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Will we ever see any more new stretches of motorway in the UK?

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E27007

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To answer the OP question, my answer would be no.

Having said that there are some serious gaps in the network, in the north Manchester - Sheffield has to be one of the most significant. The M67 gets you maybe 5 miles east of the M60 and then fizzles out into a poor single carriageway road. A good quality all weather road is needed, to bypass towns and villages. Connectivity to Manchester from Sheffield and the northern part of the East Midlands isn't any better by rail, the Hope Valley route seems really slow, particularly at the Manchester end. I know there have been various proposals to reuse the Woodhead tunnel for a road link, not sure how practical these are. I had wondered if the eastbound route could go up and over, and westbound use the tunnel, with two way through the tunnel in the event that the up and over is closed due to snow. This would be unlikely to be motorway standard however.

Like a lot of UK infrastructure the motorway network looks half finished, but I cant see there being either the money or the political will to address even the most glaring missing bits. And looking ahead high speed rail looks to be following the same path.
The mention of the abandoned part-constructed M67 Manchester - Sheffield motorway triggers old memories of the 1970s, ideas of the "nuisance" of the Woodhead Line fated to be closed to make way for the "essential" M67 through the Longdendale Valley!
 
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stuu

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The two most glaring gaps in the network for me are Manchester-Sheffield and Bristol-Southampton (and on to Brighton). Clearly there is a climate crisis to worry about, but also many vehicles make those journeys now, but they either travel longer routes or sit in towns and villages wasting fuel and polluting the local environment.

We will always need decent road infrastructure - I'm fairly confident nowhere west of Warsaw has such glaring gaps in the road network as we do
 

zwk500

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…really?
Free flowing traffic is better for the climate than congestion (especially in urban areas) as it leads to lower concentrations for the same amount of traffic.
However environmental concerns around the impact of construction are largely what has led to the slowdown in motorway construction (notably M3 and M40).
 

PTR 444

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We will always need decent road infrastructure - I'm fairly confident nowhere west of Warsaw has such glaring gaps in the road network as we do
If you thought the UK was the only country with unfinished motorways, just wait until you see Germany. Two of its main cross-country autobahns, the A1 and A4 still have 25km and 100km gaps in Rhineland Palatinate and Hesse respectively. Much bigger than any missing links within the British Isles!
 

lachlan

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Free flowing traffic is better for the climate than congestion (especially in urban areas) as it leads to lower concentrations for the same amount of traffic.
However environmental concerns around the impact of construction are largely what has led to the slowdown in motorway construction (notably M3 and M40).
Building roads, speeding up car journey times will take passengers away from rail and induce demand.
 

Doctor Fegg

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Free flowing traffic is better for the climate than congestion (especially in urban areas) as it leads to lower concentrations for the same amount of traffic.
Except induced demand is a thing. I’d agree if “the same amount of traffic” is what resulted, but it never is.

(Construction impact is a massive factor, though, you’re right. Some horrifying stats being bandied around yesterday in relation to a new relief road being built around Didcot.)
 

A0

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The mention of the abandoned part-constructed M67 Manchester - Sheffield motorway triggers old memories of the 1970s, ideas of the "nuisance" of the Woodhead Line fated to be closed to make way for the "essential" M67 through the Longdendale Valley!

The decisions about a trans-pennine motorway and the fate of the Woodhead are totally unrelated though.

As has been pointed out, many times, Beeching proposed retaining Woodhead (and Matlock - Buxton) but closing the Hope Valley line. BR did the opposite.

The M67 should have been built - crossing the south Pennines from Manchester towards Sheffield or Chesterfield is a terrible journey be it be rail or road.

Building roads, speeding up car journey times will take passengers away from rail and induce demand.

No evidence to support that - increased congestion hasn't lead to an increase in rail use - it's just lead to increased congestion.

We will always need decent road infrastructure - I'm fairly confident nowhere west of Warsaw has such glaring gaps in the road network as we do

This ^^^^^

Even "pro rail" countries such as France have spent significant sums on their motorway and trunk road network - they recognise that having congested roads and slow journeys isn't beneficial.
 

cactustwirly

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The two most glaring gaps in the network for me are Manchester-Sheffield and Bristol-Southampton (and on to Brighton). Clearly there is a climate crisis to worry about, but also many vehicles make those journeys now, but they either travel longer routes or sit in towns and villages wasting fuel and polluting the local environment.

