Northern re-records 34 station name announcements with local pronunciation

[occone]

"We are now approaching ... ’I'll smash yer bloody face in’ Brinnington.... Please take all belongings and riot shields with you and take care when in stone throwing range of the locals"

 

[johnnychips]

I love these threads! I have been off work, so I hope they are now pronouncing Meadowhall as it is spelt, not ‘Meadowhole’, and talking of Hope, it rhymes with ‘rope’, not the vowel sound in ’cow’.

Slaithwaite, to its residents, is either Slawit, or Slath-waite, never Slay-thwaite.

I am intrigued how Doncaster is pronounced wrongly. I usually get the train there every day, and I haven’t noticed anything strange in the announcements.

 

[BeijingDave]

Slaithwaite, to its residents, is either Slawit, or Slath-waite, never Slay-thwaite.

As I said earlier.

But even the locals cannot seem to agree.

Another good Yorkshire one is the surname Featherstonehaugh, pronounced 'Fanshaw'

 

[Russel]

How is it possible to pronounce Chesterfield and Ilkeston wrong?

 

[OhNoAPacer]

How is it possible to pronounce Chesterfield and Ilkeston wrong?

I guess in cases like this it is the emphasis that comes into play

Chester Field Ches Terfield

 

[northwichcat]

Todmorden and Mythomroyd mispronounced and missing Low Moor and Bramley recordings.

She pronounces the 'morden' part as if it's the same as the London Underground terminus of Morden. It reminds me of hearing someone from the South West pronouncing the 'Chead' part of Cheadle Hulme, the same as the 'Ched' part of 'Cheddar'.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

How is it possible to pronounce Chesterfield and Ilkeston wrong?

Is it "Il-kes-ton" or possibly "Ilk-stun"?

Or even just "Il-son"?!

 

[Dr_Paul]

I'm waiting for this trend to reach London. Announcements would start with a loud ''Ere!' We could have Ackney Dahns, Ampstid Eef, Arra, Sahf'arra, Tah'ill, Obun, Grinnidge and a whole host of others. Great fun!

 

[BeijingDave]

I'm waiting for this trend to reach London. Announcements would start with a loud ''Ere!' We could have Ackney Dahns, Ampstid Eef, Arra, Sahf'arra, Tah'ill, Obun, Grinnidge and a whole host of others. Great fun!

Holborn stumps many northerners. I have had to convey its correct pronunciation many times.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

I am intrigued how Doncaster is pronounced wrongly. I usually get the train there every day, and I haven’t noticed anything strange in the announcements.

I've lived in Doncaster all my life, I pronounce it as its spelt with nothing added and nothing left out.
Southerners will add an "r" giving Doncarster.
A notable new addition, first heard on tv with Jeremy Clarkson is a rather clipped Doncster, which I'm confident is done for comic effect but which has oddly been adopted by the elected mayor of Doncaster in her public speeches. I can't recall anyone else ever using this version

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Unfortunately, no one is ever going to agree on local pronounciations which is why I think a Standard RP voice should just be used nationwide, like Ruth, Celia, Phil, dare I say Anne, although someone younger of course (and less old fashioned sounding than Phil/Celia). Emma Hignett would work well. RP is the generally agreed “Neutral” accent of the UK, and when companies stay neutral, there’s no dispute to be had.

 

[Rikki Lamb]

The problem is with some provincial places, even the locals pronounce the places differently to one another.

Slowit vs Slathwaite for Slaithwaite being an example.

When I lived in Coventry, even the locals couldn't seem to decide whether Stivichall was 'Stychal' or something more like 'Styvechale'. Some even still spell it the latter, archaic way.

Slawit

Given how bad the announcements are, I'm suprised they managed to pronounce Keighley correctly. It's very annoying they cannot pronounce Forster correctly.

 

[Russel]

Is it "Il-kes-ton" or possibly "Ilk-stun"?

Or even just "Il-son"?!

I've always known it pronounced how it's spelt.

 

[AM9]

Announcing stations with local names is fine as long as the majority of passengers who need to know where trains go to or stop at are locals. It's different if the service has a significant number of non-locals, who are more likely to need the information, esepically with some of the disputed pronunciations where even those from 10 miles away can't agree on how it should be said, e.g. Slaithwaite! To borrow from the League of Gentlemen, that would be 'local pronunciations for local people'.
Theres no difference between accents anywhere in terms of their relevance, So long as anybody using the trains can understand it the locals can laugh as much as they like, Holborn, Plaistow, Hainault, Theydon Bois, Yeading, etc..
Had so many branches in East Anglia not been closed in the last 70 years, there would be a thread just like this featuring Norfolk pronunciations.

