Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
About time I got round to posting this, so here goes.
Last Friday, I got a trip on the 197 from Llandudno to Blaenau and back. Unfortunately this wasn't a great trip in terms of the reliability of the unit - first of all it broke down at Tal y Cafn for half an hour, then continued to Llanrwst, then it was decided to go to Betws because most passengers wanted there, then it continued to Blaenau and back an hour late, turning at the Junction on the way back to hopefully manage the last trip. I can certainly give compliments to the guard, who didn't just hide in the cab but walked up and down keeping people well informed in a friendly manner despite no doubt being annoyed at getting back nearly an hour late for his tea! I am quite intrigued as to what sort of breakdown would necessitate going out of service but then allow a decision to go back into service despite the fault not being solved - but then I suppose things are often a bit more relaxed and pragmatic down that way. I was surprised TfW didn't leave a 153 at the Junction just in case, but I guess they're too tight on stock to do it.
Interestingly an attempt was made by Control to get buses or taxis, but apparently none were available, hence the decision to continue in service.
But anyway, onto the unit itself, which due to all this I got to experience for around 4 hours rather than the intended 2.5 or so...
The basics...
In terms of the bodyshell and basics of the "metal tube" this is a Class 195 with gangways. Window positions are the same, doors are the same, and unfortunately TfW has specified the same harsh, direct lighting as Northern, rather than the (presumably costing extra) much nicer indirect lighting on the 196 and 397. Like the 196 the CCTV cameras looked vulnerable to a knock. One thing I did notice was that build quality was a bit poor, with e.g. damage to the interior panelling painted over in a slightly different white, which looked like it had been caused while fitting the window rubber, and quite a lot of black grime. I guess this was one of the first units built in Wales, so the staff still getting used to things? There were also quite a lot of rattles and a bit of a Class 158-like engine/transmission whine. Spotlights were fitted but not in use - perhaps they should be turned on to give a classier feel?
I did notice that (I think) the ceiling panels are matt rather than the Spanish-like gloss on 195s, but this doesn't really make any difference to very much.
Engine/power
The unit, when it was working, made easy work of the Conwy Valley's steep gradients and tight curves. No over-revving, no shuddering or squealing, and despite some rattles a totally different feel from a 150. No fumes got in in the tunnel, either, so I guess the exhaust routing vs. aircon inlet position is sensible. As mentioned above there was a bit of a 158-like whine which I hadn't noticed before on a CAF unit, though that may have just been audible where I was sitting - I usually sit in the end section of 195s but I was in the middle of this one (and of the 196, though, where I didn't notice that).
Toilet
Oh dear, it was out of order. This wasn't at all ideal on a line with no toilets at most stations (even Betws' public loos close at night), and I had to avail myself of a bush during our extended wait at Tal y Cafn. A group of women who boarded at Betws having come from the pub were even less impressed. I remain of the view, therefore, that building units with only one toilet facility for use in rural areas is an unacceptably bad design error, and one that could really do with being reversed by adding a small toilet in the other driving vehicle.
Door height
I'd never noticed it before but like 175s these have quite high floors, and Tal y Cafn platform was almost an abseil. The "Harrington hump" seems wrongly positioned for these units and may need to be moved - the front door only as local door was used here with the back off the platform. The stepboard is wide, though, and so more useful than many DMUs as your foot fits on it.
Luggage provision
More than 195s, but inadequate. Overheads are massive as all CAF stock, but the two-car unit contained only one small luggage stack. This will be a problem on summer services, though it wasn't on this winter evening run of mostly day trippers and commuters on the way home from Llandudno. They really need to remove a whole bay (or two rows of airlines) in the middle section of each vehicle and add a large rack, this will be needed in summer. Perhaps a shelf could be added above the cycle area, too, as First North Western used to do.
Heating/aircon
Wasn't working. Oops. It was freezing.
