GwR HSTs to be stood down

[150249]

Would anyone know the current status of 43194? And if likely to return at Laira?
Heard it may have been one of the few that had a power unit change?
Possibly with an exported example.

I was wondering that. I heard that it was still at Laira awaiting repairs but I don't know.

 

[DBS92042]

Would anyone know the current status of 43194? And if likely to return at Laira?
Heard it may have been one of the few that had a power unit change?
Possibly with an exported example.

43194 last worked on the 24/08/23 and is currently stood down at Laira T&RSMD.
I can't say 100% that it's never going to run again in the UK but given the changes in GWR HST diagrams from December and the 20 other currently active power cars available with GWR, I think its unlikely to reappear with GWR

 

[ClnRe]

43194 last worked on the 24/08/23 and is currently stood down at Laira T&RSMD.
I can't say 100% that it's never going to run again in the UK but given the changes in GWR HST diagrams from December and the 20 other currently active power cars available with GWR, I think its unlikely to reappear with GWR

Will all the GWR HST power cars currently active be retained after the December diagram changes?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

For those in South Wales who wish to ride the final HST from Cardiff Central, I should warn you that the 1900 Cardiff Ctrl to Taunton/beyond and 1954 Cardiff Ctrl to Bristol TM HST shuttle are showing as cancelled from Cardiff Ctrl today and starting at Newport. The inwards from Penzance also terminate at Newport.

Does anyone know why the last two HST from Cardiff have been cancelled?

 

[Parallel]

Does anyone know why the last two HST from Cardiff have been cancelled?

I don’t know about the 19:00 but the 19:54 is due to a shortage of train crew.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I don’t know about the 19:00 but the 19:54 is due to a shortage of train crew.

Only between Cardiff and Newport?
Perhaps the lack of train crew is the drivers to reverse in Canton sidings.

 

[43096]

Only between Cardiff and Newport?
Perhaps the lack of train crew is the drivers to reverse in Canton sidings.

Or crew taking a PNB and stepping back at Cardiff. By turning round at Newport they can take a PNB there and work the same set back - if you’re a crew short, it saves a full cancellation.

 

[TrainTrackJack]

Does anyone know why the last two HST from Cardiff have been cancelled?

No crew for 2C91, and the set doing 2C89 allows it to be returned to Laira from Taunton this evening.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Looks like Cardiff has seen its last HST then, brothers

 

[The_Train]

Looks like Cardiff has seen its last HST then, brothers

Until the next one, when GWR have a shortage of IETs

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Until the next one, when GWR have a shortage of IETs

Not when they start to run out of crew competence. Being captive on Mon-Sat Plymouth Penzance shuttles will make them very tricky indeed to be crewed up to Cardiff.

 

[The_Train]

Not when they start to run out of crew competence. Being captive on Mon-Sat Plymouth Penzance shuttles will make them very tricky indeed to be crewed up to Cardiff.

Same could be said of Worcester, but we've had a bout 10 final visits of HSTs to there in recent months!
It's quite clear that GWR's fleet is depleted, so I wouldn't be writing anything off at this stage

 

[RPI]

Until the next one, when GWR have a shortage of IETs

Won't happen, Exeter drivers have been made to take them off their traction card.

 

[LowLevel]

Won't happen, Exeter drivers have been made to take them off their traction card.

That has always seemed a peculiarly stupid thing at GWR, enforcing the removal of traction and route knowledge before it lapses. I'm just about to lapse on class 156 with them all having left the fleet 6 months ago but they'll stay on my traction card until 2025 when it's recertified.

 

[RPI]

That has always seemed a peculiarly stupid thing at GWR, enforcing the removal of traction and route knowledge before it lapses. I'm just about to lapse on class 156 with them all having left the fleet 6 months ago but they'll stay on my traction card until 2025 when it's recertified.

I may be wrong, and I'm sure someone will be along to confirm or correct me, but it has more to do with ASLEF not being happy about there being no booked work from Monday.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

may be wrong, and I'm sure someone will be along to confirm or correct me, but it has more to do with ASLEF not being happy about there being no booked work from Monday.

Do you mean they’re not happy that there’s not no booked work from Monday? ASLEF don’t like the HSTs. They wouldn’t be unhappy with them having no work surely, and they do have work on PLY PNZ of course.

 

[RPI]

Do you mean they’re not happy that there’s not no booked work from Monday? ASLEF don’t like the HSTs. They wouldn’t be unhappy with them having no work surely, and they do have work on PLY PNZ of course.

I mean what I originally said, but this was just messroom talk.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Which depot works Exeter - Plymouth in the morning and back in the evening?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I mean what I originally said, but this was just messroom talk.

