Yes indeed: it's worth emphasising that no decisions have been made as yet regarding the future of this fleet beyond the December 2023 temporary timetable.Interesting to see the following paragraph in TPE's October Stakeholder briefing
Hopefully we might see them return in May.Yes indeed: it's worth emphasising that no decisions have been made as yet regarding the future of this fleet beyond the December 2023 temporary timetable.
Won't staff start to lose competence once they stop being used? Having to go back through another round of training isn't exactly what TPE needs.Hopefully we might see them return in May.
So far this week 1U63 15:35 of Manchester Piccadilly has been a Mk5 set on Tuesday only - was TP10 + 68030. Note 1U29 is the first part from Scarborough to Manchester then 1U39 to Scarborough then 1U52 to Manchester so look out for them tomorrow. Its an intensive use of the trans-Pennine route and the sets seem to cling to the York/Scarborough end more only venturing across the Pennines to get to/from Longsight (i.e Manchester Piccadilly).Question: I have to be in Manchester tomorrow (13th) for work and then travel to Leeds. Is the 1530 Manchester > Scarboro a hauled set?
Isn't May 2024 when the lease on the Mk5s expires ?.Hopefully we might see them return in May.
Along with a full timetable.
Think that will another nail for the coffin.Won't staff start to lose competence once they stop being used? Having to go back through another round of training isn't exactly what TPE needs.
The 17:30 was 68+Mk5s on Tuesday as well.You could always hang on for 1U71 the 17:30 from Manchester. That only ran as Mk5s on Wednesday.
to late sadly - i will just chance it!You could always hang on for 1U71 the 17:30 from Manchester. That only ran as Mk5s on Wednesday.
DOHL (Department for Transport Operator of Last Resort Holdings) have already stated that any capacity problems (pre-TRU) will not be solved by ordering new rolling stock. As previously mentioned, that all but rules out any additional Class 802s.Isn't May 2024 In a few years time when the Trans Pennine upgrades are done and paths increase extra 802s from Hitachi will be very tempting. The staff will have competency on the 802s already obviously and Hitachi will no doubt be not very busy by then.
Sadly it appears the Mk5s have been usurped by 802s.
It is certainly very unhelpful.Won't staff start to lose competence once they stop being used? Having to go back through another round of training isn't exactly what TPE needs.
Yes, a point that many have overlooked.Yes indeed: it's worth emphasising that no decisions have been made as yet regarding the future of this fleet beyond the December 2023 temporary timetable.
Not ordering new rolling stock only has to be true of course until some point in the future.DOHL (Department for Transport Operator of Last Resort Holdings) have already stated that any capacity problems (pre-TRU) will not be solved by ordering new rolling stock. As previously mentioned, that all but rules out any additional Class 802s.
It is certainly very unhelpful.
In addition, whilst subleasing the locos back to DRS would recoup some of the leasing money, there will still be the cost of leasing the Mk5A sets plus presumably storage costs on top of that.
Yes, a point that many have overlooked.
It’s interesting that the ‘Metro Mayors’ have been a lot less keen than forum members on the idea of £110 million of rolling stock bought to improve rail services in the north not being utilised in the north.
Robin Gisby’s speech to TfN was full of many ‘alternative facts’, but the one thing he did get right was when he inadvertently criticised one of the Nova 3 replacements when he mentioned having observed ‘a 3 car TPE train chugging its way towards Huddersfield.’
Yes, at some point in the future there will, of course, be new rolling stock, I haven’t said otherwise.Not ordering new rolling stock only has to be true of course until some point in the future.
We can only hope that pressure from the "Metro Mayors" is enough to keep these new trains in use. After all there is a service to be provided to passengers.
Proves that they can be used.The 17:30 was 68+Mk5s on Tuesday as well.
Wednesday was an excellent day for 68 action, as four were out in service, including on the two diagrams that come across to Manchester and back.
Indeed.Proves that they can be used.
Yes, if it gets to next summer and SCR-YRK are 3 car 185s, mainly just shuttling and overcrowded, the s*** will hit the fan over the media, with demands that OLR get services back to at least the poor levels of previous TPE management. More stock will be needed from somewhere.Yes, at some point in the future there will, of course, be new rolling stock, I haven’t said otherwise.
The key thing, as mentioned, is that DOHL have stated no new rolling stock pre-TRU stock. It would be very surprising if the TRU stock were to appear within the next four years or so.
Naturally there’s the talk of the TPE fleet currently being ‘60% bigger’ than in 2018. This sounds impressive until you stop to consider how many trains in 2018 were totally inadequate 3-car trains.
The current TPE claim that they have sufficient rolling stock without the Nova 3 sets is at odds with previous statements by both Chris Jackson (TPE MD) and Paul Staples (TPE Fleet Director).
Yes, completely agreed.Yes, if it gets to next summer and SCR-YRK are 3 car 185s, mainly just shuttling and overcrowded, the s*** will hit the fan over the media, with demands that OLR get services back to at least the poor levels of previous TPE management. More stock will be needed from somewhere.
Quite. I think since 68031 spat its dummy out on 30th August the 68 fleet has been fairly trouble free.Proves that they can be used.
Shhhhh! Don’t jinx itQuite. I think since 68031 spat its dummy out on 30th August the 68 fleet has been fairly trouble free.
The Mk5s have had to struggle against the favouritism odds for quite some time it seems.Shhhhh! Don’t jinx it
You make an excellent point.
