Can and will train seats become comfortable again?

[Joseph T]

Regarding what many rail review YouTubers have said about the recent trend towards uncomfortable seats, especially Thameslink and GWR, and that it could be down to fireproofing regulations, what are some possible/existing examples of comfortable seats that still abide by said regulations, and if/when may they be used nationwide?

 

[JonathanH]

Regarding what many rail review YouTubers have said about the recent trend towards uncomfortable seats, especially Thameslink and GWR, and that it could be down to fireproofing regulations, what are some possible/existing examples of comfortable seats that still abide by said regulations, and if/when may they be used nationwide?

What is often funny is that once people are familiar with seats and they start to get a bit softer, people don't object to them as much. In any case, a lot of the views on different types of seats is subjective. Some people like them, some don't.

 

[Bikeman78]

Regarding what many rail review YouTubers have said about the recent trend towards uncomfortable seats, especially Thameslink and GWR, and that it could be down to fireproofing regulations, what are some possible/existing examples of comfortable seats that still abide by said regulations, and if/when may they be used nationwide?

Are fire regulations really the reason? Plane seats are softer then the 700 and IET seats. The last place you want flammable seats is on a plane so I'd expect the standard to be at least as strict as that which applies to train seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are fire regulations really the reason? Plane seats are softer then the 700 and IET seats. The last place you want flammable seats is on a plane so I'd expect the standard to be at least as strict as that which applies to train seats.

A combination of that and cost. Some TOCs are willing to cough up, e.g. Avanti for the in my view excellent new Pendolino seat.

 

[Bikeman78]

A combination of that and cost. Some TOCs are willing to cough up, e.g. Avanti for the in my view excellent new Pendolino seat.

How good are the seats on Ryanair? I've never flown with them.

 

[JonathanH]

How good are the seats on Ryanair? I've never flown with them.

Relative to other airline seats they are basic, and designed to maximise space.

 

[W-on-Sea]

The recent Standard Class renovation of the Avanti Pendolinos answers this question, and very positively. At least if others follow suit.

 

[physics34]

Train seats used to have well padded backs and sprung seat bases. Apparantly the sprung seat cushion (which acted as secondary suspension!) contains spaces where a fire can fester.
How many train fires can you think of that have occured and caused mass injury in the uk in recent years???...

New seats are overkill, and its an excuse to lower costs. Many newer seats also dont have removeable covers so are cheaper in that respect too.

Id imagine there is a way around this but the fire regs are being used as an excuse.

We need a 'department' somewhere in the railway that is focused on passenger comfort.

 

[superalbs]

Train seats used to have well padded backs and sprung seat bases. Apparantly the sprung seat cushion (which acted as secondary suspension!) contains spaces where a fire can fester.
How many train fires can you think of that have occured and caused mass injury in the uk in recent years???...

New seats are overkill, and its an excuse to lower costs. Many newer seats also dont have removeable covers so are cheaper in that respect too.

Id imagine there is a way around this but the fire regs are being used as an excuse.

We need a 'department' somewhere in the railway that is focused on passenger comfort.

Wasn't there a review a few years ago, that promised to make train seats comfier? What came of that?

What is often funny is that once people are familiar with seats and they start to get a bit softer, people don't object to them as much. In any case, a lot of the views on different types of seats is subjective. Some people like them, some don't.

Like what? Which recently introduced seat has actually got significantly better?

 

[Mat17]

Leg room has certainly improved over the past decade, if nothing else.

 

[43096]

Relative to other airline seats they are basic, and designed to maximise space.

But are more comfortable than the majority of new train seats: IET, I’m looking at you.

 

[chubs]

I find the 745 and 755 seats extremely comfortable. Even the original 375 seats are fine, just not the thin ones on the /9. Ryanair slimline seats comfortable too.

Not comfortable seats include mk2 and mk3 original seats, the old thick Ryanair seats to name a few.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Leg room has certainly improved over the past decade, if nothing else.

Indeed, though with exceptions, e.g. the 720, 730 and 196 where it is poor.

 

[Bryson]

It's exactly the same with Airline seats. I fly long haul a great deal and the economy seats have become uncomfortable after just a few minutes never mind 14 hours. They are rock solid.

The airlines use the same excuse - fire regulations, but somehow these don't seem to apply in Business or First.....

The real reason is that the seat are been made ever thinner to allow more seats to be fitted without reducing the leg room even further. The oldest cabins now tend to be the most comfortable because the older seats actually have a seat pad.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

But are more comfortable than the majority of new train seats: IET, I’m looking at you.

However the seats that went before many of the IETs, those awful IC70s to be found in unrefurb mk3s were also marmite to people. A lot detested them.

 

[RailWonderer]

On a two and a half hour trip to the Lake District from Euston the refurbed Pendolino seats were very hard and uncomfortable, the spongy pre refurb seats were far superior. It's all down to cost, a comfortable seat that complies with fire regulations is more expensive, so it's not the fire regulations themselves.

In Europe there are some armchair like seats on European trains, even in standard on a lot of Stadler SMILE and KISS units for example, and the Railjet so it can be done but the operator has to place passenger comfort as a priority to encourage more people to use the transport instead of driving.

 

[Lemmy282]

I seem to remember Northern showing off three different types of seat a few years ago when they were getting their new CAF sets. The public were asked to rate them and the best would be fitted to the new units. Not sure the results were ever published, but I always thought the ones eventually fitted were the worst of the three, although probably the cheapest!

