Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[Peter Sarf]

I would imagine that as battery technology improves perhaps the 755s might get one or two batrtry packs just for accelerating and braking. BUT there will then be the problem of what to do with the removed/surplus engines particularly from the 755/4s.

 

[Bald Rick]

BUT there will then be the problem of what to do with the removed/surplus engines particularly from the 755/4s.

The turnover of engines is often enough that they would be used as spares fairly quickly.

 

[trebor79]

Time will tell. Would be good but I can’t see anyone being interested enough to pay at the moment.

I don't know what TOCs pay to Network Rail for electricity from OHLE (or even how it is measured). But as diesel gets more expensive there is possibly an opportunity for an enterprising business to go to GA (and others) with a proposition:
"We will provide the battery packs to you FOC, and you will pay to us x pence per kWh of energy that goes into the batteries".
If x + the electricity cost from Network Rail minus savings on engine maintenance is less than the cost of diesel saved, then it would be a bit of a no brainer? Of course x needs to be pitched high enough to provide a return on investment to the company supplying the battery.

 

[AlexNL]

I don't know what TOCs pay to Network Rail for electricity from OHLE (or even how it is measured).

You can read more about that here
On-train metering - Network Rail

Not that long ago, one of Britain's freight operators put their electric loco fleet aside as the cost of traction electricity was higher than running a diesel loco.

 

[dk1]

You can read more about that here
On-train metering - Network Rail

Not that long ago, one of Britain's freight operators put their electric loco fleet aside as the cost of traction electricity was higher than running a diesel loco.

DB has taken 90s out of traffic in the last few weeks.

 

[TheWalrus]

Does anyone know what lines 755s are cleared to operate? Also which lines have they been on? I’m aware they have done London Liverpool Street to Norwich and Clacton but have they/can they do lines to Braintree, Southend, Southminster?

 

[ac6000cw]

Does anyone know what lines 755s are cleared to operate? Also which lines have they been on? I’m aware they have done London Liverpool Street to Norwich and Clacton but have they/can they do lines to Braintree, Southend, Southminster?

See this post - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...lass-755s-regional-trains.148431/post-5527100

From it:

These runs are for EMC compatibility testing and are required for the whole GA network hence previous FLIRT runs to Braintree/Southminster/Hertford East/King's Lynn.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

See this post - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...lass-755s-regional-trains.148431/post-5527100

From it:

Never been to either four in service though, of course. Yet.

 

[TheWalrus]

Never been to either four in service though, of course. Yet.

Thank you both for your responses- I’ve been looking for this information everywhere and never found it anywhere!

 

[RuddA]

Just spotted this on the Greater Anglia website. 755s can now change power source whilst on the move.

Greater Anglia’s fleet of regional trains set to save thousands of litres of diesel a year

www.greateranglia.co.uk

The bi-mode trains used by Greater Anglia on its regional routes are set to save thousands of litres of diesel a year, now that they are able to change power supply on the move.

The 38 trains, built by Stadler, which first started entering service in July 2019, run primarily on the company’s routes between Norwich and Great Yarmouth, Lowestoft, Sheringham and Cambridge/Stansted Airport, and between Ipswich and Cambridge, Felixstowe, Lowestoft and Peterborough, along with the Marks Tey - Sudbury branch, most of which are non-electrified.

However, the Ely North Junction to Cambridge/Stansted Airport section of the Norwich to Cambridge route and the Ipswich to Haughley Junction section of the Ipswich to Cambridge/Peterborough route are electrified and the whole of the Great Eastern Main Line, by which bi-mode trains may be travelling to/from some of the non-electrified routes, is also electrified. That means there are significant opportunities to take greater advantage of electric power, especially if you can do so at the first point you reach it, rather than only from the nearest station to the “changeover point”.

The bi-mode trains, known as ‘class 755s’ can run using either diesel or electricity from the overhead wires – but previously were restricted to changing over their power supply in station platforms.

Thanks to special zones that have recently been put in place on the network, drivers can press a button to allow the power supply to change between diesel and electric while on the move. This will save at least 91,000 litres of diesel a year, as well as stopping more than 240,000 kilograms of co2 being emitted – enough to power more than 30 homes for a year.

