Most boring preserved railway?

[Runningaround]

It pains me to agree with this. Bo'ness itself, with the museum and general accessibility of the rolling stock is a delight. There is usually something to see down there, be it a visiting diesel or subtle re-jig of the stuff stored outside.

Agreed on the Austerity loco. Nice that it is painted as an authentic NCB loco, but it doesn't cross the uncanny valley in the way the Ivatt tender loco does on the Strathspey line. Bo'ness would benefit from a slightly larger steam loco, though they seem to have a Br standard tank going through some sort of overhaul just now.

Birkhill station feels under-utilised. The footbridge leads to nowhere and the passing loop seems like it could offer more if used creatively. At the moment it feels like half a station trapped in purgatory. Road access also seems Byzantine and miserably close to a sprawling landfill site.

Manuel halt has been a dusty, shadeless place offering little more than views of 385s battering past whenever I've visited. Nice that they have completed the line allowing you to do the whole thing, however. I'm not sure how you can make a rural halt more interesting without going full 'chocolate box' and digging out the old enamel Bisto adverts, milk churns and gas lamps.

Likewise I'm looking at visiting the Caledonian railway. I see their timetable allows 15 minutes at Bridge of Dun, where there doesn't seem to be much to do either!

These small lines were built for an single purpose and it wasn't tourism. Maybe worth remembering in this thread.

What they were built for is why they are no longer part of the NR

 

[Runningaround]

It pains me to agree with this. Bo'ness itself, with the museum and general accessibility of the rolling stock is a delight. There is usually something to see down there, be it a visiting diesel or subtle re-jig of the stuff stored outside.

Agreed on the Austerity loco. Nice that it is painted as an authentic NCB loco, but it doesn't cross the uncanny valley in the way the Ivatt tender loco does on the Strathspey line. Bo'ness would benefit from a slightly larger steam loco, though they seem to have a Br standard tank going through some sort of overhaul just now.

Birkhill station feels under-utilised. The footbridge leads to nowhere and the passing loop seems like it could offer more if used creatively. At the moment it feels like half a station trapped in purgatory. Road access also seems Byzantine and miserably close to a sprawling landfill site.

Manuel halt has been a dusty, shadeless place offering little more than views of 385s battering past whenever I've visited. Nice that they have completed the line allowing you to do the whole thing, however. I'm not sure how you can make a rural halt more interesting without going full 'chocolate box' and digging out the old enamel Bisto adverts, milk churns and gas lamps.

Likewise I'm looking at visiting the Caledonian railway. I see their timetable allows 15 minutes at Bridge of Dun, where there doesn't seem to be much to do either!

These small lines were built for an single purpose and it wasn't tourism. Maybe worth remembering in this thread.

And its tourists who will keep them viable and allow them to thrive, the successful operations have for a long time realised that if it wants to showcase the heritage of a line it needs to be interesting and integrate with an areas other attractions too to be part of the trip. And if a visitor gets stung too often from visiting a poor operation they may never bother going to anymore including ones featuring on Portillo.

 

[railfan99]

However the Bury-Heywood stretch does have considerable railway interest, including the very steeply-graded hump over the tramway bridge and some rare fully-working ex-LMS colour light signals.

Thank you and the previous contributor: I want to do all the line, as is my practice where possible worldwide. I didn't know about the 'hump': great local information. This forum is terrific as so many have excellent knowledge.

 

[D2007wsm]

I recently visit the Dean Forest Railway and whilst nice enough found it to be rather boring. You seemed to spend more time sat in a platform than actually moving.

The Mark 2 which I sat in was also very shabby, it appeared to still have it’s NSE interior. The Mark 1 next to it didn’t seem much better with some seats having at least 3 different moquettes on different parts of the seat.

 

[fireftrm]

Midland Railway Centre........ went and wondered why

 

[Alanko]

Midland Railway Centre........ went and wondered why

Not a place I was aware of, so I resorted to Wikipedia. To quote:

"Signal box – the operational signal box at Swanwick Junction was moved from Kettering station in 1988. There is no public access."