 

[Mzzzs]

I think emr 810s seats would be interesting since they brought in a company to design them to make them more comfortable

 

[Energy]

On a two and a half hour trip to the Lake District from Euston the refurbed Pendolino seats were very hard and uncomfortable, the spongy pre refurb seats were far superior. It's all down to cost, a comfortable seat that complies with fire regulations is more expensive, so it's not the fire regulations themselves.

Each to their own, I found the new seats perfectly comfortable and the old ones far too warm..

If it was cost Avanti would have installed something far worse.

 

[Bikeman78]

It's exactly the same with Airline seats. I fly long haul a great deal and the economy seats have become uncomfortable after just a few minutes never mind 14 hours. They are rock solid.

Interesting. I've not flown since Covid. During the 2010s, I did a few long haul flights on Boeing 747 or Airbus A340 which presumably had older seats in them.

 

[43096]

However the seats that went before many of the IETs, those awful IC70s to be found in unrefurb mk3s were also marmite to people. A lot detested them.

IC70s are fabulous… On a par with the seats in SBB’s EuroCity stock as the finest seats fitted to any train.

 

[samuelmorris]

I've flown on a few different aircraft in economy this year, the Virgin 787 and Finnair A350 were absolutely fine, I don't remember the easyJet A319 being too bad but the Wizz Air A320/321 were quite unpleasant. I'm not sure I'd write off airlines the same way I do train operators yet as it only really seems like the low-cost carriers use bad seats which is perhaps as you'd expect!

I think the only way to actually change this trend would be for people to start actually linking long-term injuries to them. As much as I dislike the seating on stock like 700s, 387s, 800s etc, long journeys on them has never done me any harm. 345s on the other hand, doing several long journeys a week has actually left me with lasting pain in the relevant areas that takes a couple of days to subside. This is one of several reasons I try not to use the Elizabeth line for longer journeys now. I find myself wondering what the consequences might be if I did the full hour each way, 5 days a week every week. There must be people that suffer consequences from sitting on an uncushioned surface for 10 hours a week?

 

[Mat17]

I concur with the above. I once did 1 hr 20 mins on a Merseyrail 142 and I had leg pains and back ache for days afterwards.

 

[507021]

Until those specifying new trains prioritise passengers' needs over things they think are nice to have, then no. Take the 777s as an example, Merseytravel decided to specify PIS screens which serve very little purpose to many passengers because of their poor positioning and being difficult to read. These screens also show where the train is at any given moment along with the ETA, which again, is only of use to the minority of passengers who can actually see the screen. I personally would rather Merseytravel didn't bother with them and put the money towards more comfortable seats. This is the reason why when I move to Chester, journeys over to Liverpool will be in my car.

 

[Neptune]

I seem to remember Northern showing off three different types of seat a few years ago when they were getting their new CAF sets. The public were asked to rate them and the best would be fitted to the new units. Not sure the results were ever published, but I always thought the ones eventually fitted were the worst of the three, although probably the cheapest!

All 3 cost the same and the final seat was a combination of what the public said was preferred from all 3 resulting in a seat which cost more.

Personally I find the seats perfectly fine for a decent length journey. The base is thicker and contoured than the test seats (not the flat base found on the 387 and 700), it has an upright slim back which is good for posture and stops my back from aching unlike a lot of older more reclined soft backed seats (IC70 and original 158 seats for instance) and as a bonus give extra legroom in airline seats.

It doesn’t stop the lazy and increasingly dull ‘ironing board’ tag being labelled at them constantly.

 

[Thirteen]

I don't find the Class 345s too bad but I only use them for short journeys and I suspect TfL priorities standing spaces over seating anyway.

 

[Bishopstone]

I suspect that most complaints about modern train seating are, in reality, complaints about the users' niggling musculoskeletal, arthritic and hernia (etc) issues, which the railway is unable to resolve. If your body has become a bit crooked, any form of seating will become uncomfortable after an hour or so - even BR Mk1s.

 

[philosopher]

The issue here is what is an uncomfortable seat to one person is a comfortable seat to another person. Whatever seating a train operator puts in, some people are going to find it uncomfortable.

Personally I very much like the refurbished Pendolino seating. The IC70 seats are comfortable but are too low down for my liking, perhaps they were designed when people were shorter. The class 800 family seating is not great, but it is not awful either.

 

[507 001]

Until those specifying new trains prioritise passengers' needs over things they think are nice to have, then no. Take the 777s as an example, Merseytravel decided to specify PIS screens which serve very little purpose to many passengers because of their poor positioning and being difficult to read. These screens also show where the train is at any given moment along with the ETA, which again, is only of use to the minority of passengers who can actually see the screen. I personally would rather Merseytravel didn't bother with them and put the money towards more comfortable seats. This is the reason why when I move to Chester, journeys over to Liverpool will be in my car.

Could not agree more.

 

[D365]

Until those specifying new trains prioritise passengers' needs over things they think are nice to have, then no. Take the 777s as an example, Merseytravel decided to specify PIS screens which serve very little purpose to many passengers because of their poor positioning and being difficult to read. These screens also show where the train is at any given moment along with the ETA, which again, is only of use to the minority of passengers who can actually see the screen. I personally would rather Merseytravel didn't bother with them and put the money towards more comfortable seats. This is the reason why when I move to Chester, journeys over to Liverpool will be in my car.

PIS is legislated, so there's no way of not "putting money" on it.