The power supply can now be changed on the move at four locations:

• Ely North Junction, on the line between Norwich and Cambridge
• Haughley Junction near Stowmarket, on the route between Ipswich and Cambridge/Peterborough
• Lakenham near Norwich heading towards Ipswich
• Marks Tey coming on and off the branch line for Sudbury for trains coming to/from the stabling and maintenance point at Colchester

Benjamin Parry, Greater Anglia’s Interim Engineering Director, said:

“The new way of working, known as ‘dynamic power changeover’, means that our drivers can change to electric power on the move as soon as it is available, rather than waiting to do so at a station.

“We predict the change should save more than 91,000 of litres of diesel per year and, saving over 240,000 kilograms in co2 emissions, be even greener too.

“Our trains have been gamechangers for our customers over the past four years since they started service and we hope that they will begin to have such a significant positive impact on the environment across Essex, Suffolk and Norfolk too.”

The Stadler-built trains are more environmentally friendly than the ones they replaced, which ran entirely on diesel, in a number of other ways.

They also come with regenerative braking, which delivers energy back into the electrical supply network, rather than wasting the energy through heat as is the case with conventional systems.

 

[dk1]

Just spotted this on the Greater Anglia website. 755s can now change power source whilst on the move.

Greater Anglia’s fleet of regional trains set to save thousands of litres of diesel a year

www.greateranglia.co.uk

Most of us do not use this option Ely to Ely North Junction as too open for driver error.

The Lakenham changeover is only used by ECS moves starting in the Low Level sidings or from platform 6.

Nearly all these have been in use for many many months now.

 

[EIKN]

The Stadler trains in greater Anglia , are by far superior to many of the current crop of new trains, especially the IET where other forums and magazines covering stories on them , make for a very dim view, with issues of poor interior build quality, over bright lighting compared for example to the mark 4 grand central coaches used in Wales on their Intercity , having not long been upgraded , and of course a big upgrade during the GNER era , and additional work when Virgin took them , they look fresh and modern to this day.
The IET's by comparison, are wearing badly , one article in a magazine , explained the seat covers had to be totally replaced on GWR sets , the other fixtures and fittings coming loose , squeaking annoyingly for passengers , often power outlets out of use , a real mish mash if issued , they actually did a photo of how a few small changes could really improve them, but that doesn't cover the seat issue, with the cushions in some cases already collapsing , not to mention, GWR sets run even further on some services than the LNER sets.
Add this to the cracks in the underneath it's fairbto say they have not been the best choice . Only EMT are fixing this with very pleasing interiors, far better seats , but inexplicably they are shorter , and at only 5 cars long , means reduced capacity over the excellent 5 and 7 car meridian 222's.
But they did at least listen to the passenger focus groups and the train operator. With lighting similar to the afore mentioned, ex grand central mark4's .
Now I mentioned this as there have been. Onsuch complaints with the greater Anglia stock ( however it says above that Anglia only operates diesel, when in fact they have run with class 86nor 87's( can't remember which ) but later the class 90's and a refurb of the mark3's gave rise to the advert that said Norwich in 90 ( the pledge to run electric trains to Norwich and I guess Stansted and kings Lynn etc in much faster times ) however much ilas the mark3 coaches where nice and smooth, they were not a patch on these ' new ' trains .
Although one thing I don't understand, is why the doors on the intercity versions are not at the inter city positions, and are pretty much identical to the 755 regional units. That said again the interior design is very impressive indeed.
For example TPE spent fortunes buying CAF units that will now transfer ( as has been officially said ) to Chiltern . But again poor build quality , and oddly the same cracking issues as the Hitachi units . And after that experience, the notion that Lner is buying CAF 397's or a variety of that unit to replace the still impressive 91's/mark4 sets, which still look fresh today .
But they would have been far better to use the stadler designs , perhaps moving the doors to the Intercity locations, to separate the passenger areas , sealed off from the cold , when the doors are open at a station .
That aside , they would have made fantastic replacements for TPE, LNER and upcoming open access operators , like the reborn (again) Wrexham /Shropshire services .
And also for Scotrail , for it's Intercity and regional fleet's.