Errr... good? Seems to be quite a bitsy place with lots of different going concerns jumbled in together.


Perhaps a key metric is the ratio of stations to miles of track. This place manages three stations in three and a half miles of track, which is pushing it a bit?

I've not yet found the section outlining their plan to extend the line by a further fourteen miles to reach a nearby market town situated just the other side of a six lane motorway.

 

[D6130]

I've not yet found the section outlining their plan to extend the line by a further fourteen miles to reach a nearby market town situated just the other side of a six lane motorway.

I wasn't aware of their plans to extend the line by a further fourteen miles to reach a nearby market town on the other side of the M1. Which town might that be?

 

[73202]

Here it is lol https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ll-link-in-with-midland-railway-centre.39879/

 

[D6130]

Here it is lol https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ll-link-in-with-midland-railway-centre.39879/

Thanks. That's very interesting. I hadn't heard about that.

 

[nanstallon]

Concerning a possible "most boring preserved line of all" -- am wondering whether any participants here, have ever visited the Lincolnshire Wolds Railway? I have not, and have no plans or wish to; cannot help but regard what I can find out about it, as pointing to its being in assorted aspects, an extremely limited -- and potentially extremely boring -- outfit.

With no first-hand experience of the line: I don't totally rule out the possibility of its being of more interest than would -- as above -- appear likely. This railway is brought to mind here, by a paragraph in Mike Parker's book Map Addict. The section of the book involved, deals with various aspects of the Ordnance Survey map which includes north Lincolnshire -- the author (not a railway enthusiast as such) has not visited the line: but clearly reckons it likely to be an absurdly and despicably petty affair; and uses it, with waspish wit, as an exemplar of many such up and down the country. He writes: "In terms of the map, the fact that these pointless excuses for both railways and tourist attractions are shown with exactly the same symbology as a real railway, connecting real places, is something that pains me to see on a modern OS." While my gut feeling on this, very much aligns with the author's; have also in my head -- in contrast -- the notion that such savage "rubbishing" without having in person visited the thing, is perhaps not altogether appropriate.

I share your view. Frankly, many of these smaller preserved railways are more an outlet for the enthusiasm of those who partake in the operation, rather than a place of interest for the visitor. I have nothing against such outfits, as they aren't doing any harm to anyone, but I can't rave about them and I don't go far out of my way to visit them.

Similarly, I think it is a little mean to criticise a railway, or indeed anything else, if one hasn't even been there. And if they give pleasure to those who run them, what is wrong with that? Also, a family with young children in tow may find an hour's travel on, say, the North York Moors Railway a bit too long, while a short trip may be just the thing for them especially if there are decent facilities. We are not all the same, thank goodness!

 

[73202]

Thanks. That's very interesting. I hadn't heard about that.

It actually was nothing to do with the MRB.

It was a totally separate group that came up with the idea.

 

[trebor79]

It actually was nothing to do with the MRB.

It was a totally separate group that came up with the idea.

Seems as fantastical as the Norfolk Circular Railway. They've actually bought a tin piece.of trackbed near Holt, and erected signs saying it's private property, but that's about it.

 

[Runningaround]

Before seeing it from the train I had it in my head that the Heritage Centre at Crewe would be a big site but passing it, it doesn't look like it'd be worth breaking a journey for an hour or two to visit, it always looks quiet which is strange considering how many locals will have railway link and the amount of spotters who visit the town. Other than the ATP is there anything else?

 

[Dave S 56F]

Not a place I was aware of, so I resorted to Wikipedia. To quote:

"Signal box – the operational signal box at Swanwick Junction was moved from Kettering station in 1988. There is no public access."


Errr... good? Seems to be quite a bitsy place with lots of different going concerns jumbled in together.


Perhaps a key metric is the ratio of stations to miles of track. This place manages three stations in three and a half miles of track, which is pushing it a bit?

I've not yet found the section outlining their plan to extend the line by a further fourteen miles to reach a nearby market town situated just the other side of a six lane motorway.

