Is a trade off for getting a cheaper ticket. On an advance you need to do exactly what the ticket says.So you’re telling me that is illegal to get down before your final station? Why? I can’t find any logic to that.
Is a trade off for getting a cheaper ticket. On an advance you need to do exactly what the ticket says.So you’re telling me that is illegal to get down before your final station? Why? I can’t find any logic to that.
I certainly wouldn't risk it at an intermediate station.
And if I get on a train I don't want to be thinking about getting off again.
But it must be purchased before boarding the train.
Is a trade off for getting a cheaper ticket. On an advance you need to do exactly what the ticket says.
I think no one seems to believe that the woman was so determined to give me a fine for any reason so she clinged on the 7.29 thing and she didn’t see that the ticket was wrong altogether.I think she meant to type that she checked the 08:14 was cancelled and it wasn't.
Yes, some guards sell tickets but sometimes you will encounter revenue protection staff who will issue penalty fares or report you for potential prosecution. If there are facilities to buy tickets at the station you should use them. It will never be cheaper to buy on the train as the same tickets will be sold by the guard as are sold at a station.Seems a bit unreasonable to me, we went on the train today. The bus was late so we were late arriving at the station so no time to buy tickets. So we just bought tickets on the train instead which the guard was fine with. It’s actually cheaper to pay with cash on the train as well. Never had a problem paying on the train. If I got fined I’d just refuse to pay and get off at next station simple.
Railway Byelaw 18 states:Correct, but that can be at 0730 provided the doors haven't shut yet so you can still board! The inspector was wrong to say it wasn't OK to buy it at 0729.
So as the Byelaw is written it is an offence to board a train without a ticket, even if you had time to buy one before the train departed.18. Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas
- in any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel
Terrible advice. If there are adequate ticket issuing facilities at the station you board the train, you must use them (unless you are given permission to board the train). Failing to give details is also an offence and if you refused and happened to be met by the BTP at the next station it's you who would be in the wrong.Seems a bit unreasonable to me, we went on the train today. The bus was late so we were late arriving at the station so no time to buy tickets. So we just bought tickets on the train instead which the guard was fine with. It’s actually cheaper to pay with cash on the train as well. Never had a problem paying on the train. If I got fined I’d just refuse to pay and get off at next station simple.
We had a discussion before about what if you're boarding a train without the intention of travelling, for example a train is sitting at its terminus for the next 20 mins, so you board to use the toilet. So legally, if you board with a different intention, it would be fine.So as the Byelaw is written it is an offence to board a train without a ticket, even if you had time to buy one before the train departed.
Railway Byelaw 18 states:
So as the Byelaw is written it is an offence to board a train without a ticket, even if you had time to buy one before the train departed.
If the ticket office is open, you can be charged a Penalty Fare (if PFs apply) or a full fare (if they do not); you could even be reported for prosecution even if you had no intent to avoid payment of the fare.Seems a bit unreasonable to me, we went on the train today. The bus was late so we were late arriving at the station so no time to buy tickets. So we just bought tickets on the train instead which the guard was fine with. It’s actually cheaper to pay with cash on the train as well. Never had a problem paying on the train. If I got fined I’d just refuse to pay and get off at next station simple.
The time is irrelevant, it is the place that matters. I do agree that it would be somewhat harsh to issue a penalty fare or report where someone gets on without a ticket but has a ticket before the train departs, but it would be valid.Technically yes though it'd be a real jobsworth that did it that way. However the OP could have stood by but just outside the doors and it be fine. Thus buying at 0729 or even 0730 is legal. Just not 0731.
This is true but not at all relevant to the post at hand. The OP very clearly intended to travel, and therefore needed a ticket before boarding and not after.We had a discussion before about what if you're boarding a train without the intention of travelling, for example a train is sitting at its terminus for the next 20 mins, so you board to use the toilet. So legally, if you board with a different intention, it would be fine.
I did not bought the ticket after boarding the train. I waited on the platform until transaction was successful then boarded the train as I did not want to travel without a ticket.This is true but not at all relevant to the post at hand. The OP very clearly intended to travel, and therefore needed a ticket before boarding and not after
Post #1 says:I did not bought the ticket after boarding the train. I waited on the platform until transaction was successful then boarded the train as I did not want to travel without a ticket.
I bought that, while the doors were closing; purchase successful.
Not sure anyone answered this, but the appeal should stop the clock on the time you have to pay before it goes up to £107 so it can’t make things worse (unless you incriminate yourself for something else in your appeal of course).Do I have a chance to appeal if I had the wrong ticket? I don’t want pay the £57 but definitely don’t want to pay the £107
How long does and appeal last?
I am 100% sure I was not on the train without a ticket. Yes, I was on the platform, the beeping strated, purchase succesful, jumped on the train, doors closed.Post #1 says:
But you were 100% on board the train without a valid ticket. On this occasion, when you completed the purchase is of no importance as the ticket was never going to be valid on that train.I am 100% sure I was not on the train without a ticket.
Just a quick query on the bit about permission:If there are adequate ticket issuing facilities at the station you board the train, you must use them (unless you are given permission to board the train).
There was a ticket machine but as the bus was late we were late arriving at the station and the train came in pretty much when we stepped on the platform. If we had bought tickets from the machine we would have missed the train and it would have been an hour until the next one so obviously we weren’t going to do that. The guard actually said she preferred it when people buy in the train because if everyone just buys online she could be out of a job. And she did say it was cheaper to pay in cash becuase of the cost of processing the transaction. I’ve been to shops where it’s been cheaper to pay in cash for this reason.Yes, some guards sell tickets but sometimes you will encounter revenue protection staff who will issue penalty fares or report you for potential prosecution. If there are facilities to buy tickets at the station you should use them. It will never be cheaper to buy on the train as the same tickets will be sold by the guard as are sold at a station.
There was a ticket machine but because the bus was late we were late arriving at the station so didn’t have time to buy tickets, we would have missed the train if we did and it was an hour to the next one so we had to buy on the train.Railway Byelaw 18 states:
So as the Byelaw is written it is an offence to board a train without a ticket, even if you had time to buy one before the train departed.
Terrible advice. If there are adequate ticket issuing facilities at the station you board the train, you must use them (unless you are given permission to board the train). Failing to give details is also an offence and if you refused and happened to be met by the BTP at the next station it's you who would be in the wrong.
There was no ticket office but there was a ticket machine, but unfortunately due to the bus being late we had no time to buy tickets. :/If the ticket office is open, you can be charged a Penalty Fare (if PFs apply) or a full fare (if they do not); you could even be reported for prosecution even if you had no intent to avoid payment of the fare.
If the ticket office is closed or non-existent, then it comes down to whether there is a working machine or not; if there is a working machine which accepts your chosen payment method, then unless you had some disability which meant you couldn't use the machine, again the above applies and you could be in trouble. However if there is a notice stating you can buy on board, then that takes precedent, even if there is a machine.
If you require advice and/or wish to debate this further, please create a new thread as this one is dedicated to the issue the original poster has.
I advise you to be careful doing that because this is an offence, and you may end up with a Penalty Fare, or worse, prosecuted.There was a ticket machine but as the bus was late we were late arriving at the station and the train came in pretty much when we stepped on the platform. If we had bought tickets from the machine we would have missed the train and it would have been an hour until the next one so obviously we weren’t going to do that.
This is why I have doubts that my appeal would not be successful.But you were 100% on board the train without a valid ticket. On this occasion, when you completed the purchase is of no importance as the ticket was never going to be valid on that train.
As a foreigner I don’t even know how to start…but I’ll give it a go on Monday. (Monday because I have just turned 30 yesterday and family is here for the weekend)Definitely put the draft appeal wording up here to allow us to further advise.
Belated happy birthday, and try to enjoy the weekend with your family.As a foreigner I don’t even know how to start…but I’ll give it a go on Monday. (Monday because I have just turned 30 yesterday and family is here for the weekend)
Yes.Just a quick query on the bit about permission:
If I've arrived at the very last minute I have a couple of times approached the guard on the platform and asked them to come to sell me a ticket on the train after departure, to which they've agreed. Does this constitute permission to board should a revenue protection officer get to me before the guard?