Royal Mail discussion

[Typhoon]

And now they want us to start at 10am. Won't be out on delivery until noon.

I gather it is something to do with ensuring that first class mail gets delivered next day (although, with mail being delivered around 3pm-4pm, the chances of getting a reply in the post the same day don't seem to be so great).

I asked the local postmen and they are dead against and they make a difference round our way. I have been hoping to be invited to sign a petition - I am usually sent that sort of thing.

As I stated earlier it's not all bad as there are still a plethora of "Spanish Customs" operating within Royal Mail which benefit the workforce.

For example how many organisations of it's size still run a weekly payroll ?

I usually think of the term 'Spanish Practices' or 'Spanish Customs' as something a little bit dodgy or verging on it. The example given is a perfectly straight forward way of paying staff - not many organisations may do it but that is up to Royal Mail. I would be interested in when, say, staff will be paid for the week 12th-17th September; when I worked I was paid monthly but some days before the end of the month so the pay for the last few days was paid in advance, it is just a different way of paying staff..

 

[tigerroar]

The PDA's that we carry tell them exactly where we are at what time. Anyone who finishes early don't finish early for long. That opinion isn't really valid here.

I gather it is something to do with ensuring that first class mail gets delivered next day (although, with mail being delivered around 3pm-4pm, the chances of getting a reply in the post the same day don't seem to be so great).

I asked the local postmen and they are dead against and they make a difference round our way. I have been hoping to be invited to sign a petition - I am usually sent that sort of thing.


I usually think of the term 'Spanish Practices' or 'Spanish Customs' as something a little bit dodgy or verging on it. The example given is a perfectly straight forward way of paying staff - not many organisations may do it but that is up to Royal Mail. I would be interested in when, say, staff will be paid for the week 12th-17th September; when I worked I was paid monthly but some days before the end of the month so the pay for the last few days was paid in advance, it is just a different way of paying staff..

No, the later starts are to tie in with later accepted tracked (LAT's) items so that people can order things online later in the day and still get it next day. Might sound great from the companies point of view but not so much for those of us with children and other commitments. No more football on a saturday afternoon either.

Another grievance is annualised hours. They say it's quite in the summer so any hours they clock us making in the summer will be used in the winter when it's busier. Problem is, they give us that much work all the year round that we rarely make any time in the summer.

 

[Dai Corner]

The PDA's that we carry tell them exactly where we are at what time. Anyone who finishes early don't finish early for long. That opinion isn't really valid here.

Do Managers actively check where their staff are at all times?

No, the later starts are to tie in with later accepted tracked (LAT's) items so that people can order things online later in the day and still get it next day. Might sound great from the companies point of view but not so much for those of us with children and other commitments. No more football on a saturday afternoon either.

Obviously RM could decide not to bid for such business. They'd need fewer staff though.

Another grievance is annualised hours. They say it's quite in the summer so any hours they clock us making in the summer will be used in the winter when it's busier. Problem is, they give us that much work all the year round that we rarely make any time in the summer.

You do get paid for every hour you work though, surely?

 

[tigerroar]

They can check the PDA actuals the following day, they aren't "live".

Why do you think they'd have fewer staff? They'd still have the business, though the later orders wouldn't be next day items.

Yes, we get paid more for every hour we work. We also have enough work to fill that time and when we don't we are given extra.

 

[Dai Corner]

Why do you think they'd have fewer staff? They'd still have the business, though the later orders wouldn't be next day items.

The later orders (or more likely the whole contract) would go to somebody who wanted it and could provide the service the customer wanted.

 

[Typhoon]

Another grievance is annualised hours. They say it's quite in the summer so any hours they clock us making in the summer will be used in the winter when it's busier. Problem is, they give us that much work all the year round that we rarely make any time in the summer.

I saw one of our postmen was delivering after 5pm because he was covering for the other one who was off (and seemed to be doing that quite a lot according to neighbours). Although he's probably on overtime, he won't be clocking up many hours to weigh against excess hours in the winter. And we still get the junk mail to be delivered to 'The occupier' of each property - whether occupied or not. At the moment it is broadband ('Connect up to 80 devices at once' - I haven't got eight never mind 80! We are pensioners!)

 

[Dai Corner]

They can check the PDA actuals the following day, they aren't "live".

Do they actually do so on a routine basis, or only if there's a problem reported? In other words, as long as the job gets done without anyone complaining nobody minds when you go home.

 

[tigerroar]

I can't honestly answer that, I've only ever seen mine once. You'd be a fool to think they're not looking at them!

