SWR taking the Mickey on train lengths

[fandroid]

Tonight I arrived at Waterloo after travelling since 7am this morning looking forward to getting home to Basingstoke. I arrived at the magical time when there's three fastish services due to leave within a 15 minute period. The rest of the hour's lack of trains is cause of moaning by me but that's not the point here.

First up was the 20.05 to Bournemouth. I walked the whole length to find it limited to five coaches and rammed. I nipped down the subway to seek out the 20.09 to Portsmouth. Just four coaches and equally full! Eventually I went back to the 20.20 to Axminster to find that was a reasonable length, but that also got to full and standing by the time it had left Clapham Junction. SWR has plenty of rolling stock. What excuse has it got for short-forming on trains that it knows will fill well into the evening, especially on a Thursday which has been the "new Friday" for several years now? It's loyal passengers don't deserve to be subjected to crammed trains while units stand idle in the sidings.

 

[kristiang85]

Yeah I was thinking the same - I got the 2105 which used to be a reliable 10 coaches, and now it seems to only be 5. It was awful. And it's been this way for a few weeks.

Given the mornings still seem to be the normal lengths, I'm not sure where the long trains in the evenings are going. It's been bad enough since they stopped doing the basingstoke services every 20 minutes in the evenings in the post COVID years.

 

[bazzarati]

I sympathise and though in a different area this is also my experience of using trains. Despite people saying passenger usage is supposedly down significantly, every train I have boarded has been full to the extent that their are people standing throughout.

 

[fgwrich]

Is the Northam Depot power supply issue still causing issues for SWR / Siemens? I have noticed more than a few services becoming shorter in recent weeks though, quite a few of them being the West of England line services. I took the 23:40 last week (a 3 Car) to find it full departing Waterloo, and standing from Clapham.

 

[LLivery]

I sympathise and though in a different area this is also my experience of using trains. Despite people saying passenger usage is supposedly down significantly, every train I have boarded has been full to the extent that their are people standing throughout.

I feel like it's absolute nonsense now. The overcrowding is getting so bad it's now putting me off from going into the office. The Southern Region looks back to normal to me, at least Tuesday-Thursday.

 

[JonathanH]

I feel like it's absolute nonsense now. The overcrowding is getting so bad it's now putting me off from going into the office. The Southern Region looks back to normal to me, at least Tuesday-Thursday.

Until it is back to normal on Monday and Friday, the revenue won't be there to support better services on Tuesday to Thursday.

Services at 2000 are often the first ones that run with shorter formations, because the train fleet is concentrated on the peak flows. Second guessing passenger flows is a bit of a challenge.

Hasn't the 2009 to Portsmouth via Basingstoke always been a 4 car 450?

 

[TEW]

Those are the booked formations for the 2005 and 2009. There is less stock on mainline services now as more 450s are used on the Windsor side to replace the 458s and 707s that have gone.

 

[ScotGG]

Govt cuts. Impacting all operators

 

[LLivery]

Until it is back to normal on Monday and Friday, the revenue won't be there to support better services on Tuesday to Thursday.

Services at 2000 are often the first ones that run with shorter formations, because the train fleet is concentrated on the peak flows. Second guessing passenger flows is a bit of a challenge.

Hasn't the 2009 to Portsmouth via Basingstoke always been a 4 car 450?

Well, that's never, then. We can't continue having severely overcrowded services (in my neck of the woods at least) - on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, because Fridays are quiet. Either the government wants people back in the office or not. But they can't have it both ways.

 

[deepeetw]

I sympathise and though in a different area this is also my experience of using trains. Despite people saying passenger usage is supposedly down significantly, every train I have boarded has been full to the extent that their are people standing throughout.

Those are the booked formations for the 2005 and 2009. There is less stock on mainline services now as more 450s are used on the Windsor side to replace the 458s and 707s that have gone.