Am I right in thinking as well the old Ais Gill summit signal box is also preserved at midland railway Centre also Swanwick jct as the demonstration box to play with the levers in as well?

 

[Titfield]

I share your view. Frankly, many of these smaller preserved railways are more an outlet for the enthusiasm of those who partake in the operation, rather than a place of interest for the visitor. I have nothing against such outfits, as they aren't doing any harm to anyone, but I can't rave about them and I don't go far out of my way to visit them.

Similarly, I think it is a little mean to criticise a railway, or indeed anything else, if one hasn't even been there. And if they give pleasure to those who run them, what is wrong with that? Also, a family with young children in tow may find an hour's travel on, say, the North York Moors Railway a bit too long, while a short trip may be just the thing for them especially if there are decent facilities. We are not all the same, thank goodness!

I think I once heard or read that the ideal heritage railway:
(1) actually served at least one town or point of interest other than the railway itself
(2) would be between 5 and 7 miles long thus giving a journey time of C20 - 30 minutes - long enough for an experience but not too long for children
(3) such a length would allow a reasonable frequency of service with just one loco in steam
(4) had a shop
(5) had a cafe / tea room/ refreshment facility
(6) had a car park
(7) had decent toilets

 

[D6130]

Has anyone on here ever been on the Bristol Harbour Railway? I've seen it running from the other side of the water, but never travelled on it.

 

[patrick.hearn3]

Has anyone on here ever been on the Bristol Harbour Railway? I've seen it running from the other side of the water, but never travelled on it.

I have, and it's local to me. It's a short shuttle to (near) the SS Great Britain attraction but (a) it lost a lot when its branch to run alongside the river was stopped and (b) that area is now a very public area as they've redeveloped it.

Lots to do in the area and it's worth the trip for fun, but it's not a 'heritage railway day out' in the way that others are.

 

[paul1609]

I think I once heard or read that the ideal heritage railway:
(1) actually served at least one town or point of interest other than the railway itself
(2) would be between 5 and 7 miles long thus giving a journey time of C20 - 30 minutes - long enough for an experience but not too long for children
(3) such a length would allow a reasonable frequency of service with just one loco in steam
(4) had a shop
(5) had a cafe / tea room/ refreshment facility
(6) had a car park
(7) had decent toilets

It rather depends of the definition of “ideal" is it most profitable, most attractive to enthusiasts, most attractive to coach parties, most attractive to volunteers to operate, etc etc. What type of operation you can achieve is often limited by and large by your geographical location.

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

I think I once heard or read that the ideal heritage railway:
(1) actually served at least one town or point of interest other than the railway itself
(2) would be between 5 and 7 miles long thus giving a journey time of C20 - 30 minutes - long enough for an experience but not too long for children
(3) such a length would allow a reasonable frequency of service with just one loco in steam
(4) had a shop
(5) had a cafe / tea room/ refreshment facility
(6) had a car park
(7) had decent toilets

Just so

 

[Cowley]

Just so

In which case why are the North Yorkshire Moors and the Severn Valley two of the most profitable preserved railways in not only the country but possibly the entire world distance wise..?

Edit - Let’s add the 13 mile long Ffestiniog to that.

 

[railfan99]

In which case why are the North Yorkshire Moors and the Severn Valley two of the most profitable preserved railways in not only the country but possibly the entire world distance wise..?

Edit - Let’s add the 13 mile long Ffestiniog to that.

Although just an Australian, I've been on all three and despite being 'too long' according to the above criteria, they "win" because of their history and how the towns at the end (Whitby at which I stayed overnight in a classic Pommy B&B, Pickering that I explored a bit and Brignorth where I didn't have such time) offer something. (To those of you who live in the UK, 'heritage towns' may be pedestrian as in 'everyday', but to me, not so, and a quintessential reason why foreigners, including nearby Europeans, visit).

The poster with his list omits families can sometimes travel to intermediate stations to shorten the journey if desired, such as Grosmont to Goathland and return.

Let's not forget the contribution in visitor spending, employment and purchase of supplies (even down to steel and fastenings for tracks) that many heritage railways such as West Somerset Railway make to their local economies. The latter has 50 staff and an amazing 1000 volunteers. Sure, if it didn't exist some spending would occur elsewhere (people would find another attraction to visit) but that isn't the case for every visitor.

 

[John Luxton]

Before seeing it from the train I had it in my head that the Heritage Centre at Crewe would be a big site but passing it, it doesn't look like it'd be worth breaking a journey for an hour or two to visit, it always looks quiet which is strange considering how many locals will have railway link and the amount of spotters who visit the town. Other than the ATP is there anything else?

I only returned to long distance rail travelling in autumn 2021 almost 40 years after passing my driving test! It had been the odd branch line and heritage railway in the intervening years. Anyway last September I decided to join the Branch Line Society Wirral Squirrel Railtour. I planned to join and leave the tour at Liverpool LS but after some of the milage was cancelled due to vegetation issues I thought I would remain with the train and alight at Crewe and catch a service train back.

It was only when running into Crewe that I spotted the Crewe Heritage Centre and the APT-E. Somehow or other, the Heritage Centre had passed under my radar. Thus about two weekends later I headed off to Crewe on the train to visit. For the first time in my life I stepped on board an APT!

Had a mooch around but was rather underwhelmed.

What was there was interesting and then finding out just how long it had been opened (1987) I came to the conclusion it had never really developed to its full potential.

There was a large exhibition hall which was empty apart from a model railway layout, 87035 and three ice cream vans!

I had turned up expecting it to be full of exhibits and thought the Crewe Heritage Centre would be rather like Steam Museum at Swindon which I have visited a few times.

Put it this way - it is worth a visit if you don't live far away Cheshire / Manchester / Merseyside and perhaps a stop off for an hour or two if passing through Crewe.

If you want to see what is there my collection of images are on my web site. I photographed most of what is worth photographing.

Crewe Heritage Centre - John Luxton

The Crewe Heritage Centre is situated between the Crewe-Chester and West Coast Mainline on the site of the original Crewe Locomotive Works, it was officially opened by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh, on 24th July 1987 to mark the 150th anniversary of...

www.jhluxton.com

 

[Calthrop]

I share your view. Frankly, many of these smaller preserved railways are more an outlet for the enthusiasm of those who partake in the operation, rather than a place of interest for the visitor. I have nothing against such outfits, as they aren't doing any harm to anyone, but I can't rave about them and I don't go far out of my way to visit them.

Similarly, I think it is a little mean to criticise a railway, or indeed anything else, if one hasn't even been there. And if they give pleasure to those who run them, what is wrong with that? Also, a family with young children in tow may find an hour's travel on, say, the North York Moors Railway a bit too long, while a short trip may be just the thing for them especially if there are decent facilities. We are not all the same, thank goodness!

I reckon you and I are definitely in accord here. Indeed -- re small and likely meagrely-interesting preservation venues: in Thomas Jefferson's words, "it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg" -- so "what's the beef?" Some enthusiasts might deplore outfits in this bracket, for their possibly posing a threat to more worthwhile and impressive ones; by taking away from them, not-unlimited support and resources -- I've been tempted myself, to thoughts along those lines -- but I feel that that can be a "dodgy" direction to go in: a potential road toward totalitarianism. A world without considerable latitude for basically harmless self-indulgence, even if the "goodthinkers" consider it silly and profitless; will tend to be a harsh and dreary one. And, once more as you say; often: different "punters" -- different priorities.

