BahrainLad
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You don’t need a 400m train.
Technically the channel tunnel rules state that the minimum train length is 375m, so while you don't have to have a 400m train, it's not far off. The issue of whether there is a market (and security capacity!) for a train with well over 900 seats, as a double decker would end up having, remainsYou don’t need a 400m train.
The issue of whether there is a market (and security capacity!) for a train with well over 900 seats, as a double decker would end up having, remains
Technically the channel tunnel rules state that the minimum train length is 375m, so while you don't have to have a 400m train, it's not far off. The issue of whether there is a market (and security capacity!) for a train with well over 900 seats, as a double decker would end up having, remains
Review of specific safety rules for trains transiting the tunnel – The IGC
published the conclusions of its review on 31 March 2010. The IGC asked ERA
for a technical opinion on these conclusions in December 2010. The opinion
was published in March 2011.
Further to the opinion, the IGC asked to make the necessary changes to its
operating rules to remove rules requiring compliance with particular fire
protection standards for the design and performance of vehicles and their
fittings, and for call buttons at the end of each coach, as these requirements are
dealt with by the rolling stock TSIs. It was also decided that trains no longer
had to have the ablility to be split. Finally, trains were no longer required to be
of a particular length; have a through-corridor; and motor units at each end, and
applicants were invited to propose such systems with a requisite risk
assessment using EC Regulation 352/2009.
20120928 - IGC Annual Report 2011 EN 3145826 10/25
Would it make sense then ordering a more traditional TGV trainset (2 power cars + 8 coaches), and allow for the option of doubling up if necessary?No, that rule was dropped in 2011 and as I said it’s an (inexplicable) urban myth that it persists.
you may also wish to consult this document
Based on what I've read on here and in the media, I'd say Lumo is rather successful with only 5tpd! It depends on their operating model - blended (i.e. similar to Eurostar, standard and 1st class), or budget only, and what service pattern they will offer, as to the utilisation of the sets. Would 1tp2h be possible with 12 trainsets?Interesting that if this does succeed, it will be the only operator to operate double decker trains to the UK, it would provide Eurostar with some much needed competition and could lower prices if it were to succeed. Sadly I don't think that they will provide as frequent of a service as Eurostar, due to them only ordering 12, so it would be more what Lumo, GC and HT are doing to LNER.
Alternatively might do more of style of Spanish High speed rail competitor iryo. 4 grades of tickets with set of fees for amendments and flexibility to change depending on grade. More like an airlineInteresting that if this does succeed, it will be the only operator to operate double decker trains to the UK, it would provide Eurostar with some much needed competition and could lower prices if it were to succeed. Sadly I don't think that they will provide as frequent of a service as Eurostar, due to them only ordering 12, so it would be more what Lumo, GC and HT are doing to LNER.
Nothing against Lumo here, just saying that it wouldn't be an hourly service, so those looking for a real budget rail operator between the UK and the continent wouldn't have a lot of flexibility compared to Eurostar passengers. As we have seen recently, GC has been struggling and their low frequency has been a pain for passengers whose service has been cancelled and no ticket acceptance with LNER has been agreed.I'd say Lumo is rather successful with only 5tpd!
True, they may try to compete with LCCs (Low Cost Carriers) instead of Eurostar, which will still help lower Eurostar's prices, and do what Iryo and Lumo are doing.Alternatively might do more of style of Spanish High speed rail competitor iryo. 4 grades of tickets with set of fees for amendments and flexibility to change depending on grade. More like an airline
I do hope that they refrain from the extra charge hell of Wizzair and Ryanair. I tried to book a flight with one last month for a few months ahead and extra baggage prices were already in the £100s.Alternatively might do more of style of Spanish High speed rail competitor iryo. 4 grades of tickets with set of fees for amendments and flexibility to change depending on grade. More like an airline
Linking their website which shows the types of ticket and extra charges
Unlike Mobico, seems Evolyn is Spanish, or rather ultimately owned by Compania de los Ferrocarriles Economicos de Asturias SAU, which makes the Spanish high speed passenger model seem a realistic scenario.
EVOLYN MOBILITY LIMITED overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK
EVOLYN MOBILITY LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activityfind-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk
On the back of a napkin: London to Paris is 2h15m, 1h30 turnaround at either end (about as low as Eurostar seems willing to go), so 8 units should be able to sustain 1tph? Plus four more, either to keep spare or to run extra peak trains. Not too far off from what Eurostar runs on the Paris route.Sadly I don't think that they will provide as frequent of a service as Eurostar, due to them only ordering 12
Interesting they have a website (and logo): https://evolyn.com/
- EVOLYN, the new rail operator for the Channel Tunnel, will launch a high-speed rail service to offer a modern, innovative and sustainable alternative to the more than 11 million passengers who travel by train between the UK and different countries of mainland Europe every year.