Decor
Somewhat Spartan compared to the 196. The lighting we're stuck with, but the red and grey gives a utilitarian impression similar to Chiltern's blue and red 165 interior. The main suggestion I'd make here is that TfW should get some vinyls printed with famous Welsh scenery (they've got enough of it!) and put it on the grey vehicle ends which are beyond drab, plus inside the bog as some TOCs have done to deter vandalism. This would be cheap, and would really improve things. They could even consider theming and naming each unit. Grey leather headrests on the seats good, though, that always adds a real touch of class. But I would say that it is quite notable that the Elizabeth Line Class 345 - a unit intended for utilitarian purposes if there ever was one - looks much classier with its black grab poles, grey panelling and indirect lighting, as does the 196 due to similar features.
Window alignment
Not as bad as I thought. Only 3 rows were totally misaligned in a full vehicle (plus the seats by the doors which had small windows per the 196). This isn't too bad, and there wasn't an obvious way to rejig to align more properly without speccing a different window layout per the 196. Certainly better than the 150s that usually ply this route, and better than the 195, but not as good as the 158.
Ride
Didn't seem bad on the Valley's jointed track, but as it's basically a 195 in terms of the outer shell it'll be similar to one of those. No bottoming-out, and no noticeable banging or juddering, but this tends to occur more at speed than at 40mph so I'm not sure I can judge if it's been improved on the 195 here.
Seats
And finally...we had to get onto seats.
First thing, legroom was good. I had plenty of room in a standard airline seat. It didn't, oddly, appear that the priority seats had much more space, but that could have been an optical illusion. Better than the 196 here.
Not as many tables as the 158 or 195 (I think it was 6 per full vehicle, 2 in each end section and 2 in the middle), but I think the balance isn't terrible. Perhaps one more table in the centre section would be good, but then that'd reduce airline legroom. Not sure here.
The actual seats are Fainsa Sophias, on which my opinion is known, largely because of the "metal bar" issue with the base (the rest of the seat is fine). However it appears a different shape of base cushion foam has been used than most of them do. The "metal bar" wasn't noticeable, but then it isn't on a brand new 80x, they take a while to collapse. I hope the different shape of cushion, which is thicker further back, will solve the problem - and if so every Sophia-using TOC should fit that and I'll withdraw my objections to them, as they do have upsides like the thin back meaning good legroom. Only time will tell here.
Moquette is ribbed as per the current fad, and already showing wear as this style always does. Not a great choice. Leather headrests a great idea though, every TOC should do that, both classy and practical without making the whole seat get sticky in hot weather.
Not enough seats in the coach with the catering area which seems a massive waste of space when you could trolley mount it all and just provide a much smaller cupboard for plugging in water boilers for the trolley. It's also quite ugly (stainless steel and covered in H&S signage) and could do with a pull down blind with some scenery on it to cover it. A small "standing cafe" would fit in the space, or 6 seats. I don't think this was a sensible choice on the 2-car units.
PIS
As per the 196 wasn't quite working properly, but no doubt will get there as the same system works fine on 195s. The automatic PA had a very odd and disconcerting echo, it seemed the speakers weren't quite in sync within the vehicle. The voices sounded reasonable and it could be heard clearly.
Livery
Suits the unit quite well. I wonder if grey window bands would add to it but I'm not sure. Curiously there were coach number stickers on the outside, which said different things from the electronic displays and weren't the right colour...
Overall
Not as bad as I thought. I think on balance, provided the new shape of seat foam works, I'd take one over a 158 (because I fit all seats), a 196 (same, despite it looking classy) and a 195 (because I prefer airline seats and like to look out of the window). A second toilet is absolutely necessary, the catering area is a massive waste of space, and there isn't enough luggage space, plus the interior has a Spartan look to it. But overall probably more suitable to the routes TfW run than end-doored units, so on balance more design choices were probably right than not. Utilitarian but not amazing, but with a few serious design flaws. And for Pwllheli in summer, 4 car working will definitely be needed.
Photos (mine): unit approaching Llandudno at twilight, unit at Betws, cancelled (or is it?) on PIS, 2 views of the Sophia and its differently-shaped cushion, a bodge painted over by the window.
