WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

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Bletchleyite

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Fainsa LEAN? Looks like.

Are they going for a hybrid solution of 2+2 but armrests and a width somewhere between a regular 3+2 and 2+2 seat to maximise standing space while maintaining at least a bit of comfort, perhaps? Not an altogether terrible idea. Should perhaps flog a job lot to Thameslink.

"Wings" look low down though, could have the same "back of shoulders" issue the Class 800 seats do.
 

Domh245

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Fainsa LEAN? Looks like.

Are they going for a hybrid solution of 2+2 but armrests and a width somewhere between a regular 3+2 and 2+2 seat to maximise standing space while maintaining at least a bit of comfort, perhaps? Not an altogether terrible idea. Should perhaps flog a job lot to Thameslink.

"Wings" look low down though, could have the same "back of shoulders" issue the Class 800 seats do.

FISA made the LEAN, not Fainsa (who are responsible for the seats in the 700s and 800s, amongst others). Perhaps not surprising given that Abellio went with LEANs on the anglian flirts, and it does make me think that (at least some of) the Aventras for LNWR will have similar interiors to those of the anglian Aventras.
 

Class172

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The fact that there has been an announcement solely regarding seating gives the impression to me that someone in the design team has being paying attention to the news, specifically over opinions of the 'ironing board' Fainsa seats. Least to say I am pleased by this.

I'm still rather confused about how these units are going to be used, given what appears to be contradictory information in the article:
...set to be introduced on the Birmingham Snow Hill lines in Summer 2020.
followed later by
The new Class 196 units will have additional capacity in comparison to existing West Midlands Trains regional fleets and the final design scheme allows improved seat pitch and window views in all positions.
The existing regional fleets are the 170s, which (bar a couple of exceptions) do not operate on the Snow Hill Lines. The indication that consideration is being given to window alignment strongly supports a regional-style train, so is the intention to change the Stratford-upon-Avon services to 196s, and leave the core workings to the 172s? Surely then this also applies to the Hereford/Shrewsbury services - there doesn't seem to be any evidence to suggest either way? :s
 

Bletchleyite

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FISA made the LEAN, not Fainsa (who are responsible for the seats in the 700s and 800s, amongst others). Perhaps not surprising given that Abellio went with LEANs on the anglian flirts, and it does make me think that (at least some of) the Aventras for LNWR will have similar interiors to those of the anglian Aventras.

TBH I'd take that, while it is 3+2 it is *much* better than the 350/2 interior, e.g. there are seat back tables.
 

mde

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FISA made the LEAN, not Fainsa (who are responsible for the seats in the 700s and 800s, amongst others). Perhaps not surprising given that Abellio went with LEANs on the anglian flirts, and it does make me think that (at least some of) the Aventras for LNWR will have similar interiors to those of the anglian Aventras.
If the Aventra's are sharing then they could use the Kiel seating that Greater Anglia are rolling out (I think it's from the Trend series but could be wrong)

For those who wonder about the FISA Lean, GA also have a video showing that one.

A commonality between West Midlands and Greater Anglia, aside from Abellio, is that they have both used Schoenemann Design as consultants. I would have said this is a good thing, given the emphasis on comfort… but, I'm minded that they did the interiors of the Desiro City 700s that Thameslink have, and, we know how that went…
 

Domh245

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A commonality between West Midlands and Greater Anglia, aside from Abellio, is that they have both used Schoenemann Design as consultants. I would have said this is a good thing, given the emphasis on comfort… but, I'm minded that they did the interiors of the Desiro City 700s that Thameslink have, and, we know how that went…

Schoenemann will have worked to whatever brief was given to them, and I suspect that the briefs for the 700 and the Anglia fleets were quite different (the latter having quite an emphasis on "not another 700")
 

mde

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Schoenemann will have worked to whatever brief was given to them, and I suspect that the briefs for the 700 and the Anglia fleets were quite different (the latter having quite an emphasis on "not another 700")
Very true - it is just a bit of a kicker for the Thameslink punters (and, of course, Northern, who picked the seats anyway).
 

Bletchleyite

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Very true - it is just a bit of a kicker for the Thameslink punters (and, of course, Northern, who picked the seats anyway).

Northern, who did a survey (which I think came down in favour of the FISA LEAN, didn't it?) and then ignored it. Typical arrogant Arriva.
 

jhy44

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Seems like a bit of a lost opportunity to not have ordered these as bi-modes.

Birmingham-Shrewsbury is wired Bham-Wolves.
Birmingham-Hereford is wired Bham-Bromsgrove (small gaps on the slow Kings Norton - Longbridge yes but small job to fill).

Would both reduce pollution at New Street, lower fuel cost, and future-proof against hopeful further eletrification.
 

Class172

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From the thread WMTrains livery and station branding:

The photos look like they were taken inside a finished CAF unit. Nothing confirmed as of yet but they are not preliminary designs thats for sure

https://resources.mynewsdesk.com/image/upload/t_attachment/axjniqwus1pmkqwlcebp.pdf
Pages 43-50 show some pictures from what appears to be a complete class 196 carriage. If nothing else, the appearance of the chosen seats gives me confidence that they will be rather comfortable, and could turn out to be rather good units.
 

superalbs

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Pages 43-50 show some pictures from what appears to be a complete class 196 carriage. If nothing else, the appearance of the chosen seats gives me confidence that they will be rather comfortable, and could turn out to be rather good units.
The fact the interior is being fitted out suggests that these trains must be nearing completion?