Even the upcoming stalker (!class 99 is it ?) Locos are a fine design . I'd wager Stadler would have also produced superior ' mark 5 coaches for the new locos .
I know that GA are operating the sometimes troubled, Aventura units, which SWT I believe still have not used them in revenue service .
But that aside and even they are a big improvement over the terrible class 156 units etc that ran regional services .
I believe that in order to standardise and lower costs , of quality train fleet's, for other UK operators, Scotrail, more for Wales , TPE and Northern .
They would make for a fantastic long distance and regional fleet .
Recently I saw photos of the 755's running multiple from Liverpool Street to Norwich, showing how flexible these units are .
Yes there were teething issues at first , like the level crossings not detecting the trains , but those were rare .
Every other new fleet , made by Hitachi and CAF seems blighted with issues , poor ride , awful interiors , and lack of catering on GWR for which there is no good excuse for that .
The odd looking mark5's
I would love to see Stadler produce , mark 6 loco hauled stock as an option .
The very fact the TFW followed GA shows how well received the Stadler units are .
Perhaps in time GA might offer new routes to the north , or when the new Reinstated varsity line links up to the GA lines , that could open up to allow GA to link Anglia with the rest of the country.
Sorry for the long post but I'm a real fan of the type , and am impressed by this story of being able to switch while travelling between power sources .
Plus as I say if other operators buy them , then it would standardise UK fleet's , which surely would bring down costs .
I hope to see more of them especially in the north .

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Most of us do not use this option Ely to Ely North Junction as too open for driver error.

The Lakenham changeover is only used by ECS moves starting in the Low Level sidings or from platform 6.

Nearly all these have been in use for many many months now.

There's the changeover points, then the reality but I'm really pro the bimodes as the realistic way forward in the near term. I don't believe battery tech is at the point to power trains in service as a full day Norwich to Yarmouth etc would be really struggling on battery alone and charging at Norwich, especially in times of disruption or the previous driver forgot to pan up in the station.

As much as the government would like miracle power, electrification is still the best we have and bimodes to cover the gaps. Lots of infill after the mml and tpu will definitely be required though

 

[occone]

The Stadler trains in greater Anglia , are by far superior to many of the current crop of new trains, especially the IET

I fully agree - the (mostly) level boarding in particular means everyone wins.

They are such high quality trains and so pleasant to be on, it's a step change from the rest of the network.

More trains need to be built with level boarding as a priority - with an ageing population we will see more and more people who will struggle with the gigantic leaps for mankind between the 800s and the platform, especially when on a curve.

755s would be ideal for the XC routes between Stansted and Cardiff currently served by Turbostars.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Although one thing I don't understand, is why the doors on the intercity versions are not at the inter city positions, and are pretty much identical to the 755 regional units. That said again the interior design is very impressive indeed.

Why is end doors an intercity position?

If you want low floor entry you can’t have end doors, it isn’t physically possible with the bogies being at the ends of coaches.

Thats why the Stadler IC sets have mid coach door positions, same as the new Swiss Stadler Euro City EMUs.

 

[Clansman]

If you want low floor entry you can’t have end doors, it isn’t physically possible with the bogies being at the ends of coaches.

Thats why the Stadler IC sets have mid coach door positions, same as the new Swiss Stadler Euro City EMUs.

For starters, Talgo have proven this wrong.

Depends how you define 'end doors'.

'End' as in at the end of each carriage over the bogies, or 'end' as in without windows either side of it?

In the case of the latter, it is possible providing you are willing to compromise the space the bogies take up, or utilise it for other purposes (luggage racks, electrics, etc).

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Why is end doors an intercity position?

If you want low floor entry you can’t have end doors, it isn’t physically possible with the bogies being at the ends of coaches.

Thats why the Stadler IC sets have mid coach door positions, same as the new Swiss Stadler Euro City EMUs.

I get what's being said, the double doors in the middle do give the impression of commuter stock but the advantages do outweigh that plus they fit the 2 hour distance

 

[59CosG95]

Why is end doors an intercity position?

If you want low floor entry you can’t have end doors, it isn’t physically possible with the bogies being at the ends of coaches.

Thats why the Stadler IC sets have mid coach door positions, same as the new Swiss Stadler Euro City EMUs.

Must be a historical thing. Of course, door designs can, do and should change to suit the times we're in - lord knows how we'd try and risk-assess the 4-CIGs in 2024!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Must be a historical thing. Of course, door designs can, do and should change to suit the times we're in - lord knows how we'd try and risk-assess the 4-CIGs in 2024!