 

[Parallel]

Given how bad the announcements are, I'm suprised they managed to pronounce Keighley correctly. It's very annoying they cannot pronounce Forster correctly.

How is it said? I’ve generally heard people from Bradford say ‘Foster’ rather than ‘For-ster’ but there seems to be a disagreement locally.

 

[AM9]

Slawit

Given how bad the announcements are, I'm suprised they managed to pronounce Keighley correctly. It's very annoying they cannot pronounce Forster correctly.

And is that 'Keithlee' and 'Fourster' in your view?

 

[geoffk]

The Scotrail units that occasionally worked the Carlisle-Newcastle service for Northern would announce Prudhoe ('Prudda') as 'Prood-ho'.

Wasn't it Northern crews east of Carlisle? I suppose Scotrail will have programmed the announcements, although Northern could have done their own voiceover.

 

[northwichcat]

I'm waiting for this trend to reach London. Announcements would start with a loud ''Ere!' We could have Ackney Dahns, Ampstid Eef, Arra, Sahf'arra, Tah'ill, Obun, Grinnidge and a whole host of others. Great fun!

The release says Northern have re-recorded the place names with the help of locals. It doesn't say they've used locals. In fact doing a quick Google on the names of the two Northern employees who have recorded the new accents - one is a guard based at York and the other is Northern's cyber security manager, who previously worked for a finance business in Brentford.

There's no mid-Cheshire person recording the annoucements for the Mid-Cheshire line or Fylde coast person recording the announcements for the Blackpool line.

Holborn stumps many northerners. I have had to convey its correct pronunciation many times.

Holborn is used on TV programs frequently, such as Secrets of the London Underground. Do the Londoners agree with how it gets pronounced on screen?

Announcing stations with local names is fine as long as the majority of passengers who need to know where trains go to or stop at are locals.

Tbh if I'd never heard of Mytholmroyd, I wouldn't be surprised if the first syllable was Myth or if it was My. It certainly wouldn't result in me not boarding a train because the name doesn't sound right. However, if I'd never heard the name I would presume how it's pronounced by the railways is correct unless I heard otherwise.

 

[AM9]

The release says Northern have re-recorded the place names with the help of locals. It doesn't say they've used locals. In fact doing a quick Google on the names of the two Northern employees who have recorded the new accents - one is a guard based at York and the other is Northern's cyber security manager, who previously worked for a finance business in Brentford.

There's no mid-Cheshire person recording the annoucements for the Mid-Cheshire line or Fylde coast person recording the announcements for the Blackpool line.



Holborn is used on TV programs frequently, such as Secrets of the London Underground. Do the Londoners agree with how it gets pronounced on screen?



Tbh if I'd never heard of Mytholmroyd, I wouldn't be surprised if the first syllable was Myth or if it was My. It certainly wouldn't result in me not boarding a train because the name doesn't sound right. However, if I'd never heard the name I would presume how it's pronounced by the railways is correct unless I heard otherwise.

That's fine if you have or can see the name written, but hearing Mytholmroyd pronounced in whatever way, in amongst a list of others that you might no know otherwise, doesn't really help much.

 

[northwichcat]

That's fine if you have or can see the name written, but hearing Mytholmroyd pronounced in whatever way, in amongst a list of others that you might no know otherwise, doesn't really help much.

Visual displays are mandatory so that passengers with impaired hearing are catered for. Just be thankful railway staff aren't required to study basic sign language to assist such passengers.

But which Yorkshire accent should they use? There are at least three variants going from Leeds, through Bradford and onto Halifax and the Calder Valley.....

I love arguments like this. Its just like the great t-cake & scraps ones that roam freely around social media...

If they want to use a Yorkshire voice network wide I'd suggest a Huddersfield accent. It's closer to a Lancashire/North West accent than a Sheffield, Leeds or Hull accent.

Unfortunately, no one is ever going to agree on local pronounciations which is why I think a Standard RP voice should just be used nationwide, like Ruth, Celia, Phil, dare I say Anne, although someone younger of course (and less old fashioned sounding than Phil/Celia). Emma Hignett would work well. RP is the generally agreed “Neutral” accent of the UK, and when companies stay neutral, there’s no dispute to be had.

The problem is when you have different neutral voices they don't always agree with each other. The neutral voice at Manchester Piccadilly gets Lostock Gralam correct but she's hesitant in delivering it, but at Chester the neutral voice gets it wrong. I'm pretty sure they disagree on Shrewsbury as well.

The other problem with neutral voices is when new stations or operators get added in. At Manchester Piccadilly terms like CrossCountry, East Midlands Railway and Buckshaw Parkway sound like they've recorded at a different time and then edited in to existing annoucements badly. If someone had recorded a while new announcement for the Liverpool to Norwich service it would sound better, even if it wasn't in the default voice.