I saw one of our postmen was delivering after 5pm because he was covering for the other one who was off (and seemed to be doing that quite a lot according to neighbours). Although he's probably on overtime, he won't be clocking up many hours to weigh against excess hours in the winter. And we still get the junk mail to be delivered to 'The occupier' of each property - whether occupied or not. At the moment it is broadband ('Connect up to 80 devices at once' - I haven't got eight never mind 80! We are pensioners!)

The D2d's make RM a lot of money. They take a lot of time to prep and you can have as many as 7 different leaflets per week. As I said, plenty of work to fill our hours. It's nonsense talking about Spanish Practices.

The later orders (or more likely the whole contract) would go to somebody who wanted it and could provide the service the customer wanted.

Let them have it, there's plenty of work to go around and there will be more and more year after year.

 

[gswindale]

Has anybody done any analysis of junk mail conversion rates?

I'd much prefer it if RM did not deliver it - it all goes straight into the recycling, so by cutting down on that and reducing deliveries to 4 out of 7 days, they could improve their environmental credentials no end.

I'm also amazed that somebody here has stated that RM pay their staff weekly. - that must be costing a small fortune in bank charges, and also negatively affecting cash flow. Would save a whole lot of money and admin overheads if they paid monthly (or four weekly).

 

[tigerroar]

They've been trying to move to monthly pay for years, it's been resisted by the union.

Why are people so keen to reduce delivery days? Having two days worth of mail to deliver in one day is a killer. That would lead to jobs not getting completed and a constant backlog. It's probably best not to comment on it if you don't understand the implications.

 

[Dai Corner]

They've been trying to move to monthly pay for years, it's been resisted by the union.

Why? Pretty much all bills are monthly and having different numbers of paydays between them would seem to make budgeting more difficult.

Why are people so keen to reduce delivery days? Having two days worth of mail to deliver in one day is a killer. That would lead to jobs not getting completed and a constant backlog. It's probably best not to comment on it if you don't understand the implications.

I only get post delivered two or three days a week. If that's typical, you're walking past 50% or more of houses every day. Delivering to different areas on different days should mean fewer miles to walk in total and less wasted time. That would mean fewer delivery staff required, but I'm sure the CWU realise that.

 

[gswindale]

They've been trying to move to monthly pay for years, it's been resisted by the union.

Why are people so keen to reduce delivery days? Having two days worth of mail to deliver in one day is a killer. That would lead to jobs not getting completed and a constant backlog. It's probably best not to comment on it if you don't understand the implications.

Because on the majority of days we get post, it is only junk mail. If you stopped delivering the stuff that 99.8% of people recycle without looking at, then you'd have less to deliver.

It seems here that there is a disconnect between all of what management, the staff, and the customer want, other than that both the delivery staff and residential customers would prefer "less post", as I'd have less recycling to do and your round could be done quicker as you wouldn't have to visit umpteen houses delivering garbage that they don't want.

 

[Dai Corner]

Because on the majority of days we get post, it is only junk mail. If you stopped delivering the stuff that 99.8% of people recycle without looking at, then you'd have less to deliver.

It seems here that there is a disconnect between all of what management, the staff, and the customer want, other than that both the delivery staff and residential customers would prefer "less post", as I'd have less recycling to do and your round could be done quicker as you wouldn't have to visit umpteen houses delivering garbage that they don't want.

I think the delivery staff and Union want as much junk mail as possible to maximum numbers and the management do too as long it's profitable.

 

[gswindale]

I think the delivery staff and Union want as much junk mail as possible to maximum numbers and the management do too as long it's profitable.

Fair point - I suppose it helps them play the "hard done by" card rather than thinking about how to improve the business.

 

[XAM2175]

For comparison, how recently was it - if at all - that being paid weekly was abolished on the railways?

 

[tigerroar]

Fair point - I suppose it helps them play the "hard done by" card rather than thinking about how to improve the business.

hard done by?

 

[gswindale]

hard done by?

You complain about the extra work supposedly caused by reducing the number of deliveries per week, but then also complain against the suggestion that RM should stop delivering "junk mail".

If you stopped delivering "junk mail", then that would save a minute or so per property on my street, so if nobody on our street has any post on a given day (a high possibility these days), then you'd save at least an hours walking. Would make your life easier, but you're against that, so yes you want to play the "hard done by" card by saying that reducing deliveries would increase your workload.

 

[tigerroar]

so if nobody on our street has any post on a given day (a high possibility these days)

not a chance. even on the lightest days sods law dictates that we have one letter for all four points of the compass.

 

[gswindale]

so is it really worth driving up a street to deliver 1 letter?

Surely it is better to save it for the next day when you may have 25?