- The new operator has reached an agreement for the acquisition of 12 high-speed trains -that could scale up to 16 from the French manufacturer Alstom with the aim of starting to run in 2025.
- EVOLYN is a project of high technical and financial soundness that has been under development for the last three years and continues to move forward to offer a competitive alternative in terms of service and price on a strategic and high-demand connection that currently has only one operator, while responding to the growing demand for green transportation
The EVOLYN project involves an estimated total investment of £1 billion GBP. It is led by the Spanish Cosmen family and is backed by important British and French industrial and financial partners. Thus, EVOLYN is born as a solid combination of an extensive and proven industrial experience together with an important financial strength.
"The acquisition of 12 high-speed, state-of-the-art trains, to be expanded to a minimum of 16 according to our forecasts, is the definitive step in the materialization of EVOLYN, a high-speed rail operator that has been under development for three years and that today marks a very important milestone. We know that the governments of the United Kingdom and France welcome a project that will allow their citizens to increase the connection options between the UK and several countries in continental Europe with a green alternative that will also contribute to decarbonization", says Jorge Cosmen, CEO of EVOLYN.
The high-speed trains will be of the AVELIA range and will meet all current high standards of sustainability, efficiency and reduction of energy consumption and CO2 emissions. Specifically, EVOLYN plans to contribute to achieving a significant reduction in CO2 emissions by 2030 and zero emissions by 2050, by offering much cleaner, greener and smarter transport. In terms of sustainability, EVOLYN's new service will therefore be one of the best solutions on the market, offering travelers the best modern and digital customer experience.
All in all, EVOLYN will become an innovative alternative for a strategic and high-demand line both in the UK and Europe, which will seek to provide the best quality offer at competitive prices and become the trusted choice of users.
True, they could do that at the start, and then lower the frequency or order more trains if they wish to expand elsewhere, like to Brussels or Amsterdam.On the back of a napkin: London to Paris is 2h15m, 1h30 turnaround at either end (about as low as Eurostar seems willing to go), so 8 units should be able to sustain 1tph? Plus four more, either to keep spare or to run extra peak trains. Not too far off from what Eurostar runs on the Paris route.
Not a train planner, mind you, so very possible I'm utterly bungling the math here.
I'm inclined to think that what Evolyn is saying might not really be the true picture. You would expect Alstom to be trumpeting to the world that they are back in the cross-channel train building business, but they haven't said a peep. Perhaps there is an outline agreement on the table but Evolyn didn't actually sign on the dotted line yet.
The project has apparently been in development for 3 years, so possibly they have options on build slots. Maybe they have agreement to hire or takeover some of the existing order which is why Alstom are quietAnd in two years are Alstom supposed to design and build(where? SNCF won't be pleased if their TGV M deliveries are delayed by a E* rival) a new variant of TGV, do homologation for three different infrastructure operators, whilst the operator will have to acquire all the necessary licenses, build a new maintenance depot and train new staff?! I wouldn't be surprised if this project eventually comes to fruition, but personally I think the idea that passengers will be stepping onto an Evolyn cross channel train 2025 is pure fantasy and just makes them look less credible.
Staffing is interesting one, but maybe they will poach staff (didn't Eurostar take staff from BR, SNCF, SNCF
3) St Pancras and Paris Nord are capacity-limited. Why would this lead to lower fares necessarily? Slot-constrained Heathrow is the obvious parallel, yields and margins there are far juicier than elsewhere. Open access fare wars on rail need loads of spare capacity end-end; Spanish HSLs are the obvious example, London-Paris is not.
That very likely means it's still pending a financial close. Alstom will probably remain quiet on the subject until the order is final and they can start building.The wording "The new operator has reached an agreement for the acquisition of 12 high-speed trains" is perhaps not what you'd write if the trains had actually been ordered.
The wording "The new operator has reached an agreement for the acquisition of 12 high-speed trains" is perhaps not what you'd write if the trains had actually been ordered.
Alstom statement on Evolyn Press Release issued on October 11
13 October 2023 – In reference to the recent Evolyn Press Release issued on October 11, which seemingly confirmed an agreement between Evolyn and Alstom for the acquisition of twelve (12) Very High-Speed Trains, Alstom would like to provide important information, as a means of clarification, and as such wishes to highlight the following items:
Alstom and Evolyn have established a short-term agreement to proceed with initial train system engineering activities with the objective of accelerating activities, should the parties eventually enter into a contract for the purchase and delivery of a certain number of trains, provided that Evolyn is capable of securing project financing.
With regards to potential future delivery dates for new trains, at this time, the final train delivery dates will be confirmed when a firm and final contract will be agreed upon, to be signed at a later date.
Alstom have also heard the news, here's their statement: