WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[45076]

What is the actual cause of the delays in getting these things into traffic?

 

[vdriud]

Tell you what, though… when the 196s do eventually come into service, they’d better be worth the wait!

The one I inspected at Rail Live was impressive. Far more leg room than a Voyager and the wide vestibules make them feel like one long saloon.

I have always wondered why wide vestibules were not used on mainline stock before now?!

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this thread is a traction and rolling stock thread to discuss WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation.

If anyone wishes to discuss anything else please use or create a different thread (as appropriate); any speculative discussion must be posted exclusively in Speculative Discussion.

If you see a thread go off topic please don't post any further off topic replies; please report the first off topic post, using the report button.

thanks.

 

[warwickshire]

511 R 1342 Long Marston with 4 barrier vehicles and 196112 196105 returned today to Tyseley Depot from Long Marston.
However 196112 196105 now back at Tyseley around 60 late at Northfield.
37611 Pegasus was the Locomotive haulage for the units.
However 196112 196105 now back at Tyseley Depot from storage at Long Marston.

 

[Covshire1]

511 R 1342 Long Marston with 4 barrier vehicles and 196112 196105 returned today to Tyseley Depot from Long Marston.
However 196112 196105 now back at Tyseley around 60 late at Northfield.
37611 Pegasus was the Locomotive haulage for the units.
However 196112 196105 now back at Tyseley Depot from storage at Long Marston.

It was 112 + 005 which moved today.

 

[warwickshire]

It was 112 + 005 which moved today.

Correction was two car 196005. Typo error 196112 was behind the first barrier with two car 196005 next to it. Then was the other Barriers behind it.
With 37611 pegasus doing the honours.
Yep. Apologies for typo error most certainly was 196112 with two car 196005 now back at Tyseley.

 

[47593]

Anybody able to comment on which 196s were sat at Tyseley yesterday (Sunday 7th August)... wasn't expecting them at all (lack of planning) I swear one ended with a 7, but other than that "should have gone to Spec-Savers" applies

 

[GWVillager]

Anybody able to comment on which 196s were sat at Tyseley yesterday (Sunday 7th August)... wasn't expecting them at all (lack of planning) I swear one ended with a 7, but other than that "should have gone to Spec-Savers" applies

I’m afraid I don’t have any details on that but I recorded (admittedly from the far from perfect view of a passing 168!) 196101 and 196011 amongst a few others on the 26th. Correct me if I’m wrong but I doubt that there will have been much movement since then. Sorry if that’s too vague.

Are they still moving sets to Long Marston or is introduction close enough that they’ll leave them at Tyseley?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I’m afraid I don’t have any details on that but I recorded (admittedly from the far from perfect view of a passing 168!) 196101 and 196011 amongst a few others on the 26th. Correct me if I’m wrong but I doubt that there will have been much movement since then. Sorry if that’s too vague.

Are they still moving sets to Long Marston or is introduction close enough that they’ll leave them at Tyseley?

Training is underway so they may want to keep more units local right now as the company's aim is to utilise RDW for training so may need extra units on some days

 

[47593]

I’m afraid I don’t have any details on that but I recorded (admittedly from the far from perfect view of a passing 168!) 196101 and 196011 amongst a few others on the 26th. Correct me if I’m wrong but I doubt that there will have been much movement since then. Sorry if that’s too vague.

Are they still moving sets to Long Marston or is introduction close enough that they’ll leave them at Tyseley?

Hi, thanks.

I doubt it too, but I can wait to log them

Paul

 

[Jacob Porrett]

I’m afraid I don’t have any details on that but I recorded (admittedly from the far from perfect view of a passing 168!) 196101 and 196011 amongst a few others on the 26th. Correct me if I’m wrong but I doubt that there will have been much movement since then. Sorry if that’s too vague.

Are they still moving sets to Long Marston or is introduction close enough that they’ll leave them at Tyseley?

Last time I saw 196101 it was at Shrewsbury Abbey Foregate Sidings. Not sure if it's still there?

 

[superkev]

Im beginning to wonder if the 196s will ever enter service. Looking back on this thread its over 2 years since delivery comenced which must be some sort of record.
Bit off topic but does CAF in Wales still have any new build on the go.
Kev

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Im beginning to wonder if the 196s will ever enter service. Looking back on this thread its over 2 years since delivery comenced which must be some sort of record.
Bit off topic but does CAF in Wales still have any new build on the go.
Kev

I’m surprised you’re so shocked seeing as the 701 and 777 fleets are also badly, if not worse hit by the curse of acceptance into service. Someone posted above that there’s an estimation for them into service in Autumn. If that’s the case then they’re striding ahead of the other two.

 

[Energy]

I’m surprised you’re so shocked seeing as the 701 and 777 fleets are also badly, if not worse hit by the curse of acceptance into service. Someone posted above that there’s an estimation for them into service in Autumn. If that’s the case then they’re striding ahead of the other two.

The 777s don't seem to be problems with the trains but with negotiating with the unions. The 196s also had problems in that DCO hadn't been negotiated and guard panels hadn't been specified.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The 777s don't seem to be problems with the trains but with negotiating with the unions. The 196s also had problems in that DCO hadn't been negotiated and guard panels hadn't been specified.

Sure I know, I’m simply stating we have three fleets with rather long waits. Here’s hoping the worst will soon be over.

 

[Liam L]

Im beginning to wonder if the 196s will ever enter service. Looking back on this thread its over 2 years since delivery comenced which must be some sort of record.
Bit off topic but does CAF in Wales still have any new build on the go.
Kev

197s currently being built. Still one 196 unit left to come

 

[Wolfie]

196102 out to play on the Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury line. Departed Wellington heading for Salop just before midday.