Hopefully not long until some pictures of some vehicles appear. The renders make them look very stylish.
 

Bletchleyite

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From the thread WMTrains livery and station branding:


Pages 43-50 show some pictures from what appears to be a complete class 196 carriage. If nothing else, the appearance of the chosen seats gives me confidence that they will be rather comfortable, and could turn out to be rather good units.

They appear to be FISA LEAN seats which are the same as Abellio are using on the Greater Anglia FLIRTs. Unlike other TOCs they don't seem to be going for the bare minimum cheapest option for seats, which is promising, even for the 3+2 seated Aventras for the WCML, though I must admit that the proposed use of the Class 800 Fainsa seats for First Class is beyond madness.

FWIW, I'm presently on a refurbed SWR Class 444, and I popped through to try the new 2+2 First Class which appears to have these seats, and for a Standard Class seat they seem excellent - from a very brief go possibly the best Standard Class seat on the network, though I'd have to do a long trip in one to see if they beat the Grammer IC3000, but I'm not paying Weekend First for a 2+2 seat with no extra legroom, so the E3000 in Standard it is.

They also aren't anywhere near as narrow as the picture implies, they are the same width as the Grammer E3000 standard Desiro 2+2 seat.
 

Old Hill Bank

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From the thread WMTrains livery and station branding:


Pages 43-50 show some pictures from what appears to be a complete class 196 carriage. If nothing else, the appearance of the chosen seats gives me confidence that they will be rather comfortable, and could turn out to be rather good units.
The presentation does at least confirm that the 196s will be focused on the Birmingham to Hereford and Shrewsbury routes and not "80 new" for Snow Hill Lines. Lets hope CAF have sorted out the 195 issues before these are delivered!
 

superalbs

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No armrests, but other than the pair by the bog they appear to have an armrest width divider similar to Merseyrail 50x and Class 172. I believe they are intended to be equivalent to the latter so this makes sense.
Yep - certainly not complaining given the state of many other interiors these days!
 

hwl

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Schoenemann will have worked to whatever brief was given to them, and I suspect that the briefs for the 700 and the Anglia fleets were quite different (the latter having quite an emphasis on "not another 700")
The 700 brief was effectively written 12 years ago by DfT and ended up sitting on the shelf for a while...

Hence lessons had already been learnt but it wasn't refreshed.
 

Prestige15

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Northern, who did a survey (which I think came down in favour of the FISA LEAN, didn't it?) and then ignored it. Typical arrogant Arriva.

I remember that when they did that survey in Leeds and Blackpool, They overwhelmingly voted 'B' (Fisa Lean) then northern ignored them and picked those nasty seats instead and to add insult to injury they added thoses seats to the class 158's!

However they do look slightly more comfortable than class 700/387's seats, Need to see people's feedback on those who traveled on the refurbish 158
 

Bletchleyite

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I remember that when they did that survey in Leeds and Blackpool, They overwhelmingly voted 'B' (Fisa Lean) then northern ignored them and picked those nasty seats instead and to add insult to injury they added thoses seats to the class 158's!

The classic lesson there - if you don't want the answer don't ask the question, all it does is make you look stupid.

However they do look slightly more comfortable than class 700/387's seats, Need to see people's feedback on those who traveled on the refurbish 158

I believe they have used the contoured base favoured by ScotRail rather than the flat one used by GTR. Having sat on the two side by side on the ScotRail demo mock-up I can confirm it makes a big difference. Feels about the same as the Desiro seat.
 

VT 390

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I remember that when they did that survey in Leeds and Blackpool, They overwhelmingly voted 'B' (Fisa Lean) then northern ignored them and picked those nasty seats instead and to add insult to injury they added thoses seats to the class 158's!

However they do look slightly more comfortable than class 700/387's seats, Need to see people's feedback on those who traveled on the refurbish 158

I travelled on a refurbished Northern 158 last Monday and the seats are quite hard to sit on but not as bad as the class 700 seats and I thought the width on them was good.
 

Prestige15

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I travelled on a refurbished Northern 158 last Monday and the seats are quite hard to sit on but not as bad as the class 700 seats and I thought the width on them was good.

I have been on the 700's and i can say, sitting on the floor would be more comfortable. Judgeing buy the look of northern's seats it does look like they gave some extra paddings to it, particularly on the backrest.

The 196 seats kinda reminds me of early turbostars and the train itself looks far superior compared to the 195, Northen must be scratching their heads by now
 

Class172

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The 196 seats kinda reminds me of early turbostars and the train itself looks far superior compared to the 195, Northen must be scratching their heads by now
Given Hereford and Shrewsbury Line passengers have been used to said turbostar seats for nearly 20 years, the apparent similar appearance will probably help with passenger reception when they arrive.
 

RealTrains07

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The fact that there has been an announcement solely regarding seating gives the impression to me that someone in the design team has being paying attention to the news, specifically over opinions of the 'ironing board' Fainsa seats. Least to say I am pleased by this.

I'm still rather confused about how these units are going to be used, given what appears to be contradictory information in the article:

followed later by

The existing regional fleets are the 170s, which (bar a couple of exceptions) do not operate on the Snow Hill Lines. The indication that consideration is being given to window alignment strongly supports a regional-style train, so is the intention to change the Stratford-upon-Avon services to 196s, and leave the core workings to the 172s? Surely then this also applies to the Hereford/Shrewsbury services - there doesn't seem to be any evidence to suggest either way? :s

I heard that the trains are due to start being rolled out at the end of this year alongside the arrival of the LNR 350/4s
 

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