helpneededpls
Member
I’m so stressed
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Thanks for your reply, do you know how long I’ll have to wait for the letter? it’s killing me to think about having to wait for weeks and weeks to get to the end of thisFirstly, don't panic. It'll cost you money, but if you browse this part of the forum you'll find lots of examples where the train company on this route settles for an apology together with a payment of the amount of money they've missed out on, plus some costs they claim to have incurred in dealing with it. Typically they'll look up previous times they think you travelled without a valid ticket and add those in.
Write notes for yourself of exactly what happened now - you'll be surprised how quickly you forget. Then wait for the letter.
(For understanding, as soon as one lie is detected, that's a legitimate trigger for writing up for prosecution, as they can no longer trust anything else you say and it justifies a proper investigation by the company.)
Ok, I’m absolutely terrified regarding getting a criminal record - is it normal for them to offer an out of court settlement? I was reading the TfL posts where people were literally given prosecution right away and this is sending me insaneLook at those other threads, but it shouldn't take more than a week or two. If it doesn't arrive soon and it's seriously upsetting your mental state, you can try to get in contact with them first but people on the forum don't usually recommend that except using a lawyer because it's difficult to say only the correct things and saying wrong things can make it worse for you.
It says Govia Thameslink Railway and Witness Statement Receipt on the paperworkWere you given some paperwork? Check what it says. Cambridge to Kings Cross should say GTR (or one of their brands) on it, not TfL. GTR usually offers settlements to people who ask for them.
Many thanks for your reply, this is comforting. Would you say that the likelihood of an outright criminal conviction is probably not going to happen? How often do they just give you one anyway? I’m beside myself with regret and anxiety and I can’t believe I was so stupid. Do I need to contact a lawyer?Welcome to the forum!
Thankfully for you GTR are one of the more pragmatic train companies when it comes to dealing with this sort of thing. Their letter will typically take a few weeks to arrive and you normally get a couple of weeks to reply. I recommend writing a short, concise reply that includes the following points:
- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter
GTR are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. We cannot guarantee this and teh train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court shoudl they decide to do so although I would say this is unlikely.
If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.
Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.
In addition to @Hadders comment regarding a likely settlement cost, note that the railway typically uses full price single fares to calculate any amount due. If you have done four return journeys then they could ask for 8x29 in unpaid fares, in addition to the admin fee. You would have to pay this quickly, so if you are short of funds it is worth thinking now about how you could have that available, in the event that they make you a settlement offer.
At this stage I would wait until you get the letter, come back here and post it (with personal info redacted), and we can give you help on an appropriate letter to draft. If that is unsuccessful in getting an out of court settlement offer (and on the evidence of cases on this forum, you are likely to get one) then I think that would be the time to get a lawyer involved.Will having done multiple return journeys with the unknowingly expired railcard reduce the chance of a settlement? I’m wondering if I should contact a lawyer as the criminal conviction would destroy my life
At this stage I would wait until you get the letter, come back here and post it (with personal info redacted), and we can give you help on an appropriate letter to draft. If that is unsuccessful in getting an out of court settlement offer (and on the evidence of cases on this forum, you are likely to get one) then I think that would be the time to get a lawyer involved.
Having accidentally used an expired railcard is highly unlikely to destroy your life. There are some jobs where criminal convictions are clearly of more concern, but here again, there is a difference in forgetting to renew your railcard and (as an example) deliberately short faring or doughnutting to avoid paying the correct fare, and I would hope employers would be understanding of that in assessing the severity of any conviction.
If you do what I advise upthread, I would expect you to be offered a settlement.Many thanks for your reply, this is comforting. Would you say that the likelihood of an outright criminal conviction is probably not going to happen? How often do they just give you one anyway? I’m beside myself with regret and anxiety and I can’t believe I was so stupid. Do I need to contact a lawyer?
Thanks for this. Do you know in the case of getting a conviction would this show up on an enhanced DBS check and stop me getting visas for certain countries?If you do what I advise upthread, I would expect you to be offered a settlement.
I don’t think there’s anything to gain by contacting a lawyer at this point. Wait for the letter and see what it says. If you get an unfavourable to your reply to their letter then that would be the time to contact a lawyer.
Whatever the outcome, a convocation for a minor railway ticketing issue is highly unlikely to have an impact on your career.
If it is a conviction under Railway Byelaws then it should not show up; if under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889(!) it will, but train operators tend to opt for the former which is easy to prove. Neither is likely to have an impact on your career, though concealing a conviction would.Thanks for this. Do you know in the case of getting a conviction would this show up on an enhanced DBS check?
Sorry, above my pay gradeand stop me getting visas for certain countries?
and of course, the renewed Railcard couldn’t be backdated, so you still travelled with invalid tickets on all four (five?) occasionsA Railcard a month out of date and 4 return journeys on it are small beer in the world of ticketing irregularities. Your sort of case is very common and exacerbated by Trainline and other online ticket sellers automatically applying the discount when it is no longer valid.
The inspector may have been hostile, but it's likely the GTR office will just see it as business as usual.
I really don't know why the inspector thought they had to give permission for you to renew the Railcard. They could easily find out the previous expiry date and the exact time you renewed, and they did!
We cannot advise on visas but if you are convicted by a court (either because you plead guilty or are found guilty following a trial) then you will have a criminal conviction.Thanks for this. Do you know in the case of getting a conviction would this show up on an enhanced DBS check and stop me getting visas for certain countries?
Thank youTo help reassure the OP, we've seen many cases here where the card expiry has been much longer than a month, and far more incorrect journeys made than four, where an out of court settlement has nonetheless been offered.
As an aside, it's interesting that the inspectors are being paired up as "good cop, bad cop". The OP was perhaps unlucky in the order that they approached him/her!
Have a look at what people have said above about what damage a conviction will do you: to put it briefly, it’s unlikely to be disastrous.Hello,
I accidentally forgot to renew my 16-25 railcard on the train (only 1 journey was taken without the railcard as it was only expired for 3 weeks and I did not notice). I got sent the initial letter from govia thameslink, replied with a full response asking for an out of court settlement with photographs of my new railcard and ticket on the day (railcard was renewed on the day, on the train, the same minute of departure, the revenues protections officer came up to me before the train had even left). I got no response and a month later I received a court summons this weekend. I have not been able to eat, sleep or think about anything else as this will result in the loss of my job and I have diagnosed anxiety too. Could hiring a lawyer help me still receive an out of court settlement? Why do you think I was not offered one? My friend had the same thing happen and was offered an out of court settlement so I don't know why my case has been dealt with so differently. I am so upset that I might lose my entire future over a railcard.