The Windsor side is a joke some morning/evening peaks now - I’ve been unable to board some services in recent weeks due to there being no physical space on the train. The reduction in services and a move back to 8 carriage trains is a real step back.

 

[TEW]

The Windsor side is a joke some morning/evening peaks now - I’ve been unable to board some services in recent weeks due to there being no physical space on the train. The reduction in services and a move back to 8 carriage trains is a real step back.

It's the same on the main suburban, only the Shepperton trains are 10-car now, and cuts to peak frequency in many lines.

And the mainline is no better, less frequent in the peak, and less full length trains, although formation lengths do generally hold up better on the mainline in the peak.

 

[yorksrob]

Government cuts. Be sure to remember them at the ballot box.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Is the route still subject to capacity issues while the landslip at Hook is still being repaired?

 

[Towers]

Services at 2000 are often the first ones that run with shorter formations, because the train fleet is concentrated on the peak flows. Second guessing passenger flows is a bit of a challenge.

Couldn't let that one go I'm afraid - this is called "planning" and is a staple part of running a railway!

 

[JonathanH]

Couldn't let that one go I'm afraid - this is called "planning" and is a staple part of running a railway!

Yes, but if it means reducing peak formations to provide longer trains around 2000 because passengers are travelling later, that isn't easy to guess.

 

[Stigy]

Tonight I arrived at Waterloo after travelling since 7am this morning looking forward to getting home to Basingstoke. I arrived at the magical time when there's three fastish services due to leave within a 15 minute period. The rest of the hour's lack of trains is cause of moaning by me but that's not the point here.

First up was the 20.05 to Bournemouth. I walked the whole length to find it limited to five coaches and rammed. I nipped down the subway to seek out the 20.09 to Portsmouth. Just four coaches and equally full! Eventually I went back to the 20.20 to Axminster to find that was a reasonable length, but that also got to full and standing by the time it had left Clapham Junction. SWR has plenty of rolling stock. What excuse has it got for short-forming on trains that it knows will fill well into the evening, especially on a Thursday which has been the "new Friday" for several years now? It's loyal passengers don't deserve to be subjected to crammed trains while units stand idle in the sidings.

Maybe it’s because the government keep saying passenger numbers are down, so what’s the point in running 10 or 12 coach trains beyond peak times?

 

[swr444]

Is the route still subject to capacity issues while the landslip at Hook is still being repaired?

They finished repairing it last week

 

[JonathanH]

Maybe it’s because the government keep saying passenger numbers are down, so what’s the point in running 10 or 12 coach trains beyond peak times?

Isn't it because they are running 10 and 12 coach trains at peak times?

The primary issue is the gap in fast services to Basingstoke from 1920 to 2005, where once there was a 1939 and 1950.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Maybe it’s because the government keep saying passenger numbers are down, so what’s the point in running 10 or 12 coach trains beyond peak times?

I hope this is said tongue-in-cheek, as what the government say and what we experience as SWR commuters is very different. The government will say anything to cut costs.

Isn't it because they are running 10 and 12 coach trains at peak times?

That’s exactly what he said. Beyond means after.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Yes, but if it means reducing peak formations to provide longer trains around 2000 because passengers are travelling later, that isn't easy to guess.

For people travelling a couple of times a week they are going to travel later, both in the morning and the evening, to avoid eye-watering peak fares. It’s always been the way, there’s just more hybrid working now. It is entirely predictable.

The government want dynamic pricing so this will be solved; the peak fares will just be extended to 10pm.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Might be something to do with someone with a spreadsheet deciding that shorter trains means they save a bit with the cost of putting the trains through exams , over a six month period or whatever.

 

[43066]

Well, that's never, then. We can't continue having severely overcrowded services (in my neck of the woods at least) - on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, because Fridays are quiet. Either the government wants people back in the office or not. But they can't have it both ways.

It’s interesting how trains across the board are getting steadily busier, and there are currently several active threads about people being left behind and significant overcrowding.

That certainly tallies with what I’m seeing, both at work and on my local network. The traditional “rush hour” in particular now seems to be ticking up on the SE metro network, and SWR is no doubt experiencing similar.

 

[Mag_seven]

Might be something to do with someone with a spreadsheet deciding that shorter trains means they save a bit with the cost of putting the trains through exams , over a six month period or whatever.

Probably somebody in an ivory tower who never has to travel on those services!

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

20:30 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour fast last night - a measly five carriages and absolutely rammed! Even in the front most carriage, people squashed up both in the vestibule and the seating area.

And it's the same story over and over again practically every Thursday / Friday / Saturday...

 

[StKeverne1497]

Maybe it’s because the government keep saying passenger numbers are down, so what’s the point in running 10 or 12 coach trains beyond peak times?

I'm sure I heard someone recently state that the reason the government is able to say passenger numbers are only back to 80% of pre-Covid levels is because they have included strike days and bank holidays in their calculations and possibly something about ignoring those passengers on rail-replacement busses. Are there any properly-calculated figures somewhere?

 

[nw1]

Well, that's never, then. We can't continue having severely overcrowded services (in my neck of the woods at least) - on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, because Fridays are quiet. Either the government wants people back in the office or not. But they can't have it both ways.

I think it's well known that this particular government are very "tight" with funding anything, sadly. Their whole philosophy appears to be to run things using the absolute minimum funding possible, and if that means inadequate formations on services at certain times a day, that's the way it is, sadly.

I agree it needs to change. Maybe voting for another party in the local elections, and general election when it comes - and telling them as such - will send a message.

 

[LUYMun]

I recall travelling on a Woking - Waterloo train last December that was hauled by a 4 coach 450 instead of the usual 455s, and the train got full and standing by Surbiton. I suspect this is because of the shortage in Metro rolling stock that SWR couldn't be bothered to retain after some of their leases had expired (especially the 456s), and this could worsen when (and not "if", knowing SWR) the first lot of the 455s start going away in the near future.

 

[JonathanH]

I think it's well known that this particular government are very "tight" with funding anything, sadly.

It is also well known that the subsidy to the railway continues to be at unprecedented levels and the Treasury wants it to get back to more sustainable levels.

Maybe voting for another party in the local elections, and general election when it comes - and telling them as such - will send a message.

I agree with you but the Treasury will be the same, and there are many other places money needs to be allocated.

SWR couldn't be bothered to retain after some of their leases had expired (especially the 456s)

'Couldn't be bothered' = couldn't afford

Some of it comes back to 701s not being in service yet, when clearly there was an expectation they would be.

 

[nw1]

It is also well known that the subsidy to the railway continues to be at unprecedented levels and the Treasury wants it to get back to more sustainable levels.


I agree with you but the Treasury will be the same, and there are many other places money needs to be allocated.

Maybe but I it's interesting how BR, specifically the South Western Division out of Waterloo, in the days of Thatcher, managed to run longish trains beyond the peak back in the harsh recession of the early 1980s (I have CWNs for 1981 and 1982, for example, which show this). Around 8pm, 8- or 12-car seemed to be the standard on the Portsmouth Direct, for example, and the Bournemouth and Weymouth services were 12-car. Presumably there were significant financial constraints then, too.

There was off-peak shortening in the 80s of course, but that was during the quiet time of day between around 1100-1500, in the main, or very early morning or late evening. (And I do agree that shortening is entirely appropriate when many of the trains are basically just carting fresh air!)

 

[JonathanH]

Around 8pm, 8- or 12-car seemed to be the standard on the Portsmouth Direct, for example, and the Bournemouth and Weymouth services were 12-car. Presumably there were significant financial constraints then, too.

There were presumably fewer trains in each hour back then. As I note above, I am not sure this issue is about short trains as such as the services being discussed where short in the pre-Covid days, but more about the long gap from 1920 to 2005 not being compensated by changes to formations of the following services.