Last Friday, I got a trip on the 197 from Llandudno to Blaenau and back. Unfortunately this wasn't a great trip in terms of the reliability of the unit - first of all it broke down at Tal y Cafn for half an hour, then continued to Llanrwst, then it was decided to go to Betws because most passengers wanted there, then it continued to Blaenau and back an hour late, turning at the Junction on the way back to hopefully manage the last trip. I can certainly give compliments to the guard, who didn't just hide in the cab but walked up and down keeping people well informed in a friendly manner despite no doubt being annoyed at getting back nearly an hour late for his tea! I am quite intrigued as to what sort of breakdown would necessitate going out of service but then allow a decision to go back into service despite the fault not being solved - but then I suppose things are often a bit more relaxed and pragmatic down that way. I was surprised TfW didn't leave a 153 at the Junction just in case, but I guess they're too tight on stock to do it.
Interestingly an attempt was made by Control to get buses or taxis, but apparently none were available, hence the decision to continue in service.
But anyway, onto the unit itself, which due to all this I got to experience for around 4 hours rather than the intended 2.5 or so...
The basics...
In terms of the bodyshell and basics of the "metal tube" this is a Class 195 with gangways. Window positions are the same, doors are the same, and unfortunately TfW has specified the same harsh, direct lighting as Northern, rather than the (presumably costing extra) much nicer indirect lighting on the 196 and 397. Like the 196 the CCTV cameras looked vulnerable to a knock. One thing I did notice was that build quality was a bit poor, with e.g. damage to the interior panelling painted over in a slightly different white, which looked like it had been caused while fitting the window rubber, and quite a lot of black grime. I guess this was one of the first units built in Wales, so the staff still getting used to things? There were also quite a lot of rattles and a bit of a Class 158-like engine/transmission whine. Spotlights were fitted but not in use - perhaps they should be turned on to give a classier feel?
I did notice that (I think) the ceiling panels are matt rather than the Spanish-like gloss on 195s, but this doesn't really make any difference to very much.
Engine/power
The unit, when it was working, made easy work of the Conwy Valley's steep gradients and tight curves. No over-revving, no shuddering or squealing, and despite some rattles a totally different feel from a 150. No fumes got in in the tunnel, either, so I guess the exhaust routing vs. aircon inlet position is sensible. As mentioned above there was a bit of a 158-like whine which I hadn't noticed before on a CAF unit, though that may have just been audible where I was sitting - I usually sit in the end section of 195s but I was in the middle of this one (and of the 196, though, where I didn't notice that).
Toilet
Oh dear, it was out of order. This wasn't at all ideal on a line with no toilets at most stations (even Betws' public loos close at night), and I had to avail myself of a bush during our extended wait at Tal y Cafn. A group of women who boarded at Betws having come from the pub were even less impressed. I remain of the view, therefore, that building units with only one toilet facility for use in rural areas is an unacceptably bad design error, and one that could really do with being reversed by adding a small toilet in the other driving vehicle.
Door height
I'd never noticed it before but like 175s these have quite high floors, and Tal y Cafn platform was almost an abseil. The "Harrington hump" seems wrongly positioned for these units and may need to be moved - the front door only as local door was used here with the back off the platform. The stepboard is wide, though, and so more useful than many DMUs as your foot fits on it.
Luggage provision
More than 195s, but inadequate. Overheads are massive as all CAF stock, but the two-car unit contained only one small luggage stack. This will be a problem on summer services, though it wasn't on this winter evening run of mostly day trippers and commuters on the way home from Llandudno. They really need to remove a whole bay (or two rows of airlines) in the middle section of each vehicle and add a large rack, this will be needed in summer. Perhaps a shelf could be added above the cycle area, too, as First North Western used to do.
Heating/aircon
Wasn't working. Oops. It was freezing.