 

[AM9]

I'm pretty sure they disagree on Shrewsbury as well.

It doesn't matter that there are two distinct pronunciations for Shrewbury, - even in the town itself. There aren't many that on hearing 'the other one' will be stumped as to what is meant. That's no different to Gl-as-gow and Glarsgow, or New-cassel and New Castle.

 

[northwichcat]

It doesn't matter that there are two distinct pronunciations for Shrewbury, - even in the town itself. There aren't many that on hearing 'the other one' will be stumped as to what is meant.

There's no sensible reason for a TfW Rail service from Chester to Hereford having a calling point pronounced differently to a TfW Rail service Crewe to Hereford service. If different pronunciations are accepted you normally pick the most commonly used one and stick with it. The time you'd normally use both is if some people might find one offensive, such as different Irish and English pronunciations of a place in Northern Ireland. TfW Rail seem more bothered about ensuring they use Welsh names for English stations where possible, than getting a correct and consistent English language pronunciation.

 

[AM9]

There's no sensible reason for a TfW Rail service from Chester to Hereford having a calling point pronounced differently to a TfW Rail service Crewe to Hereford service. If different pronunciations are accepted you normally pick the most commonly used one and stick with it. The time you'd normally use both is if some people might find one offensive, such as different Irish and English pronunciations of a place in Northern Ireland. TfW Rail seem more bothered about ensuring they use Welsh names for English stations where possible, than getting a correct and consistent English language pronunciation.

Are you intimating that some people get 'offended' with the use of one pronunciation over another, especially with Shrewsbury, where there might be a class issue, but nothing more. We're not comparing it with say 'Ken-ya' vs 'Keen-ya' are we.

 

[stadler]

Wasn’t the old announcer a posh more professional speaking geordie? Chosen because it’s generally seen as a very friendly accent, but the recordings didn’t mess up the stations or try and fake it. It just did the job.
You pay a fee, but you get the job done professionally and it just sounds so much better, localisms are great, but that’s not going to help a tourist (or someone with accessibility requirements) who needs it in plain english, which is surely the whole point in the announcements in the first place. It’s one of those things that you could probably set up a contract that they record a set number of announcements, then have another session or two for fixes from feedback etc. For future station openings you already have a good idea of what’s coming in the next 10 years or so, so just record them then (TfL had crossrail announcements done years prior to it opening for example)

It seems northern have gone for the cheap option and they ultimately sound terrible. ‘This is the northern service tuuu leeeeeeds’ is tacky and all in just very very poor.

The old announcers were Trisha Jarman for the main announcement and a different male voice for the safety announcements. Neither of them were Geordie accents. They were more generic Northern England accents. But i agree they sounded much better than the current two staff members. They were both professional voice over artists so are obviously going to sound a lot better than just two staff members who have been chosen to do them. As you say they have gone for the cheap option and they certainly sound a lot worse than the old ones.

I agree - the previous two are very professional yet also sound friendly. These two sound rather unprofessional. I wonder if the DfT asked Northern to take the recording in house to save costs in the long term.

I’m also surprised how this made the news? There have been numerous corrections to other operators announcements over the years - correct pronunciations should just be a given. Anne used to announce St Germans as ‘Sant Jur-MANs’ and Lostwithiel as ‘Loswivul’!

Slow news day i suppose. They have nothing else to report on so they pick things like this. I agree it does seem odd considering how many other TOCs have corrected mistakes. It reminds me of years ago when Southern Rail did a press release about them putting up "Onward Travel" posters with details of bus connections and taxi numbers at all of their stations despite no other TOCs thinking a press release was necessary for this.

Unfortunately there's a few mispronunciations at Chester - the Leeds services for example! Todmorden and Mythomroyd mispronounced and missing Low Moor and Bramley recordings. Though the voice they use is a lady from Cornwall so probably had no idea how to say them without guidance!

Yes it seems TFW are not that bothered with fixing mistakes. Considering that Bramley and Low Moor are still missing and that they are still using Anne for the Merseyrail and Northern recordings it seems unlikely they will fix mistakes like Lostock Grahlam and Mytholmroyd and Todmorden etc. They are definitely aware of these errors but they do not seem to care.

It is a shame as some TOCs and CIS suppliers are good at correcting things. I always thought that Amey did a very good job correcting mistakes. The "Only Woman" voice had three different pronunciations of "St Denys" station. Originally it was a really weird "Saint Denays" pronunciation and then it was changed to "Saint Dennis" and then it was changed again to "Saint Dennies" so they finally got it right on the third try. Then there was also Burneside which was originally "Burn Side" but then they quickly corrected it to the "Burn E Side" pronunciation. Then also there was Horton In Ribblesdale which was originally "Horton And Ribblesdale" but quickly corrected to the "Horton In Ribblesdale" pronunciation.

