Plain-clothes revenue protection bods - is this still happening?

[jon81uk]

About 10 years ago I had an annual travelcard for my London commute and it didn't open the barriers but I was half way through as they closed on me, so just barged through. Plain clothes revenue protection showed their badge and scanned my Oyster card to confirm I had a ticket.

 

[londonbridge]

Last time I was checked on the tube was well before Covid and I’ve been checked once on a bus since lockdowns ended that I can recall, that’s the only plain clothes RPI I’ve seen in years, regular checks on national rail but always by train crew in uniform.

 

[station_road]

I have never seen a plain clothes ticket inspector.

Tha's probably the point! As other posters have mentioned, plain clothes inspectors are generally carrying out targetted operations so you are less likely to be stopped by one even if they are around (except on London Buses, where they are much more common and wear plain clothes to stop people getting off the bus as they board)

 

[Sleepy]

Yes TOC's use them - often to monitor travel habits of "person of interest" believed to make regular ticketless travel eg. misuse oyster/ one stop ticket to operate barriers.

 

[CE142]

You could and I'm interested to see what happens next. I would hope that it involves the police.


I have been checked loads of times on the DLR but always by people in uniform

Well I know what most TOCs Uniform is like, but if somebody in a T-shirt and a pair of jeans asked me for a ticket I would be asking them who they are! Also how many Passengers know what a Staff ID Card looks like if that's what they show?

 

[Meerkat]

Well I know what most TOCs Uniform is like, but if somebody in a T-shirt and a pair of jeans asked me for a ticket I would be asking them who they are! Also how many Passengers know what a Staff ID Card looks like if that's what they show?

Why would someone bother to fake a staff ID to look at your ticket?
Hoping they could grab your ticket, or your phone, or your wallet, is a possibility but seems a high risk effort for unknown gain.

 

[T-Karmel]

Why would someone bother to fake a staff ID to look at your ticket?
Hoping they could grab your ticket, or your phone, or your wallet, is a possibility but seems a high risk effort for unknown gain.

Considering railway IDs tend to have super simple design, it wouldn't take much work to print such at home.

And certainly no one would do it just to look at people's tickets. But to give out few fake fines or scan some bank cards? Why not.

I was enquired by a passenger once about some men in plain clothes checking tickets at the time at which I knew we weren't conducting such checks in my then company.

 

[Scott1]

Well I know what most TOCs Uniform is like, but if somebody in a T-shirt and a pair of jeans asked me for a ticket I would be asking them who they are! Also how many Passengers know what a Staff ID Card looks like if that's what they show?

At my TOC they have a medalian type badge and ID, sort of like a police warrent card. It the first thing plain clothed RPOs show.

 

[Aaron1]

I was on a train once travelling in London and a rather bloated Mick Hucknall was actually just a few seats away from me, a very young plain clothes inspector came and specifically only checked his ticket and nobody else's, I don't suppose the young inspector would even know who he was, wonder what would have happened if mick was found not to have a valid ticket!

 

[Bensonby]

I have a high value (free travel) Oyster card and I’ve been checked by plain clothes inspectors numerous times: they actively look out for people using them to spot abuse. It’s a welcome thing, and the check lasts less than 5 seconds when they’ve stopped me.

 

[ExRes]

I was on a train once travelling in London and a rather bloated Mick Hucknall was actually just a few seats away from me, a very young plain clothes inspector came and specifically only checked his ticket and nobody else's, I don't suppose the young inspector would even know who he was, wonder what would have happened if mick was found not to have a valid ticket!

Hopefully he'd be treated just like anyone else

 

[Edsmith]

To this day, I have never been checked on the tube. I have been checked on London Overground (although that is a grand total of one time since 2020). On the gatelines however, my pass gets checked every time at Liverpool Street Overground - although they're not in plain clothes. I have never seen a plain clothes ticket inspector.

My dad tells me he has not been checked in 20 years of commuting across London but almost always travelled in peak times. I was always aware they did it as one of the TV docs showed plain clothes on Northern line so I have half been expecting a check at some point, especially as I usually travel off peak.

Me neither on the tube and I use it regularly and only very occasionally on LO/DLR. I don't really see the point of being in plain clothes, it might arouse suspicion even though they have ID and surely they should be as high profile and visible as possible to act as a deterant?

 

[LowLevel]

Me neither on the tube and I use it regularly and only very occasionally on LO/DLR. I don't really see the point of being in plain clothes, it might arouse suspicion even though they have ID and surely they should be as high profile and visible as possible to act as a deterant?

Plain clothes operations are usually on the offensive with a specific goal of taking people down whom they don't wish to be alerted to their presence in advance.

Uniformed is generally passive and opportunist.