The two major problems were (largely) fixed by the work done at Wolverton and Neville Hill.
Replacement connector/receptacle for the loco/stock communication cable and improved wiring for the Automatic Hot Axel Box Detectors.
It’s been a huge shame that the Class 68/Mk5A sets have never been introduced into squadron service on high mileage diagrams. It must have been a nightmare for engineers trying to improve reliability with a maximum of six in traffic, mainly operating Scarborough shuttles.
The elephants in the room appear to remain stabling, maintenance and training though. They can't all be on out and back diagrams from Longsight.Commercially that would also depend on return of passenger numbers and lease contract terms.
Not really sure why they need to be on out and back diagrams from Longsight.The elephants in the room appear to remain stabling, maintenance and training though. They can't all be on out and back diagrams from Longsight.
68023/TP09 on 1U39.Apologies if it's already been mentioned (couldn't see a post that specifically mentioned today) but I've just seen a Nova3 set pass Batley on 1U39. First one I've seen west of York in daylight hours for a while. Was going too fast to see the loco number, and RTT shows it pathed as a DMU with no info on which loco and set it is.
It would've been 68023 + TP09. Another good day for 68s today with four sets out.Apologies if it's already been mentioned (couldn't see a post that specifically mentioned today) but I've just seen a Nova3 set pass Batley on 1U39. First one I've seen west of York in daylight hours for a while. Was going too fast to see the loco number, and RTT shows it pathed as a DMU with no info on which loco and set it is.
Seems a big own goal between December and May to pay leasing/storage charges whilst at the same time ensuring all the drivers/conductors lose competency…Currently perceived wisdom is that Nova 3s are a failure and they aren't coming back.
Logic says almost new trains should not be scrapped.
They're liveried up for TPE so again logic says TPE should be first choice for further use.
No operator wants to lease faulty trains. Are all the suggested faults fully understood and already fixed or being fixed in the near future?
Assuming they were all fixed and a fully functioning fleet was available some time in 2024 where could they be deployed?
Given that by then all previous training knowledge will probably have expired could TPE stand the pain of starting training all over again?
Two routes were tried, Scarborough most intensely yet mostly as York shuttles. South Pennine training used up numerous revenue earning paths for over 18 months with almost no reward.
IF, a big IF, they came back, how many reliable units would it need to operate a full Nova 3 South Pennine service? The thought of more lost revenue earning paths for training would swing my vote against, but if they were long term reliable one more period of pain might just be worth it?
Commercially that would also depend on return of passenger numbers and lease contract terms.
Yes, indeed so.The Mk5s have had to struggle against the favouritism odds for quite some time it seems.
68023/TP09 on 1U39.
Thanks both. Now slightly regretting going for the cheap option of Northern advances for my trip to Lancashire, when I could perhaps have got some 68 miles in!It would've been 68023 + TP09. Another good day for 68s today with four sets out.
Always the wayThanks both. Now slightly regretting going for the cheap option of Northern advances for my trip to Lancashire, when I could perhaps have got some 68 miles in!
Unfortunately I've no chance today as I'm picking up my new car... unless they can stick a Motorail van on the back of 1U63 and put in a special stop order for Batley!Always the way
If it’s any help 68023 is diagrammed on
1U52 1248 Scarborough-Man Picc then 1U63 1535 Man Picc-Scarborough.
Seems a big own goal between December and May to pay leasing/storage charges whilst at the same time ensuring all the drivers/conductors lose competency…
1U39 is part of a usual Mk5 diagram number 2. Should be 1U52 12:48 back to Manchester.Apologies if it's already been mentioned (couldn't see a post that specifically mentioned today) but I've just seen a Nova3 set pass Batley on 1U39. First one I've seen west of York in daylight hours for a while. Was going too fast to see the loco number, and RTT shows it pathed as a DMU with no info on which loco and set it is.
Car vs 68 - I don't understand the problem !.Unfortunately I've no chance today as I'm picking up my new car... unless they can stick a Motorail van on the back of 1U63 and put in a special stop order for Batley!
Looking at Real Time Trains, last Saturday at least in the afternoon and evening pretty much all TPE trains to/from Scarborough appear to have been 185s. Does this mean that the 68s and Mark 5s have recently lost all booked workings at weekends? If not, does anyone know what services (if any) they will work tomorrow?Yes, the York-Scarborough line is usually pretty good for Class 68/Mk5A sets on a weekend. No problem at all with the list, I hope you have a great trip
Nail / head interface on pretty much all counts, @sjpowermac!DOHL (Department for Transport Operator of Last Resort Holdings) have already stated that any capacity problems (pre-TRU) will not be solved by ordering new rolling stock. As previously mentioned, that all but rules out any additional Class 802s.
It is certainly very unhelpful.
In addition, whilst subleasing the locos back to DRS would recoup some of the leasing money, there will still be the cost of leasing the Mk5A sets plus presumably storage costs on top of that.
Yes, a point that many have overlooked.
It’s interesting that the ‘Metro Mayors’ have been a lot less keen than forum members on the idea of £110 million of rolling stock bought to improve rail services in the north not being utilised in the north.
Robin Gisby’s speech to TfN was full of many ‘alternative facts’, but the one thing he did get right was when he inadvertently criticised one of the Nova 3 replacements when he mentioned having observed ‘a 3 car TPE train chugging its way towards Huddersfield.’