Class 221 for Grand Central

[trainswitheddy]

Oh that's odd. Seemed to run through Saturday. Crew issues?

Seems all this week and next week are booked as the same, unsure about next month

 

[M1544]

Apparently only 7 Ex-Avanti 221s are to transfer to cross country with the new contract. Does this mean a much higher probability of Grand Central getting more 221s to replace the 180s completely as there will be now be spare ex Avanti 221s?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Apparently only 7 Ex-Avanti 221s are to transfer to cross country with the new contract. Does this mean a much higher probability of Grand Central getting more 221s to replace the 180s completely as there will be now be spare ex Avanti 221s?

The most we can tell from it is that the option remains open, but does not guarantee anything.
7 might just be the most the Treasury would give the money for.

 

[Energy]

The most we can tell from it is that the option remains open, but does not guarantee anything.
7 might just be the most the Treasury would give the money for.

Unclear if 7 is all the Treasury will fund or all that Avanti can release short term. It isn't a secret that Avanti's London - Birmingham/Manchester routes make a lot of money, so the government will give them priority.

The previous XC 170 lengthening announcement was short-term, I wouldn't expect any announcement until Avanti are close to being able to release the rest of the 221s.

 

[Trainbike46]

Unclear if 7 is all the Treasury will fund or all that Avanti can release. It isn't a secret that Avanti's London - Birmingham/Manchester routes make a lot of money, so the government will give them priority.

In the long term, wouldn't avanti be releasing all their voyagers as they're being replaced by their new, larger 805/807 fleet, which also offer higher capacity per train?

 

[Energy]

In the long term, wouldn't avanti be releasing all their voyagers as they're being replaced by their new, larger 805/807 fleet, which also offer higher capacity per train?

Yes, today they are using all but 4 221s so it'll be a while till they can release them all.

 

[43102EMR]

Unclear if 7 is all the Treasury will fund or all that Avanti can release short term. It isn't a secret that Avanti's London - Birmingham/Manchester routes make a lot of money, so the government will give them priority.

The previous XC 170 lengthening announcement was short-term, I wouldn't expect any announcement until Avanti are close to being able to release the rest of the 221s.

7 is all the DfT will allow - read somewhere that they were originally going to offer them nothing and then they just gave them enough Voyagers (35 carriages) to replace the HSTs

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

7 is all the DfT will allow - read somewhere that they were originally going to offer them nothing and then they just gave them enough Voyagers (35 carriages) to replace the HSTs

Far better than where budget cuts have been imposed elsewhere, like at GWR (twice!) and Southern. People are being greedy

 

[dk1]

7 is all the DfT will allow - read somewhere that they were originally going to offer them nothing and then they just gave them enough Voyagers (35 carriages) to replace the HSTs

Should allow some improvements as weren’t only a couple of HSTs in use each day?

Will allow cover for refurb too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Should allow some improvements as weren’t only a couple of HSTs in use each day?

Absolutely. 7 daily diagrams (assuming spares will just be the existing spares), or 6 at fewest, will do far, far more for capacity than the HSTs ever did due to their low utilisation.

 

[43096]

Absolutely. 7 daily diagrams (assuming spares will just be the existing spares), or 6 at fewest, will do far, far more for capacity than the HSTs ever did due to their low utilisation.

Although it should not be forgotten that the plan was to up HST utilisation once the C6 overhaul programme was complete.

 

[43102EMR]

Should allow some improvements as weren’t only a couple of HSTs in use each day?

Will allow cover for refurb too.

A lot more were used prior to Covid, think it was 3 sets a day with 2 spare. Happy to be corrected though!

 

[The_Train]

7 is all the DfT will allow - read somewhere that they were originally going to offer them nothing and then they just gave them enough Voyagers (35 carriages) to replace the HSTs

I mean, this is great news, if you ignore the fact that they needed more Voyagers when they had the HSTs and that at the same time they announced the "new" stock, they also announced a new route which I presume will eat up most of this "new" stock
Cross Country is an absolute wreck of a TOC but it's very British to reward utter incompetence and failure - after all, the country keeps re-electing the Tories

 

[Kite159]

.

I mean, this is great news, if you ignore the fact that they needed more Voyagers when they had the HSTs and that at the same time they announced the "new" stock, they also announced a new route which I presume will eat up most of this "new" stock
Cross Country is an absolute wreck of a TOC but it's very British to reward utter incompetence and failure - after all, the country keeps re-electing the Tories

I suspect that the daily Cardiff - Edinburgh train will simply be a Bristol starter, running in marginal time where the unit would otherwise be sitting on the depot.

Or an early morning Cardiff - Nottingham changed to be a voyager and changed to running to Edinburgh with an additional Birmingham - Nottingham service. Unless that random Bristol - Stansted service gets diverted to be a Bristol - Nottingham train.

 

[dk1]

Or an early morning Cardiff - Nottingham changed to be a voyager and changed to running to Edinburgh with an additional Birmingham - Nottingham service. Unless that random Bristol - Stansted service gets diverted to be a Bristol - Nottingham train.

That service had been Gloucester to Stansted for many years before starting back from Bristol. I presume the change was for operational convenience more than anything else.

 

[swt_passenger]

That service had been Gloucester to Stansted for many years before starting back from Bristol. I presume the change was for operational convenience more than anything else.

It was because the overnight stabling location of the 170s changed from Cardiff to Bristol, so it was possible to run what would have been ECS in passenger service.

 

[dk1]

It was because the overnight stabling location of the 170s changed from Cardiff to Bristol, so it was possible to run what would have been ECS in passenger service.

That's it. Barton Hill. Knew it was something operational wise rather than s commercial decision.

 

[The_Train]

Or an early morning Cardiff - Nottingham changed to be a voyager and changed to running to Edinburgh with an additional Birmingham - Nottingham service. Unless that random Bristol - Stansted service gets diverted to be a Bristol - Nottingham train.

They should definitely leave that as a 2 car 170

 

[Merle Haggard]

And I've been censured for veering away from the strict thread title on other threads

 

[The_Train]

And I've been censured for veering away from the strict thread title on other threads

We all have, you're not a proper forum member on here if you haven't experienced this

(ps this will be removed at some point )

 

[Merle Haggard]

We all have, you're not a proper forum member on here if you haven't experienced this

(ps this will be removed at some point )

 

[yorksrob]

Just seen one whooshing through Normy.

Driving cars looked very newly painted and smart. Middle cars were in the old livery.

 

[Wyrleybart]

7 is all the DfT will allow - read somewhere that they were originally going to offer them nothing and then they just gave them enough Voyagers (35 carriages) to replace the HSTs

But that is the point. The HSTs have not been replaced. Two trailers have gone to be shredded at Sims, eight are at Neville Hill for Tuesday's tour and the rest I believe have been shunted together at Laira ready for handback to the Rosco.

AIUI the HSTs have not been replaced by any additions to the XC fleet, rather the fleet of 58 voyagers have been rediagrammed to cover the former HST diagrams.

 

[Driver068]

Just seen one whooshing through Normy.

Driving cars looked very newly painted and smart. Middle cars were in the old livery.

That's the plan with GC. Stripped of Avanti logos and replaced with GC logos.
Front and rear vehicles in GC livery only. Thats how it will look for the foreseeable.

 

[dk1]

That's the plan with GC. Stripped of Avanti logos and replaced with GC logos.
Front and rear vehicles in GC livery only. Thats how it will look for the foreseeable.

Looks very smart in my opinion. Reminds me of that Bombadier liveried VT Voyager atceach end.

 

[M1544]

1023 Bradford Intc to Kings Cross and 1627 Kings Cross to Bradford both allocated 221143 today throughout.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

That's the plan with GC. Stripped of Avanti logos and replaced with GC logos.
Front and rear vehicles in GC livery only. Thats how it will look for the foreseeable.

Why only the front and back getting the livery and not the whole unit?

 

[Driver068]

Looks very smart in my opinion. Reminds me of that Bombadier liveried VT Voyager atceach end.

I agree, however i bet it would look pretty cool in GC livery throughout.

 

[Liam L]

Why only the front and back getting the livery and not the whole unit?

Cost is the most likely reason. There only on lease for 12 months currently I believe.

 

[yorksrob]

That's the plan with GC. Stripped of Avanti logos and replaced with GC logos.
Front and rear vehicles in GC livery only. Thats how it will look for the foreseeable.

Indeed. Can't blame them for frivolous repainting.