 

[Edsmith]

I was on a train once travelling in London and a rather bloated Mick Hucknall was actually just a few seats away from me, a very young plain clothes inspector came and specifically only checked his ticket and nobody else's, I don't suppose the young inspector would even know who he was, wonder what would have happened if mick was found not to have a valid ticket!

Maybe he just wanted an excuse to speak to Mick Hucknall? Aren't they supposed to check everyone so nobody can claim victimisation?

 

[T-Karmel]

Maybe he just wanted an excuse to speak to Mick Hucknall? Aren't they supposed to check everyone so nobody can claim victimisation?

Not really if working in plain clothes. As mentioned before, this type of work has a specific goal based on intelligence gathered. They might be after a specific person that they know exactly who to approach, or they only have some description and hence are approaching also some people with tickets before they catch the one they're after.
Also, some people have ticket on some days and they don't on other days. Could be inspector's unlucky day.

 

[matt_world2004]

I was on a train once travelling in London and a rather bloated Mick Hucknall was actually just a few seats away from me, a very young plain clothes inspector came and specifically only checked his ticket and nobody else's, I don't suppose the young inspector would even know who he was, wonder what would have happened if mick was found not to have a valid ticket!

Did he go simply red when asked for his ticket?

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Thanks a lot. What are freedom passes/nominee/staff passes?

A Freedom Pass is what I have: an Oyster Card given to me because I'm over 65 and which enables me to travel free of charge on TfL services (train, bus, tram etc) even if they go way outside the Greater London area to places like Epping or Reading, plus on other trains within the London area.

The only time I've ever been checked on TfL services was by a plain clothes inspector at Wembley Park Station one Sunday afternoon. After I'd passed through the barrier, he asked to see my pass because he didn't believe I was old enough to have one! (This was many, many years ago!)

Obviously, if a valid holder of such a pass lends it to someone else, it would deprive the railway of revenue.

 

[Edsmith]

Not really if working in plain clothes. As mentioned before, this type of work has a specific goal based on intelligence gathered. They might be after a specific person that they know exactly who to approach, or they only have some description and hence are approaching also some people with tickets before they catch the one they're after.
Also, some people have ticket on some days and they don't on other days. Could be inspector's unlucky day.

I overheard an argument on the DLR once and a uniformed inspector assured somebody that they always check all tickets and don't just target particular people. Then again maybe they thought Mick Hucknall was a regular fare evader?

 

[Skiddaw]

Did he go simply red when asked for his ticket?

 

[greyman42]

Did he go simply red when asked for his ticket?

He could simply have explained that he was going for some Pleasure at the fairground.

 

[bearhugger]

Did he go simply red when asked for his ticket?

Money's too tight to mention could have been his excuse for an invalid / no ticket.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Used to love fancy dress days - was a certainty you were straight to the pub after work.. but someone at that company messed it up one December by wearing a beard and something red. His argument was "well, you wanted us to blend in with the passengers?!". Well, he did... but it didn't look good getting a fine off Mr Claus.

Did he add an e-piece of coal to your Oyster/local contactless card for bad behaviour?

 

[Meerkat]

And certainly no one would do it just to look at people's tickets. But to give out few fake fines or scan some bank cards? Why not.

High risk. You would be operating in a place with CCTV with stuff on you that was undeniably for fraud/other offences.
And as you are pretending to be a plain clothes RPI you would know there is a risk you would pretend to be one right in front of a real one!

 

[AlterEgo]

Well I know what most TOCs Uniform is like, but if somebody in a T-shirt and a pair of jeans asked me for a ticket I would be asking them who they are! Also how many Passengers know what a Staff ID Card looks like if that's what they show?

Why don’t you try it next time and report back how you get on with the magistrates?

 

[island]

Thanks a lot. What are freedom passes/nominee/staff passes?

Freedom pass = pass given to over-65s and disabled people by local councils. Good for free local bus travel throughout England (I think). London council issued passes also have validity on trains/underground/trams.

Staff passes are passes entitling members of transport staff to travel free or at a significant discount to normal fares. Specific validity varies widely and can include just the issuing company or a range of others.

Nominee passes are issued to (for example) the domestic partners of certain staff members granting similar free or low cost travel.

All of the above passes should bear a photograph of the correct holder (or be accompanied by a second card with such a photograph) and are collectively referred to as “high value passes”.

NB I am not aiming for this to be absolutely fully technically correct just to provide basic information for Facing Back.

 

[winks]

Does anyone remember the black plain clothed RPI that used to work for SWT?

He must have retired by now, but I remember he stopped me swapping platforms ! (Even after I passed through a ticket barrier) at Basingstoke.

Also saw him a few times in London , you can’t forget him. I’m sure he had a black leather type wallet with a gold badge !

 

[Runningaround]

Why would someone bother to fake a staff ID to look at your ticket?
Hoping they could grab your ticket, or your phone, or your wallet, is a possibility but seems a high risk effort for unknown gain.

As 99% won't have a clue what the badge is supposed to look like and nobody will ever call a number to check them out, how many rail staff would do so on seeing an I.D that looked familiar?
You can check a bankcard on a scanner - bought for a few quid- to see if it's been used to travel and just have it set to take £100 out of each one you check in and be gone in quarter of an hour you'd get a few by then and off before anyone's checked their bank account and your away. Your in plain clothes, who's going to point you out? While thier distracted your ''colleague'' can have a look around their bags for a wallet, purse or mobile phone.

 

[Via Bank]

Why would someone bother to fake a staff ID to look at your ticket?
Hoping they could grab your ticket, or your phone, or your wallet, is a possibility but seems a high risk effort for unknown gain.

It's actually not unknown in parts of central Europe for scammers to lurk around metro stations, etc. masquerading as plainclothes ticket inspectors, usually targeting tourists, and using high-pressure threatening techniques to extract an inflated "penalty fare" (multiples of the actual penalty) in cash on the spot. So it's not an unreasonable question, even if it seems unlikely in the UK.

Various RPIs' attitude in the UK can't help. I recall watching a plainclothes inspector giving chase and then shouting at a young (presumably Chinese) couple leaving King's Cross tube, demanding to know why they hadn't stopped when he'd showed his badge. Particularly for people unfamiliar with the system, I'm not sure flashing a big medallion is clear enough by itself to (a) tell people what they have to do (b) give them confidence to get their ticket/wallet out knowing it's not a scam.

 

[Facing Back]

So if your using a standard oyster card/contactless card. The revenue aren't going to be focused on that because the gateline can check those. And people going through the gateline incorrectly draw attention to themselves.

What they are focused on is season tickets on oyster, freedom/60+ passes(The free travel scheme for disabled and older people) Staff and nominee passes(The free travel scheme for staff and their partners) and zip cards (Free/Reduced travel scheme for young people) People misusing these passes by using the pass designed for someone else can cost the company thousands.

They set the gatelines to flash a orange light when going through on these passes .that's how they know who to stop

Got it. Thanks

Thank you

Freedom pass = pass given to over-65s and disabled people by local councils. Good for free local bus travel throughout England (I think). London council issued passes also have validity on trains/underground/trams.

Staff passes are passes entitling members of transport staff to travel free or at a significant discount to normal fares. Specific validity varies widely and can include just the issuing company or a range of others.

Nominee passes are issued to (for example) the domestic partners of certain staff members granting similar free or low cost travel.

All of the above passes should bear a photograph of the correct holder (or be accompanied by a second card with such a photograph) and are collectively referred to as “high value passes”.

NB I am not aiming for this to be absolutely fully technically correct just to provide basic information for Facing Back.

you

 

[43066]

You can check a bankcard on a scanner - bought for a few quid- to see if it's been used to travel and just have it set to take £100 out of each one you check in and be gone in quarter of an hour you'd get a few by then and off before anyone's checked their bank account and your away. Your in plain clothes, who's going to point you out? While thier distracted your ''colleague'' can have a look around their bags for a wallet, purse or mobile phone.

This sounds fanciful in the extreme - any evidence it has ever actually happened? I’d suggest anyone doing this in full view of on train CCTV, staff and the occasional BTP officer would be caught almost immediately. It’s also very straightforward to get funds lost to contactless fraud refunded by your card provider, so it isn’t the equivalent of someone nicking £100 cash out of your wallet.

I’d also ask, where does this reasoning end? Would you refuse to show a uniformed RPI your ticket on the basis they might be a scammer wearing a fake uniform? If they turned out to be real, as is much more likely, you’d be committing a ticketing offence! At some point you just have to go with the most probable situation.

Various RPIs' attitude in the UK can't help. I recall watching a plainclothes inspector giving chase and then shouting at a young (presumably Chinese) couple leaving King's Cross tube, demanding to know why they hadn't stopped when he'd showed his badge. Particularly for people unfamiliar with the system, I'm not sure flashing a big medallion is clear enough by itself to (a) tell people what they have to do (b) give them confidence to get their ticket/wallet out knowing it's not a scam.

How is this a failure of the RPIs attitude? He’s clearly shown ID and made it clear the ticket needs to be checked - it isn’t supposed to be optional! AIUI people also regularly feign an inability to speak English as a tactic to get out of paying.

Some people on here have a rather “innocent” view of how dishonest an element of the population can be!