 

[D365]

don't forget that due to our stupid railway each operator treats the stock as though its first of type and spends months running it up and down. when an airline buys an airbus its had a couple of take off /landing and 30min cruise and its good to go. Airline send a crew over to Hamburg they ferry back to UK in service the following day.

What a strange comment. Planes don’t interface with ground level infrastructure - not to the level at which trains do. And planes certainly don’t get held up in arguments about who should control the doors.

I hope you’re not suggesting that all safety and reliability testing should be scrapped or downgraded?

GN 387s don't have ETCS either, only the Heathrow Express units have it.

The design work done for the 387s is probably in a large part reusable on 379s.

Aside from the fact that Alstom won’t supply Bombardier ETCS anymore. But not sure why it was being discussed in this thread…

 

[GWVillager]

Last time I saw 196101 it was at Shrewsbury Abbey Foregate Sidings. Not sure if it's still there?

Sorry for the late reply! The last time I say Shrewsbury there wasn't a 196 in the sidings, though there may have been one hidden behind another train, I didn't look too closely. Is it possible that 101 was moved, were there any pathings that could have carried it? If not, it's entirely possible that I misidentified 196 107 or something, as mentioned I was hardly in the best viewing position!


Apologies if this has come up before, but is there any reason why the 196s are being tested on the Stratford line? As far as I'm aware there's no requirement for them to be used there, or are there the occasional 170 diagrams?

 

[Chris172]

Sorry for the late reply! The last time I say Shrewsbury there wasn't a 196 in the sidings, though there may have been one hidden behind another train, I didn't look too closely. Is it possible that 101 was moved, were there any pathings that could have carried it? If not, it's entirely possible that I misidentified 196 107 or something, as mentioned I was hardly in the best viewing position!


Apologies if this has come up before, but is there any reason why the 196s are being tested on the Stratford line? As far as I'm aware there's no requirement for them to be used there, or are there the occasional 170 diagrams?

I think they are running mileage runs on the snow hill lines and I believe any extra 196s will be doing some snow hill runs once the all units have been introduced on the salop and Hereford line

 

[43074]

What a strange comment. Planes don’t interface with ground level infrastructure - not to the level at which trains do. And planes certainly don’t get held up in arguments about who should control the doors.

I hope you’re not suggesting that all safety and reliability testing should be scrapped or downgraded?

It's certainly not ridiculous to ask why it should take 2.5 years from the first unit being delivered to Tyseley and the units still haven't carried a single passenger though, pandemic or not. Especially when the similar 195s have been in service for getting on for 3 years now.

 

[D365]

It's certainly not ridiculous to ask why it should take 2.5 years from the first unit being delivered to Tyseley and the units still haven't carried a single passenger though, pandemic or not. Especially when the similar 195s have been in service for getting on for 3 years now.

Because of the guards dispute. The door control retrofit has been a significant money/time expense.

 

[Undiscovered]

Because of the guards dispute. The door control retrofit has been a significant money/time expense.

Part of it, yes.
There's also been a lot of other issues going on, and a lot still to be resolved. Some are structural, some electronic.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Train crew training is now coming along, latest figures were 24 drivers/7 guards passed out so clearly a push to get drivers out first understandably.

 

[GWVillager]

On another, less subjective, note, how are the 196s going to be introduced? Will the entire Shrewsbury workings move over before Hereford is started on or will it be alternating? Sorry if this has come up before, I'm still relitavely new to this forum.

 

[43102EMR]

WMR’s Twitter team seem to suggest a September introduction for the 196s https://twitter.com/westmidrailway/status/1561742074613043201?s=21&t=ZUGzzGPGNpZ2M63rULVd3w

Hi there. We're still hopeful that they'll be introduced, at least in part, by the end of September.

 

[newtownmgr]

WMR’s Twitter team seem to suggest a September introduction for the 196s https://twitter.com/westmidrailway/status/1561742074613043201?s=21&t=ZUGzzGPGNpZ2M63rULVd3w

On Shrewsbury’s yes. We won’t start learning them until later this year at Worcester

 

[GWVillager]

Anyway, to bring this back on topic slightly, it seems WMR have acknowledged that there is little need for 3 coach trains, but exactly why they've ordered 2 coach trains I'm not sure. There doesn't seem to be any instance when they won't be doubled up. Flexibility is the common explanation, but flexibility for what?

On Shrewsbury’s yes. We won’t start learning them until later this year at Worcester

Would introduction overlap with the December timetable change or with little difference in timings would that not really be something they do? I'm assuming they won't be fully in service on Shrewsbury's by then.

 

[LowLevel]

Anyway, to bring this back on topic slightly, it seems WMR have acknowledged that there is little need for 3 coach trains, but exactly why they've ordered 2 coach trains I'm not sure. There doesn't seem to be any instance when they won't be doubled up. Flexibility is the common explanation, but flexibility for what?


Would introduction overlap with the December timetable change or with little difference in timings would that not really be something they do? I'm assuming they won't be fully in service on Shrewsbury's by then.

Having 2 cars can certainly help with flexibility in servicing, shunting and stabling on maintenance depots.

 

[Class172]

Anyway, to bring this back on topic slightly, it seems WMR have acknowledged that there is little need for 3 coach trains, but exactly why they've ordered 2 coach trains I'm not sure. There doesn't seem to be any instance when they won't be doubled up. Flexibility is the common explanation, but flexibility for what?

Allows for the formation of 6 carriage services as and when required at peak times etc, which practically speaking is likely the maximum length the Hereford Line services would ever see.