I think I once heard or read that the ideal heritage railway:
(1) actually served at least one town or point of interest other than the railway itself
(2) would be between 5 and 7 miles long thus giving a journey time of C20 - 30 minutes - long enough for an experience but not too long for children
(3) such a length would allow a reasonable frequency of service with just one loco in steam
(4) had a shop
(5) had a cafe / tea room/ refreshment facility
(6) had a car park
(7) had decent toilets

As posted by me earlier in this thread -- your items (6) and (7), mentioned to me by a couple of volunteers on an in my opinion "middling"-status preserved line: as pretty well the most "key" things looked for and appreciated by visiting "normals"; plus a perceivedly equally important one -- courtesy to them on the part of those working on the line, with whom they interact. I feel that, as per another recent poster, in various ways "it depends" -- different types of customer are liable to have different desiderata. A considerable number of posters in the thread, give scenic attractiveness (or lack thereof) on the line's route, as a factor of importance to them -- this, not an item on your list. (I tend to feel -- unkindly -- that "most 'normals' are basically Philistines": scenery unlikely to be of much importance to them.)

Whimsically -- re the "courtesy" factor: there are here and there in the world, (non-rail as far as I know) broadly "entertainment" venues whose gimmick is -- taking a "contrarian" / "interestingly different" path -- rudeness and unhelpfulness from the staff, vis-a-vis the clientele. In that spirit: I wonder whether there might be a viable niche for just one preserved line whose trade-mark was such behaviour by the staff -- in the same spirit, line running through unattractive industrial surroundings; locos and stock (in ways not prejudicial to passenger safety) deliberately dirty and unkempt -- hmm, probably not ...

 

[birchesgreen]

The Leighton Buzzard Light Railway has suffered over the years as the town has expanded.

It's route through what was originally open countryside is now bounded on one or both side by housing estates and industrial units for a significant length of the journey.

You see, i find that makes it more interesting. Especially when they stop traffic to let a train through. The works at either end of the line have great stock collections.

 

[73202]

Am I right in thinking as well the old Ais Gill summit signal box is also preserved at midland railway Centre also Swanwick jct as the demonstration box to play with the levers in as well?

Ex Ais Gill signal box is in operational use at Butterley station. The demonstration box at Swanwick is ex Linby Station.

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

Edit - Let’s add the 13 mile long Ffestiniog to that.

I do wish people had resisted the temptation to cite specific lines in support of their points of view.

 

[alexl92]

I think I once heard or read that the ideal heritage railway:
(1) actually served at least one town or point of interest other than the railway itself
(2) would be between 5 and 7 miles long thus giving a journey time of C20 - 30 minutes - long enough for an experience but not too long for children
(3) such a length would allow a reasonable frequency of service with just one loco in steam
(4) had a shop
(5) had a cafe / tea room/ refreshment facility
(6) had a car park
(7) had decent toilets

To me, you're describing the KWVR, with the possible exception of the toilets (which were a little bit 1960s from what I remember tho may have changed since).

5 miles long, has Haworth as a stop-off point, a couple of shops, a car park at Oxenhope and the exhibition shed as added interest.

I do wish people had resisted the temptation to cite specific lines in support of their points of view.

Why?

 

[John Luxton]

I do wish people had resisted the temptation to cite specific lines in support of their points of view.

I am generally of the belief as I have said earlier in this thread - one person's "boring" line might be another person's favourite.

I think this is more about what people perceive as boring / uninteresting from their personal point of view.

It should not be construed as being hostile to the lines concerned as we are but a small percentage of those travelling.

Perhaps the best place to assess public opinion is via Trip Advisor - there you will get a whole range of comments across a much wider spectrum from the silly and sometimes nasty to the very appreciative and enthusiastic.

Criticism does not have to be looked on as being hostile but also constructive and may assist some lines in upping their game. They might not be able to change the scenery - but there are possibly other things that can be done?

 

[paul1609]

In terms of income generation I did a study of most of the lines in the south east to see if there were any lessons to be learned for my railway but the reality is that the circumstances of each line varies greatly and what is a successful formula in one location often won't translate well in to another.

 

[geoffk]

The Fairbourne railway and the Evesham Vale Light Railway both have constructed tunnels with fake hills above them. Evesham Vale is Breeze blocks with concrete beams for the roof. Buy the bits for your tunnel at B & Q!!!

I assumed the Fairbourne's "Hornby Dublo" tunnel was put there to keep sand off the track.