So HSTs don’t have work from Monday after all? Everyone was saying they’d be on Plymouth Penzance captives.

 

[Ashley Hill]

So HSTs don’t have work from Monday after all? Everyone was saying they’d be on Plymouth Penzance captives.

I think what @RPI is saying is that as from today Exeter drivers have no booked work on 255s and by default no longer sign the traction. Bizarre but that’s the modern railway for you!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Which depot works Exeter - Plymouth in the morning and back in the evening?

In the morning ECS from Laira with a Plymouth, likewise in the evening it’s ECS back to Laira same as currently with those services (expect till TT change they are 80x)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think what @RPI is saying is that as from today Exeter drivers have no booked work on 255s and by default no longer sign the traction. Bizarre but that’s the modern railway for you!

What does that have to do with ASLEF? It was their mention that confused me. Why would they be unhappy about that, if they've been asking to stop working HSTs due to their safety concerns?

 

[Ashley Hill]

What does that have to do with ASLEF? It was their mention that confused me. Why would they be unhappy about that, if they've been asking to stop working HSTs due to their safety concerns?

I think it’s more a managerial thing. If there’s no booked work therefore there is no longer any need for the depot to sign the traction. It will bite them in the backside before long.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

What does that have to do with ASLEF? It was their mention that confused me. Why would they be unhappy about that, if they've been asking to stop working HSTs due to their safety concerns?

It’s to do with competency. If there’s no booked work, it’s not right for drivers to sign a traction if they have no work and subsequently not able to ever drive them. If they ever have to drive it say months later, they are higher risk of an incident due to unfamiliarity. The alternative is to provide a traction refresher day every so often so they’re released for the day to drive them but the company won’t do that as it costs money.

I think it’s more a managerial thing. If there’s no booked work therefore there is no longer any need for the depot to sign the traction. It will bite them in the backside before long.

Tbf it’s ASLEF imposing it too. Even at depots where traction and routes are Linked, when you go up to the next link and lose a traction/route, ASLEF insist that you scratch it off your card immediately.

 

[Ashley Hill]

It’s to do with competency. If there’s no booked work, it’s not right for drivers to sign a traction if they have no work and subsequently not able to ever drive them.

Whilst I agree with you to a degree there should be at least the six months before a driver HAS to take their name off the traction unless they feel the need. You can’t drive one on a Friday and no longer be competent the following Monday,that’s just daft.

 

[43096]

It’s to do with competency. If there’s no booked work, it’s not right for drivers to sign a traction if they have no work and subsequently not able to ever drive them. If they ever have to drive it say months later, they are higher risk of an incident due to unfamiliarity. The alternative is to provide a traction refresher day every so often so they’re released for the day to drive them but the company won’t do that as it costs money.

But if normal policy is, say, you have to drive a particular traction type within 6 months to remain competent, why not just leave it as that? If there's no booked work then competency will lapse naturally, but in the meantime there is contingency if it is needed. And, if we're honest, there will be people losing HST competency now who have been driving them for decades - I'd bet they could get on an HST in 12 months time and still know them better than the "boil in the bag" types at Par and elsewhere that are going to be driving.

This sort of nonsense is what gives the railway a bad name. Just making things more awkward for the sake of it is just utterly stupid.

 

[D6130]

Whilst I agree with you to a degree there should be at least the six months before a driver HAS to take their name off the traction unless they feel the need. You can’t drive one on a Friday and no longer be competent the following Monday,that’s just daft.

As a retired driver, I fully agree!

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Whilst I agree with you to a degree there should be at least the six months before a driver HAS to take their name off the traction unless they feel the need. You can’t drive one on a Friday and no longer be competent the following Monday,that’s just daft.

Oh yeah I get your point and agree. If you’re due to move up the link today, you don’t forget how to drive a class of train at midnight. My answer was more the official line by ASLEF. And to be fair, I think they would argue where do you draw the line. If you’re asked to drive a class of traction you haven’t driven in 2 weeks, that wouldn’t be a problem. But if you’re asked to drive one that you haven’t driven in 5 months, is that acceptable even though you technically sign it? Hence the need for traction refresh days but the company won’t be paying for that. There’s a bit of politics with that too as the union don’t want you stealing other links/depots work too.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Whilst I agree with you to a degree there should be at least the six months before a driver HAS to take their name off the traction unless they feel the need. You can’t drive one on a Friday and no longer be competent the following Monday,that’s just daft.

But that is the agreement ASLEF have!

 

[Ashley Hill]

But that is the agreement ASLEF have!

ASLEF can be short sighted. I see plenty of examples where they live in the past.