We will always need decent road infrastructure - I'm fairly confident nowhere west of Warsaw has such glaring gaps in the road network as we do

Bristol to Southampton, you'd travel on the A34 and M4 surely?
 

PTR 444

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Bristol to Southampton, you'd travel on the A34 and M4 surely?
It’s slightly quicker time wise, but about a third longer distance wise compared to going via the A36. Which way you travel mostly depends on what your circumstances are.
 

lachlan

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The decisions about a trans-pennine motorway and the fate of the Woodhead are totally unrelated though.

As has been pointed out, many times, Beeching proposed retaining Woodhead (and Matlock - Buxton) but closing the Hope Valley line. BR did the opposite.

The M67 should have been built - crossing the south Pennines from Manchester towards Sheffield or Chesterfield is a terrible journey be it be rail or road.



No evidence to support that - increased congestion hasn't lead to an increase in rail use - it's just lead to increased congestion.



This ^^^^^

Even "pro rail" countries such as France have spent significant sums on their motorway and trunk road network - they recognise that having congested roads and slow journeys isn't beneficial.
It’s common sense - journey time is one factor in choosing a transport mode along with convenience, cost, etc.
 

stuu

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If you thought the UK was the only country with unfinished motorways, just wait until you see Germany. Two of its main cross-country autobahns, the A1 and A4 still have 25km and 100km gaps in Rhineland Palatinate and Hesse respectively. Much bigger than any missing links within the British Isles!
That's very different though, as they are missing sections of the planned network, they are not gaps between two massive conurbations

Bristol to Southampton, you'd travel on the A34 and M4 surely?
Yes, of course, but it's not exactly a straight line. The same as Manchester to Sheffield, you can go via the M62 and M1
 

156421

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If you do that, you might as well go down the route of Ireland and abolish the NSL sign in favour of an explicitly signed speed limit for every road.
I've always wondered how long until Scotland "does an Ireland" and switches to kilometers as a petty middle finger to big bad Westminster.
 

156421

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One day, maybe, after years of plans, a flyover will actually be built over Queensway / Abbey Hill to Little Eaton island at Derby...in the interim decades, the gridlock / accidents will happily continue unabated
Passing Markeaton Roundabout a couple of weeks back I was astonished to see the A52 Ashbourne Road, right at the roundabout exits, still has a zebra crossing (not push button crossing).
 

ABB125

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One day, maybe, after years of plans, a flyover will actually be built over Queensway / Abbey Hill to Little Eaton island at Derby...in the interim decades, the gridlock / accidents will happily continue unabated
The project to do just that (grade-separate all three remaining roundabouts on the A38 through Derby) is currently going through the quagmire of eco-bananas mounting legal challenges against it.
Even "pro rail" countries such as France have spent significant sums on their motorway and trunk road network - they recognise that having congested roads and slow journeys isn't beneficial.
The best example of this is the Netherlands. Look at the density of their motorway network. Then, more importantly, look at the junctions. Pretty much every single motorway-motorway interchange is fully free-flow (albeit with a notable exception here: https://goo.gl/maps/mKz77TtaFH16AeGt8 very British!), and they've properly fixed dangerous and congested sections. Take a look at Eindhoven, for example: https://goo.gl/maps/fJ6sY8cokKZCdpfu8 proper parallel carriageways to separate "local" and long distance traffic, free-flow junctions at all the major interchanges, etc. If you have Google Earth (desktop version) installed, compare it to the historical satellite imagery from around 2003, the difference is enormous.
(In the UK, most of the motorway-motorway interchanges around Eindhoven would be roundabouts, and if you were lucky an additional lane might have been built along part of the bypass. Coventry has a higher population than Eindhoven (abut 50% more), now compare the Coventry Eastern Bypass... https://goo.gl/maps/nGu97MHdYW2u1Mqs6 (Yes, I will accept that the road geography is a bit different, and the M6 takes a lot of the traffic, but you get the idea!))
 

krus_aragon

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I don't imagine we'll see any more new motorways in the UK. At best it'll be upgrades of existing roads. Maybe we'll get a little more A1(M) here and there, maybe the A55 in north Wales will get spruced-up at some point in our lifetime but getting a brand new motorway through planning would be an absolute nightmare.
The A55 from Chester to Conwy could be a candidate, but west of Conwy you'll run into problems...
Part of the problem is that a Motorway requires an alternative route for banned traffic, and also that it causes major disruption for local residents without offering them much in return.
There aren't good alternative routes to the A55 between Conwy and Bangor. There is a mountain pass between Conwy and Dwygyfylchi/Penmaenmawr, a single carriageway now used as a cycle route between Pen and Llanfairfechan (Telford's old road, between the modern carriageways, with a footbridge either end for access). There's a new cycle route between Llanfairfechan and Bangor, but no through route for vehicles; only local access for farms. The diversion route is inland through Bethesda and Betws y Coed, which is of no use to (say) learner drivers in Penmaenmawr or Llanfairfechan.
I think the latest fad is Expressway rather than motorway, basically a dual carriageway with grade separated junctions, and numbered junctions.
The A55 was marketed as an Expressway back in the 70s/80s when the major dualling to Bangor was being done. (The name isn't as prevalent these days, but local papers like the Daily Post still use it.) Junction numbers didn't arrive until after the extention to Holyhead two decades ago, though, and there's still those roundabouts at Llanfairfechan and Penmaenmawr.
That is a big issue, although moving forward I suppose you could have a two tiered system of motorways and expressways. Expressways could be controlled access similar to motorways with the main exception of allowing certain classes of large vehicles banned from motorways, such as tractors. That way you’d only need to build a cycle path rather than a full-blown road for prohibited traffic on expressways, and could be a quick win for improving the nation’s cycle network.
A similar approach is taken to the "special road" part of the A55 between Llanddulas and Conwy, where learner drivers are banned, but HGV learners are *permitted*. This is an area where the old A55 (now A547) is available alongside for car learners and other traffic. But without that road for learner drivers, you'd have a bit of a problem until you passed your test.
 

PTR 444

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The A55 from Chester to Conwy could be a candidate, but west of Conwy you'll run into problems...

There aren't good alternative routes to the A55 between Conwy and Bangor. There is a mountain pass between Conwy and Dwygyfylchi/Penmaenmawr, a single carriageway now used as a cycle route between Pen and Llanfairfechan (Telford's old road, between the modern carriageways, with a footbridge either end for access). There's a new cycle route between Llanfairfechan and Bangor, but no through route for vehicles; only local access for farms. The diversion route is inland through Bethesda and Betws y Coed, which is of no use to (say) learner drivers in Penmaenmawr or Llanfairfechan.

The A55 was marketed as an Expressway back in the 70s/80s when the major dualling to Bangor was being done. (The name isn't as prevalent these days, but local papers like the Daily Post still use it.) Junction numbers didn't arrive until after the extention to Holyhead two decades ago, though, and there's still those roundabouts at Llanfairfechan and Penmaenmawr.

A similar approach is taken to the "special road" part of the A55 between Llanddulas and Conwy, where learner drivers are banned, but HGV learners are *permitted*. This is an area where the old A55 (now A547) is available alongside for car learners and other traffic. But without that road for learner drivers, you'd have a bit of a problem until you passed your test.
I think it would make sense to allow learner drivers on expressways if they become an official class of road. This would give them the opportunity to practice driving through motorway style conditions without the daunting aspect of doing it on an actual motorway (although I respect that some learners may feel confident on a motorway, hence the recent suggestions to allow learners on those).

On a slight tangent, with the onset of autonomous vehicles likely to happen this century, could we see motorways redefined as roads where manual driving is prohibited? This could allow a new generation of motorways to be built that only have one lane in each direction, since the closer spacing of vehicles that autonomous driving allows would eliminate the need for multiple lanes and overtaking.
 
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Bald Rick

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For me, the stretch between Peterborough and Doncaster is the worst bit - undulating, curvy etc, requiring your attention all the time which makes it a tiring drive.

For me it’s the best bit, enjoyable to drive, and you need to have your wits about you.

No evidence to support that - increased congestion hasn't lead to an increase in rail use

Actually there is quite a bit of evidence in research done by the rail industry that suggests increased congestion has led to increased rail use, especially for longer distance journeys.


This would give them the opportunity to practice driving through motorway style conditions without the daunting aspect of doing it on an actual motorway (although I respect that some learners may feel confident on a motorway, hence the recent suggestions to allow learners on those).

I frequently drove on the A3 Esher bypass as a learner, dual three lane with a hard shoulder…
 

Anonymous10

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You beat me to it! It's worth noting that as explained in the video it's only called a motorway because it leads inescapably to other motorways so non-motorway traffic must be banned.

The Welsh Government is still in the process of upgrading the A465 Heads of the Valleys road to not-quite-motorway standard but the signs are remaining green rather than becoming blue.
Are you referring to the honestly not a motorway governor project they're doing
 

bramling

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Could we one day see the remaining sections of the A1 converted to the A1M?

I can’t really see Peterborough to Doncaster being done, in the grand scheme of things it’s not *that* busy, and the M1 essentially duplicates it for end-to-end journeys.

Doncaster to Ferrybridge is much more of an issue due to its heavy use by HGVs.

I can’t see Baldock to Huntingdon being done either, simply due to the complexity of doing it. The main priority south of Peterborough should be eliminating the remaining roundabouts, and a proper widening between Welwyn and Stevenage.
 

Bald Rick

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I can’t see Baldock to Huntingdon being done either, simply due to the complexity of doing it.

And for strategic traffic it is also ’paralleled’ by the A14/M11 for anything heading south/ east or for the Dartford crossing, and the A421 / M1 for anything heading south west to Heathrow or beyond. I’m on the A1 north from Hatfield to Huntingdon regularly, and the level of HGV traffic is noticeably lower than most strategic roads.
 

E27007

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The decisions about a trans-pennine motorway and the fate of the Woodhead are totally unrelated though.

The M67 should have been built - crossing the south Pennines from Manchester towards Sheffield or Chesterfield is a terrible journey be it be rail or road.
The M67 and the eventual fate of Woodhead are intertwined in that both were lost.
The M67 was abandoned due to adverse Benefit / Cost, the Victorian Surveyors had chosen the best (possibly sole) route over the terrain for Woodhead railway to the annoyance of the M67 consultants,their alternative routes for the M67 involved some costly civil engineering solutions.
From publications the consultants had the firm idea in their scheme of thinking of Woodhead to be closed (possibly sacrificed) more than a decade before the actuality ( I wonder as to who gave them the tip) , and had earmarked the Tunnel and trackbed as a line of route for the M67
 
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87 027

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I think it would make sense to allow learner drivers on expressways if they become an official class of road.
I didn't realise until a family member recently started driving lessons, but since 2018 learner drivers have been allowed to use motorways (in an approved driving instructor's car equipped with dual controls)

 

Dai Corner

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Are you referring to the honestly not a motorway governor project they're doing

The objectives are to:

  • improve traffic flow and make it safer to overtake
  • make the road safer, especially around junctions and areas with poor visibility
  • improve access to key services, jobs and markets supporting inward investment to areas like the Ebbw Vale Enterprise Zone.
There's some quite spectacular civil engineering, especially further east. A bit of a showpiece for the contractors and their engineers. Much more interesting from that point of view than the cancelled M4 relief road near Newport would have been.
 

A0

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Actually there is quite a bit of evidence in research done by the rail industry that suggests increased congestion has led to increased rail use, especially for longer distance journeys.

For city centre journeys I might buy it - there are no shortage of anti-car local authorities - the Mayor of London is one, but not the only example. But if you were making a journey from St Albans to Bristol or Northampton to Crewe there's little practical gain to using the train.

For me, the stretch between Peterborough and Doncaster is the worst bit - undulating, curvy etc, requiring your attention all the time which makes it a tiring drive. I much prefer the section south of Peterborough which is very relaxing.

If it can't be 'motorwayed', at least it should be straightened and widened to three lanes (but I wouldn't like to drive down it while they're doing the roadworks!)

For me it’s the best bit, enjoyable to drive, and you need to have your wits about you.

It may have its enjoyable bits, but it's also downright dangerous (and has been for 20 years) in a number of bits. There is precisely no excuse in 2023 to have 'flat' crossings on a major trunk route, yet the A1 has several still such as those at Great Ponton and Honeypot Lane south of Colsterworth. There are also absurdly short - and dangerous slip roads to join the A1 at places like Stamford.

I can’t really see Peterborough to Doncaster being done, in the grand scheme of things it’s not *that* busy, and the M1 essentially duplicates it for end-to-end journeys.

Doncaster to Ferrybridge is much more of an issue due to its heavy use by HGVs.

