum.

Is there a theme here...

 

[trebor79]

I really can't understand why any heritage railway runs Pacers. That has to be a very niche interest.
My local line, the Mid Norfolk runs Dereham towards Wymondham on some days, with hauled stock (steam or diesel). On other days they run Dereham north with a Pacer.
What I can't work out is why they don't combine the two, so it's possible to do the full line in one day.
Looks like they will be returning to Wymondham in a few weeks, so that's good news.

 

[railfan99]

I omitted Peterborough's Nene Valley Railway from a forthcoming visit from overseas to UK as while its scenery might be fine, 'foreign' locomotives gave me the impression it was 'faking it.'

But I include East Lancs Railway at Bury due to what may be an enjoyable trip on Manchester Metrolink to reach it, historic stations and probable interesting locos despite some above expressing concerns about how part is apparently continually adjacent to backyards of housing. Agree 'the rural look' such as NYMR delivers in spades is optimal.

Mid Norfolk Railway is too time consuming to reach and at the time of planning, lacked a date for resumption of services all the way. In one day, starting at Norwich, I can do the short North Norfolk Railway (which receives much praise, though it may not be especially scenic) and using fast main line connections should be at Bradford for an evening meal and brief stay at glorious looking, railway-built Midland Hotel so that next day K&WVR is among the activities.

 

[xotGD]

If you are arriving at the East Lancs via tram to Bury, then you could just have a run on the scenic stretch to Rawtenstall and back,and avoid the back garden run to Haywood.

I omitted Peterborough's Nene Valley Railway from a forthcoming visit from overseas to UK as while its scenery might be fine, 'foreign' locomotives gave me the impression it was 'faking it.'

But I include East Lancs Railway at Bury due to what may be an enjoyable trip on Manchester Metrolink to reach it, historic stations and probable interesting locos despite some above expressing concerns about how part is apparently continually adjacent to backyards of housing. Agree 'the rural look' such as NYMR delivers in spades is optimal.

Mid Norfolk Railway is too time consuming to reach and at the time of planning, lacked a date for resumption of services all the way. In one day, starting at Norwich, I can do the short North Norfolk Railway (which receives much praise, though it may not be especially scenic) and using fast main line connections should be at Bradford for an evening meal and brief stay at glorious looking, railway-built Midland Hotel so that next day K&WVR is among the activities.

 

[D6130]

If you are arriving at the East Lancs via tram to Bury, then you could just have a run on the scenic stretch to Rawtenstall and back,and avoid the back garden run to Haywood.

However the Bury-Heywood stretch does have considerable railway interest, including the very steeply-graded hump over the tramway bridge and some rare fully-working ex-LMS colour light signals.

 

[steamybrian]

Many years ago I travelled on the Weardale Railway from Stanhope to Bishop Auckland. On arrival at Stanhope I entered the beautifully restored station and waited for the first train which I thought would be of "heritage" stock. The stock arrived and it was a "Pacer" which at the time were still in service. We departed and "bounced" along the very overgrown track through the relatively flat boring countryside. Eventually arrived at their Bishop Auckland "station". The platform was built using well weathered plywood sheets. I endured the long return journey and have not wanted to return. My apologies to the society members who have restored this line but in addition to the East Kent Railway I mentioned earlier it comes under my category of one of the most boring preserved railways I have travelled on.
I have travelled over the majority of the preserved lines in the country.

 

[trebor79]

Weardale is a line I've always wanted to travel on. Out on a bike ride many years ago we pushed our bikes along the track from Wotton Park to Escomb (it was very disused at the time). There were dozens of oil lamps rotting away near Wotton Park station and other bits and pieces.
I wouldn't say the countryside is boring, Weardale is very pleasant in the right weather.

 

[Peter Wilde]

Some people above have expressed a preference for narrow gauge over standard gauge lines.

I'd say not necessarily. Narrow gauge can be great and can have particularly interesting vehicles . and scenery. However, I'd suggest a distinction between narrow gauge lines that have always been that way, and those that have been set up on disused standard gauge trackbeds. The latter can be a bit boring - long straight sections, lacking in the twisty, scenic variety one finds in places like the Festiniog or the WHR.

For example I took one trip on the BVR in Norfolk. Worth doing, but in terms of scenery and traction effort, not up to the best available elsewhere.

Still, what floats my boat does not matter so much to others. And we ought to be grateful for the huge variety that exists - and for there being so many heritage lines that most places have one available for days out not too far away.

 

[Ken H]

Can I put a shout in for the Devon Railway Centre and Model World
We took the grand-kids there when they were about 4 and 6 yrs old.
They were kept interested there all day, chugging round on trains, watching the model railways, playing on the train themed playground equipment
Havent been for years so dont know if its still good. - Grandkids are adults now!
But this is a railway that has tried to keep kids interested, so I imagine they picked up some knowledge.
I am sure some purists will sniff at this facility, but I think many preserved railways should go and see if there is anything they can include in their business model.

Their dad took them to Diggerland nearby a couple of days later and they liked that too!!!

 

[Alanko]

I find the Bo'ness and Kinniel line very boring, don't get me wrong there is plenty of interesting things around Bo'ness station, but the line itself is nothing special and it is very much an out and back with nothing to see at the other end. Traction recently has been the Austerity tank that has been there from the beginning. I also note that a lot of the site is moving towards business collaboration and less true preservation.

It pains me to agree with this. Bo'ness itself, with the museum and general accessibility of the rolling stock is a delight. There is usually something to see down there, be it a visiting diesel or subtle re-jig of the stuff stored outside.

Agreed on the Austerity loco. Nice that it is painted as an authentic NCB loco, but it doesn't cross the uncanny valley in the way the Ivatt tender loco does on the Strathspey line. Bo'ness would benefit from a slightly larger steam loco, though they seem to have a Br standard tank going through some sort of overhaul just now.

Birkhill station feels under-utilised. The footbridge leads to nowhere and the passing loop seems like it could offer more if used creatively. At the moment it feels like half a station trapped in purgatory. Road access also seems Byzantine and miserably close to a sprawling landfill site.

Manuel halt has been a dusty, shadeless place offering little more than views of 385s battering past whenever I've visited. Nice that they have completed the line allowing you to do the whole thing, however. I'm not sure how you can make a rural halt more interesting without going full 'chocolate box' and digging out the old enamel Bisto adverts, milk churns and gas lamps.

Likewise I'm looking at visiting the Caledonian railway. I see their timetable allows 15 minutes at Bridge of Dun, where there doesn't seem to be much to do either!

These small lines were built for an single purpose and it wasn't tourism. Maybe worth remembering in this thread.