Do you notice how a Driver drives?

[387star]

On a plane recently a passenger commented that a good pilot will not stop before takeoff. I've no idea if this was a fair comment but got me thinking does the average Joe notice if the train is being driven in a markedly different manner signal checks aside?

 

[Trainrave]

As a driver who also travels as a passenger on my core route, I occasionally notice different driving styles (usually what I feel like is harsh braking and a lower/higher speed that I would consider normal for a particular location) but not often.

 

[TheEdge]

On a plane recently a passenger commented that a good pilot will not stop before takeoff. I've no idea if this was a fair comment...

It isn't really. If a pilot has been instructed to "line up and wait" then they should very much be stopping before take off. Nothing to do with skill.

 

[DerekC]

The most obvious difference is in the approach to a stop, seen best from the platform a long way from the stop board. The differences there are sometimes quite obvious, with some drivers approaching very cautiously and some much faster and with harsher and later braking. (That assumes, of course, that the platform starter is showing clear)

 

[Jimini]

On a plane recently a passenger commented that a good pilot will not stop before takeoff.

ATC must love him / her!

 

[Watershed]

It isn't really. If a pilot has been instructed to "line up and wait" then they should very much be stopping before take off. Nothing to do with skill.

Indeed and it's often a good idea to stop just before applying takeoff power/thrust and make sure you have in mind what your departure instructions are, what your contingency plan is if things go wrong and so forth.

Obviously that's not an option if you've accepted an expedited takeoff, so you should only do so if you've already gone through that thought process at the holding point.

 

[Egg Centric]

On a plane recently a passenger commented that a good pilot will not stop before takeoff. I've no idea if this was a fair comment but got me thinking does the average Joe notice if the train is being driven in a markedly different manner signal checks aside?

Can’t speak for the “average joe” but me? Massively so. With every form of transport actually. Think the term is “sensitive arse” (quite counter intuitive given the size of mine).

That doesn’t mean I necessarily “pass judgement” upon the driver. In the aviation example for instance, generally a total greaser, lovey as it may feel, is not what you want to be doing with a passenger jet. I know just enough about train driving to know I don’t know enough to critique any particular drive unless extreme - merely to observe the differences. I certainly know enough to critique most car drivers’ driving but don’t we all!

I have a thread open here actually asking about IET driving technique cause of these jerks I’ve consistently felt when they’re driven at low speed.

 

[zwk500]

On a plane recently a passenger commented that a good pilot will not stop before takeoff. I've no idea if this was a fair comment

The more common assessment of a Pilot's skill is that a good pilot never puts themselves in a situation where you have to find out exactly how good they are. As others have said, when you're on the ground, if ATC tell you to stop you stop and there's no two ways about it.

 

[Huntergreed]

On a plane recently a passenger commented that a good pilot will not stop before takeoff. I've no idea if this was a fair comment but got me thinking does the average Joe notice if the train is being driven in a markedly different manner signal checks aside?

What a ridiculous comment from your fellow passenger!

Many ATC facilities will instruct pilots to “line up and wait”, meaning to enter the runway, face the direction of takeoff (normally upwind) and stop the aircraft.

Many pilots will also need time to calculate or confirm departure performance (we have a lot to bear in mind! Weight and balance, takeoff velocities, power settings, SID/departure clearance, autopilot procedure/configuration, post departure communications and the potential for an aborted takeoff or an engine failure after takeoff!) - I would go as far to say a good pilot will stop and evaluate all data and information before sending several thousand tons of metal filled with hundreds of people down a concrete strip with the purpose of generating enough lift to move the aircraft into flight, as opposed to mindlessly sending a plane into the air without hesitation.

I suppose on the railway similar principles apply - a good driver will wait for a few seconds, recall the PSR, ensure there are no TSR/ESR’s in place, double check the signal, check the next scheduled stop and ensure full understanding before applying power to commit to a fully safe departure

To me, a good driver is one who has such a thorough level of route and traction knowledge that they’re not only able to get the train there safely, but know how to apply power and braking to maximise passenger comfort throughout.

 

[Stigy]

I’d like to think the general public appreciate a “soft stop”, but in reality I think they don’t really pay much attention as long as they’re not delayed.

I notice different styles of driving, and sometimes make a conscious effort to see if driving styles differ from mine, and use it as a basis for potentially changing what I do.

 

[Huntergreed]

I’d like to think the general public appreciate a “soft stop”, but in reality I think they don’t really pay much attention as long as they’re not delayed.

I certainly do - I think the difference is more appreciated in intercity TOC’s (people expect a much more professional driving style on an Avanti 390 or LNER 801 than a Northern/Scotrail 156!)

I notice different styles of driving, and sometimes make a conscious effort to see if driving styles differ from mine, and use it as a basis for potentially changing what I do.

I’m not a driver but always like to learn about the traction and route I’m on from the driving style used!

 

[Egg Centric]

I notice different styles of driving, and sometimes make a conscious effort to see if driving styles differ from mine, and use it as a basis for potentially changing what I do.

Are you able to give an example of that or does it require too much background knowledge to reasonably explain to a layman?

 

[Stigy]

Are you able to give an example of that or does it require too much background knowledge to reasonably explain to a layman?

Just differing braking points to mine, using higher braking steps (the trains I drive use steps for braking - 1, 2, 3 or emergency), higher platform entry speeds etc. I like to stop softly as it’s nice and smooth, but some drivers just leave it in step two until they stop. By a soft stop I mean releasing the brake momentarily immediately before you stop. Similar to how one stops a car generally. Some trains require you to stop like this anyway or you’ll come up in a heap (trains with tread brakes as opposed to discs/pads).

 

[LiftFan]

I often notice different driving styles depending on what train I'm on- Mk3 hauled trains for instance, some drivers have a good knack for accelerating at the right rate to not make the carriages lurch. Not a good feeling when on a sleeper train! The Bakerloo line certainly has a variety, some drivers seem to be very sluggish on clear signals but others will fly round the corners and into the station, and then start opening the doors before the train has even fully stopped! Most noticeable differences on Sprinters are the drivers who gradually step up the notches vs the drivers who seem to whack it on full early on.

 

[pompeyfan]

One thing I have noticed is that there seems to be a difference in policy across the TOCs near me (not really a surprise I guess). There are a lot of low speed TPWS grids near me due to buffer stops, L/X etc. 2 of the TOCs pass over the grids and then continue to coast to their stopping point. On the 3rd TOC after they’ve passed the grids they’ll take power (I’d guess notch 1 or similar), and then brake heavily. Made me feel nervous the first time I experienced it.

 

[ComUtoR]

On the routes I drive a tend to passively drive along and almost predict what's happening. The slightest change and my brain kicks in and alerts me.

As a general passenger on other route I generally don't care and just chill.

 

[Stigy]

One thing I have noticed is that there seems to be a difference in policy across the TOCs near me (not really a surprise I guess). There are a lot of low speed TPWS grids near me due to buffer stops, L/X etc. 2 of the TOCs pass over the grids and then continue to coast to their stopping point. On the 3rd TOC after they’ve passed the grids they’ll take power (I’d guess notch 1 or similar), and then brake heavily. Made me feel nervous the first time I experienced it.

That really goes against the grain lol. Effectively taking power towards a red signal unless you’re really losing speed quickly isn’t something I’d be comfortable with.

 

[DarloRich]

I only notice if he or she spills my tea!

Expect that one GC driver who was clearly on a promise. Flew like the star ship enterprise between Kings Cross and York!

 

[DelW]

I like to stop softly as it’s nice and smooth, but some drivers just leave it in step two until they stop. By a soft stop I mean releasing the brake momentarily immediately before you stop. Similar to how one stops a car generally. Some trains require you to stop like this anyway or you’ll come up in a heap (trains with tread brakes as opposed to discs/pads).

That's the main driving technique I notice - if the brakes are still fully on as the train stops you end up lurching just as you're picking up luggage, trying to press door buttons, etc. A soft stop is definitely appreciated!

Many pilots will also need time to calculate or confirm departure performance (we have a lot to bear in mind! Weight and balance, takeoff velocities, power settings, SID/departure clearance, autopilot procedure/configuration, post departure communications and the potential for an aborted takeoff or an engine failure after takeoff!) - I would go as far to say a good pilot will stop and evaluate all data and information before sending several thousand tons of metal filled with hundreds of people down a concrete strip with the purpose of generating enough lift to move the aircraft into flight, as opposed to mindlessly sending a plane into the air without hesitation.

What? Even an A380 is under 600t maximum take off weight! (Not that that invalidates your point, just my engineering brain reacts to these things )

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I generally don't pay attention really. A knowledgeable, predictable and defensive driver who gets me from A to B comfortably and on time is all that matters. If he can brake smoothly when I'm standing without spilling my coffee, then (track defects aside) that is a bonus!

 

[BingMan]

I’d like to think the general public appreciate a “soft stop”, but in reality I think they don’t really pay much attention as long as they’re not delayed.

I notice different styles of driving, and sometimes make a conscious effort to see if driving styles differ from mine, and use it as a basis for potentially changing what I do.

Tis is very apposite to bus journeys where some drivers style of braking make it imperative to remain seated until the bus is stopped and settled, there by increasing the "dwell time" considerably

 

[Stigy]

Tis is very apposite to bus journeys where some drivers style of braking make it imperative to remain seated until the bus is stopped and settled, there by increasing the "dwell time" considerably

I guess buses are more abrupt vehicles generally, as with all road vehicles (gearing and more sensitive braking etc).

 

[niggill617@gma]

What a ridiculous comment from your fellow passenger!

Many ATC facilities will instruct pilots to “line up and wait”, meaning to enter the runway, face the direction of takeoff (normally upwind) and stop the aircraft.

Many pilots will also need time to calculate or confirm departure performance (we have a lot to bear in mind! Weight and balance, takeoff velocities, power settings, SID/departure clearance, autopilot procedure/configuration, post departure communications and the potential for an aborted takeoff or an engine failure after takeoff!) - I would go as far to say a good pilot will stop and evaluate all data and information before sending several thousand tons of metal filled with hundreds of people down a concrete strip with the purpose of generating enough lift to move the aircraft into flight, as opposed to mindlessly sending a plane into the air without hesitation.

I suppose on the railway similar principles apply - a good driver will wait for a few seconds, recall the PSR, ensure there are no TSR/ESR’s in place, double check the signal, check the next scheduled stop and ensure full understanding before applying power to commit to a fully safe departure

To me, a good driver is one who has such a thorough level of route and traction knowledge that they’re not only able to get the train there safely, but know how to apply power and braking to maximise passenger comfort throughout.

The way to drive will surely be within the same parameters as ERTMS and auto train control.

 

[skyhigh]

That's the main driving technique I notice - if the brakes are still fully on as the train stops you end up lurching just as you're picking up luggage, trying to press door buttons, etc. A soft stop is definitely appreciated!

Almost impossible on certain stock though, unfortunately.

 

[gazzak]

You don't need to be a driver to notice different driving styles, especially on a London Underground line where I have worked and lived for many years.

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

I certainly do. Doubt most people pay that much attention.

Motor or transmission hunting really grates on me. I'm never sure if that is the driver or a fault with the train.

 

[Sorcerer]

In my experiences travelling on Avanti, and Virgin before them, I noticed some trains left the stations quicker than others, and even from an outside view it definitely looked like some drove out of the platforms at Liverpool Lime Street a bit faster than others. I've also seen some drivers brake harder than others when it comes to stopping at stations. This leads me to wonder whether or not you can tell how long a driver has been on the job based on how they drive, because if they've been driving the same train on the same routes for so many years, they become so accustomed to it that they can adapt and drive with more confidence. In fact I remember on a TV programme in which one driver said that some days he likes to go full-brake full-speed but on other days will be a bit more relaxed. On time running probably plays a big part in it as well.

But in saying that I also wonder if a particular unit of any train behaves differently than others. On my most recent journey to London it felt like upon departure the train took a bit of time to properly power up and get moving, and the carriage had weird vibrations for a bit when it began to move, bearing in mind that this was one of the original batch trains built at Washwood Heath which is considerably older than the set when returning home which was 390156, one of the last units of the second batch built in Italy in the 2010s and so naturally will have ten years less wear and tear on their moving parts.

On the subject of pilots though, I've noticed more often than not that many will line up and wait on the runway before take-off, and the only time I don't recall that happening is on an Emirates flight out of Manchester where the pilot did not stop and immediately began to apply thrust when turning onto the runway. Pilots have to deal with a lot more variable conditions though when it comes to take-off and landing, and I can't help but always admire it when they land a plane in harsh windy conditions. Of course that said you'll still never catch me clapping for them when the plane lands...

 

[skyhigh]

This leads me to wonder whether or not you can tell how long a driver has been on the job based on how they drive, because if they've been driving the same train on the same routes for so many years, they become so accustomed to it that they can adapt and drive with more confidence.

Not really in my experience. Some old hand drivers will happily bumble around at a steady pace, and some new starters charge around. The biggest factor tends to be how the person who taught you do drive actually drives themselves!

 

[stuu]

I can't say I have ever really noticed on mainline trains. I did used to commute on the Metropolitan line though, and there were huge variations in driving style. The crossing at Neasden station into the depot was the most glaring: some drivers would noticeably slow down, and others wouldn't, which was interesting with the bouncy seats in the A stock

 

[londonmidland]

On my local line, providing the rail head conditions are good, some drivers really like to accelerate at full power with the Meridians, as well as brake more harshly. At the other end of the scale, some are more gentle with the acceleration and braking.

Cross Country drivers generally seem to be the same with their Voyagers, with fast acceleration and heavy braking.

Northern like to ‘thrash’ their 158s about a lot too I’ve noticed, as opposed to gently going up through the notches upon acceleration.