We had precisely 2 items of post today - one addressed to a "T H E Occupier" (never heard of them and they don't live here) and another was a marketing thing from the AA addressed to myself. No real urgency for either of those to have been delivered, so if there was little else for our street (I suspect not thanks to whoever seems to be addressing stuff to T H E Occupier), then it could all have easily waited.

By all means, deliver if there is Special/Recorded Delivery, but given the amount of real post is diminishing, do we really need a 6 day a week delivery service?

 

[tigerroar]

we can't, we're obliged to deliver every letter every day because of the universal service obligation. Same price for a letter from you to next door or you to the outer hebrides, unless that's where you live

 

[najaB]

so is it really worth driving up a street to deliver 1 letter?

Surely it is better to save it for the next day when you may have 25?

As @tigerroar says, Royal Mail is obliged - by law - to deliver mail within the stated delivery times, unless force majeure applies. The postie can't just decide that he/she can't be bothered.

 

[Typhoon]

we can't, we're obliged to deliver every letter every day because of the universal service obligation. Same price for a letter from you to next door or you to the outer hebrides, unless that's where you live

Surely, it is even more important than that. You, as a postman. have no way of deciding how important a letter is from the outside, you can make assumptions but that is it, most will be right, but occasionally you won't be and that might have consequences.
The idea that a road shouldn't have letters delivered because there is only one letter for that road doesn't worry me - there is one chap in our road who gets lots of post (quite a few catalogues, but he orders stuff from catalogues, so they are not rubbish to him, some official stuff because of past associations - he asks me to move his post so it is less visible when he is out), So we would get a very regular postal service (guess five days out of six at least) because Derek lives in the road while others get occasional post. this seems bizarre.

If the service is going to be changed from the six days a week to all (except in exceptional circumstances). it will be decided not by an individual postman, manager or anyone at Royal Mail, it will be decided by HMG. in particular by the Secretary of State for Business. Should he so decide I would expect whoever delivers the post to West Harptree in North East Somerset will have a dramatic increase in workload with sacks of irate letters from Tory voters.

 

[Dai Corner]

Surely, it is even more important than that. You, as a postman. have no way of deciding how important a letter is from the outside, you can make assumptions but that is it, most will be right, but occasionally you won't be and that might have consequences.
The idea that a road shouldn't have letters delivered because there is only one letter for that road doesn't worry me - there is one chap in our road who gets lots of post (quite a few catalogues, but he orders stuff from catalogues, so they are not rubbish to him, some official stuff because of past associations - he asks me to move his post so it is less visible when he is out), So we would get a very regular postal service (guess five days out of six at least) because Derek lives in the road while others get occasional post. this seems bizarre.

If the service is going to be changed from the six days a week to all (except in exceptional circumstances). it will be decided not by an individual postman, manager or anyone at Royal Mail, it will be decided by HMG. in particular by the Secretary of State for Business. Should he so decide I would expect whoever delivers the post to West Harptree in North East Somerset will have a dramatic increase in workload with sacks of irate letters from Tory voters.

Would Derek care whether he got a catalogue every day or several catalogues a couple of days a week?

Would his neighbours notice how often they got their post?

 

[najaB]

Would Derek care whether he got a catalogue every day or several catalogues a couple of days a week?

Would his neighbours notice how often they got their post?

It's okay to break the law as long as you don't get found out?

 

[Dai Corner]

It's okay to break the law as long as you don't get found out?

Obviously not. But does the law need to be changed so that RM can provide a service acceptable to the majority at lower cost? 95p is more than I spend on most cards I post (and that is all I post).

 

[Darandio]

Obviously not. But does the law need to be changed so that RM can provide a service acceptable to the majority at lower cost? 95p is more than I spend on most cards I post (and that is all I post).

95p is unreasonable to get a card delivered the next day? I believe that it took them too long to actually increase the price, it's not that long ago that it was only 41p.

 

[najaB]

95p is more than I spend on most cards I post (and that is all I post).

Less than one pound to get an letter delivered, next day, from one end of the country to the other is actually pretty good value.

 

[tigerroar]

Obviously not. But does the law need to be changed so that RM can provide a service acceptable to the majority at lower cost? 95p is more than I spend on most cards I post (and that is all I post).

95p is decent value to send a card to the outer hebrides though isn't it?

Just watch, if the USO goes then that will cost at least £9.50 (which will still be good value)

 

[Dai Corner]

95p is decent value to send a card to the outer hebrides though isn't it?

Just watch, if the USO goes then that will cost at least £9.50 (which will still be good value)

60p would be better value. I'm not worried if it takes 5 or 6 days to get there.

 

[Darandio]

60p would be better value. I'm not worried if it takes 5 or 6 days to get there.

Then send it 2nd class?