It is not hard to get announcers to record things again. But some TOCs just seem very incompetent with this sort of thing. To make things even more ridiculous Ruth has done new recordings for "Avanti West Coast" and "Great Western Railway" and "Transport For Wales" but has not corrected these mistakes and omissions which could have been done at the same time. TFW are a bit useless at this.

Unfortunately, no one is ever going to agree on local pronounciations which is why I think a Standard RP voice should just be used nationwide, like Ruth, Celia, Phil, dare I say Anne, although someone younger of course (and less old fashioned sounding than Phil/Celia). Emma Hignett would work well. RP is the generally agreed “Neutral” accent of the UK, and when companies stay neutral, there’s no dispute to be had.

I definitely agree. I think announcements should use an RP voice to ensure that they are easy to understand by the most amount of people. I think that "Only Woman" is the answer to this. She had a very neutral sounding RP voice and was very easy to understand. She was also not too posh or too old fashioned sounding. I always thought she sounded really good. If i had to pick just one favourite announcer it would probably be her. Nobody knows for sure who she is but i presume she is still alive and able to do announcements.

Celia Drummond and Phil Sayer worked very well too but sadly have passed away. Other than "Only Woman" out of the announcers still alive i think Julie Berry and Emma Hignett and Pauline Cavilla and Ruth Mitchell are probably the closest to RP and easy to understand. They all work very well.

I would not say Anne is really an RP voice. She is clear and easy to understand but has a very slight estuary accent. Although she is a lot better than some of the other Atos Worldline announcers like Matt and Karen etc.

Wasn't it Northern crews east of Carlisle? I suppose Scotrail will have programmed the announcements, although Northern could have done their own voiceover.

Yes it has always been Northern Rail employed Drivers and Guards between Carlisle and Newcastle but they are still Scotrail owned units so Northern Rail are unable to change the automated announcements or install their own voices on these units.

 

[leytongabriel]

I'm waiting for this trend to reach London. Announcements would start with a loud ''Ere!' We could have Ackney Dahns, Ampstid Eef, Arra, Sahf'arra, Tah'ill, Obun, Grinnidge and a whole host of others. Great fun!

You don't have to go into 'mockney' - there's enough difficulty with Holborn, Maryland, Marylebone, the various .......fords and ........tons, Tottenham, Highgate as it is, for Tfl staff. My personal bugbear is Wan-stead Park instead of Wonsted.

 

[northwichcat]

Are you intimating that some people get 'offended' with the use of one pronunciation over another, especially with Shrewsbury, where there might be a class issue, but nothing more. We're not comparing it with say 'Ken-ya' vs 'Keen-ya' are we.

No I clearly said TfW Rail should adopt the most common pronouncation and use it consistently. Like I said if we were talking about Northern Ireland then it would be different for political reasons. But if you know about merchants from Scotland and London taking over land from locals in Shropshire in the 1700s and it resulting in a war of independence in the 1900s then please enlighten me, as I don't know anything about it.

 

[occone]

Unfortunately, no one is ever going to agree on local pronounciations which is why I think a Standard RP voice should just be used nationwide, like Ruth, Celia, Phil, dare I say Anne, although someone younger of course (and less old fashioned sounding than Phil/Celia). Emma Hignett would work well. RP is the generally agreed “Neutral” accent of the UK, and when companies stay neutral, there’s no dispute to be had.

Just get the king himself in to do the announcements, it's sad Lizzy is gone but the new guy could probably command some authority. Let's get the royals working for once!

Edit: I'm not *actually* being serious before someone accuses me of being preposterous.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Just get the king himself in to do the announcements, it's sad Lizzy is gone but the new guy could probably command some authority. Let's get the royals working for once!

Edit: I'm not *actually* being serious before someone accuses me of being preposterous.

Of course we could extend announcements to other members of the Royal family and have Prince Andrew announcing Woking.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Can't wait until the Northumberland line reopens, they may need subtitles

 

[AM9]

No I clearly said TfW Rail should adopt the most common pronouncation and use it consistently. Like I said if we were talking about Northern Ireland then it would be different for political reasons. But if you know about merchants from Scotland and London taking over land from locals in Shropshire in the 1700s and it resulting in a war of independence in the 1900s then please enlighten me, as I don't know anything about it.

Both pronunciations of Shrewsbury are in common use and the difference is so insignificant that nobody can complain that they don't know which place is being announced when it is the 'other' pronunciation. So in fact, TfW should use whichever one it chooses and no adult passenger will get upset about it.