Decor
Somewhat Spartan compared to the 196. The lighting we're stuck with, but the red and grey gives a utilitarian impression similar to Chiltern's blue and red 165 interior. The main suggestion I'd make here is that TfW should get some vinyls printed with famous Welsh scenery (they've got enough of it!) and put it on the grey vehicle ends which are beyond drab, plus inside the bog as some TOCs have done to deter vandalism. This would be cheap, and would really improve things. They could even consider theming and naming each unit. Grey leather headrests on the seats good, though, that always adds a real touch of class. But I would say that it is quite notable that the Elizabeth Line Class 345 - a unit intended for utilitarian purposes if there ever was one - looks much classier with its black grab poles, grey panelling and indirect lighting, as does the 196 due to similar features.
Window alignment
Not as bad as I thought. Only 3 rows were totally misaligned in a full vehicle (plus the seats by the doors which had small windows per the 196). This isn't too bad, and there wasn't an obvious way to rejig to align more properly without speccing a different window layout per the 196. Certainly better than the 150s that usually ply this route, and better than the 195, but not as good as the 158.
Ride
Didn't seem bad on the Valley's jointed track, but as it's basically a 195 in terms of the outer shell it'll be similar to one of those. No bottoming-out, and no noticeable banging or juddering, but this tends to occur more at speed than at 40mph so I'm not sure I can judge if it's been improved on the 195 here.
Seats
And finally...we had to get onto seats.
First thing, legroom was good. I had plenty of room in a standard airline seat. It didn't, oddly, appear that the priority seats had much more space, but that could have been an optical illusion. Better than the 196 here.
Not as many tables as the 158 or 195 (I think it was 6 per full vehicle, 2 in each end section and 2 in the middle), but I think the balance isn't terrible. Perhaps one more table in the centre section would be good, but then that'd reduce airline legroom. Not sure here.
The actual seats are Fainsa Sophias, on which my opinion is known, largely because of the "metal bar" issue with the base (the rest of the seat is fine). However it appears a different shape of base cushion foam has been used than most of them do. The "metal bar" wasn't noticeable, but then it isn't on a brand new 80x, they take a while to collapse. I hope the different shape of cushion, which is thicker further back, will solve the problem - and if so every Sophia-using TOC should fit that and I'll withdraw my objections to them, as they do have upsides like the thin back meaning good legroom. Only time will tell here.
Moquette is ribbed as per the current fad, and already showing wear as this style always does. Not a great choice. Leather headrests a great idea though, every TOC should do that, both classy and practical without making the whole seat get sticky in hot weather.
Not enough seats in the coach with the catering area which seems a massive waste of space when you could trolley mount it all and just provide a much smaller cupboard for plugging in water boilers for the trolley. It's also quite ugly (stainless steel and covered in H&S signage) and could do with a pull down blind with some scenery on it to cover it. A small "standing cafe" would fit in the space, or 6 seats. I don't think this was a sensible choice on the 2-car units.
PIS
As per the 196 wasn't quite working properly, but no doubt will get there as the same system works fine on 195s. The automatic PA had a very odd and disconcerting echo, it seemed the speakers weren't quite in sync within the vehicle. The voices sounded reasonable and it could be heard clearly.
Livery
Suits the unit quite well. I wonder if grey window bands would add to it but I'm not sure. Curiously there were coach number stickers on the outside, which said different things from the electronic displays and weren't the right colour...
Overall
Not as bad as I thought. I think on balance, provided the new shape of seat foam works, I'd take one over a 158 (because I fit all seats), a 196 (same, despite it looking classy) and a 195 (because I prefer airline seats and like to look out of the window). A second toilet is absolutely necessary, the catering area is a massive waste of space, and there isn't enough luggage space, plus the interior has a Spartan look to it. But overall probably more suitable to the routes TfW run than end-doored units, so on balance more design choices were probably right than not. Utilitarian but not amazing, but with a few serious design flaws. And for Pwllheli in summer, 4 car working will definitely be needed.
Photos (mine): unit approaching Llandudno at twilight, unit at Betws, cancelled (or is it?) on PIS, 2 views of the Sophia and its differently-shaped cushion, a bodge painted over by the window.
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