I can’t see Baldock to Huntingdon being done either, simply due to the complexity of doing it. The main priority south of Peterborough should be eliminating the remaining roundabouts, and a proper widening between Welwyn and Stevenage.

I disagree - I think both are eminently "do-able" - the problem is between Peterborough and Doncaster they don't serve anywhere particularly large. And whilst the M1 does seem to 'shadow' the A1, the reality is it does so about 40 miles to the west (if you look at the distance of the A14 from Huntingdon to Catthorpe) - yes that narrows as you head further north - but from Peterborough for example, you're not going to head over to the M1 near Leicester to head north.

That's not to say the A1 is easy to upgrade - it isn't from Baldock going north, it's not too difficult until you reach Biggleswade where quite alot of work would be needed, but Biggleswade is growing, so there's a pretty good case for upgrading the A1 and eliminating the roundabouts on it where there is 'east-west' traffic vying with 'north-south' traffic. Biggleswade - Sandy, the challenges are Lower Caldecote and Beeston. Now the Caldecote area has been touted for large scale housing on a few occasions - so maybe that will provide the opportunity to sort out the A1 - Beeston's trickier but a further bypass of Sandy to the west (can't do to the east because of the nature reserve) might be the solution there. Next you've got Tempsford where again a load of housing is planned, plus east-west railway, so that's a good opportunity to sort the A1 and get rid of that absurdly dangerous entrance into a boat yard which for the benefit of those who aren't familiar with it is from the *right hand lane* of the northbound carriageway. After that you've got a couple of villages which are probably easily sorted and then you're at the A1M at Alconbury.
 

PTR 444

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For city centre journeys I might buy it - there are no shortage of anti-car local authorities - the Mayor of London is one, but not the only example. But if you were making a journey from St Albans to Bristol or Northampton to Crewe there's little practical gain to using the train.





It may have its enjoyable bits, but it's also downright dangerous (and has been for 20 years) in a number of bits. There is precisely no excuse in 2023 to have 'flat' crossings on a major trunk route, yet the A1 has several still such as those at Great Ponton and Honeypot Lane south of Colsterworth. There are also absurdly short - and dangerous slip roads to join the A1 at places like Stamford.



I disagree - I think both are eminently "do-able" - the problem is between Peterborough and Doncaster they don't serve anywhere particularly large. And whilst the M1 does seem to 'shadow' the A1, the reality is it does so about 40 miles to the west (if you look at the distance of the A14 from Huntingdon to Catthorpe) - yes that narrows as you head further north - but from Peterborough for example, you're not going to head over to the M1 near Leicester to head north.

That's not to say the A1 is easy to upgrade - it isn't from Baldock going north, it's not too difficult until you reach Biggleswade where quite alot of work would be needed, but Biggleswade is growing, so there's a pretty good case for upgrading the A1 and eliminating the roundabouts on it where there is 'east-west' traffic vying with 'north-south' traffic. Biggleswade - Sandy, the challenges are Lower Caldecote and Beeston. Now the Caldecote area has been touted for large scale housing on a few occasions - so maybe that will provide the opportunity to sort out the A1 - Beeston's trickier but a further bypass of Sandy to the west (can't do to the east because of the nature reserve) might be the solution there. Next you've got Tempsford where again a load of housing is planned, plus east-west railway, so that's a good opportunity to sort the A1 and get rid of that absurdly dangerous entrance into a boat yard which for the benefit of those who aren't familiar with it is from the *right hand lane* of the northbound carriageway. After that you've got a couple of villages which are probably easily sorted and then you're at the A1M at Alconbury.
You’d probably be best off building a completely new offline bypass for that stretch of the A1, passing to the east of Biggleswade and St Neots before rejoining at the A14 interchange.
 

Bald Rick

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But if you were making a journey from St Albans to Bristol or Northampton to Crewe there's little practical gain to using the train.

I disagree - at certain times of day / week it can be considerably quicker on those particular journeys by train, and the same applies for almost any journey that makes use of the M6 between Coventry and Knutsford, the western side of the M25, the M42, and the M4 east of Reading. Of course it depends on your precise origin / destination with respect to relative journey times, and how many people are making the journey together, and what you need to take.

The route has long since been selected, albeit not confirmed through formal consultation or a consents process. (Which means ot could change). I remember looking at the consultation docs for the A1(M) around the west side of Grantham 30 years ago.
 
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