It’s not that historical however, for many years intercity coaches - mk1s and early mk2s had middle doors (as well as end doors), then in was standardised on end doors. Now it’s just gone full circle with middle doors.

Things change, I just don’t get this fascination to be ‘intercity’ it has to have end doors, have people forgotten middle doors were standard on IC services in decades gone by?

 

[Mikey C]

It’s not that historical however, for many years intercity coaches - mk1s and early mk2s had middle doors (as well as end doors), then in was standardised on end doors. Now it’s just gone full circle with middle doors.

Things change, I just don’t get this fascination to be ‘intercity’ it has to have end doors, have people forgotten middle doors were standard on IC services in decades gone by?

Historically, didn't long distance stock have compartments though, so there was never a door from outside straight into the passenger area?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Historically, didn't long distance stock have compartments though, so there was never a door from outside straight into the passenger area?

Not in mk1/early 2 TSOs.
The SKs did however.

 

[dk1]

It’s not that historical however, for many years intercity coaches - mk1s and early mk2s had middle doors (as well as end doors), then in was standardised on end doors. Now it’s just gone full circle with middle doors.

Things change, I just don’t get this fascination to be ‘intercity’ it has to have end doors, have people forgotten middle doors were standard on IC services in decades gone by?

Me neither, very strange Must be a mentally installed thing. No chance of level boarding if we run with that way of thinking with this fleet.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Me neither, very strange Must be a mentally installed thing. No chance of level boarding if we run with that way of thinking with this fleet.

There seems a brigade on here who feel for a train to be IC it has to have a buffet, end doors, compartments and be loco hauled!

 

[dk1]

There seems a brigade on here who feel for a train to be IC it has to have a buffet, end doors, compartments and be loco hauled!

Stuck in the past maybe?

I go back a decent way into BR but times change and things move on.

 

[occone]

As I understand it, the end door design was originally intended to keep noise and breeze out of the saloon (which had internal doors) whereas commuter door position was designed for best passenger flow, but times have moved on...
The noise proofing of trains now is totally different to the draughty slam door trains of years gone by. FLIRTs are extremely comfortable, the doors close by themselves fairly quickly and no breeze makes it in even when going fast.

They are quiet comfortable trains and I think they get the balance absolutely perfect of comfort and the ability for people to circulate as needed.

 

[dk1]

As I understand it, the end door design was originally intended to keep noise and breeze out of the saloon (which had internal doors) whereas commuter door position was designed for best passenger flow, but times have moved on...
The noise proofing of trains now is totally different to the draughty slam door trains of years gone by. FLIRTs are extremely comfortable, the doors close by themselves fairly quickly and no breeze makes it in even when going fast.

They are quiet comfortable trains and I think they get the balance absolutely perfect of comfort and the ability for people to circulate as needed.

And on top of that the 745 fleet has additional (unnecessary in my opinion) internal doors too. Most have been isolated by the software as default since Covid but can be overridden much to the annoyance of catering staff.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Stuck in the past maybe?

I go back a decent way into BR but times change and things move on.

I like the stadlers but I do get it, the few times I got the train from Norwich to Milton Keynes, the ambiance on the pendolino is different, end doors, toilets at the end and cabin doors shut compared to the 745s. Generally I think one of the things is that the internal door are generally open, the other impression is that the seat layout (don't ask me why I get this impression) is more squeeze every seat possible in which gives the impression of commuter stock, it might also be the double doors and level entry and the fact each coach isn't an individual compartment in the same way.

 

[occone]

And on top of that the 745 fleet has additional (unnecessary in my opinion) internal doors too. Most have been isolated by the software as default since Covid but can be overridden much to the annoyance of catering staff.

So they do - I had forgotten that. The first time I walked through one of those doors I thought I had entered first class, but as I kept walking I realised it was just standard class but the standard was exceedingly good.

 

[EIKN]

I wasn't meaning to sound stuck in the past , also I'm very interested in railways more especially reopening lines which is becoming more vital as it's clear that ever widening roads doesnt work for long , plus with the fossil.fuel bans, more electric cars , where they wpukd probably teplace fuel.duty with higher electricity bills if using home charging ( no government is going to allow us ' tax free travel) so railways will be more popular and especially to get freight off the roads and onto rails , but I digress point is with new or reopened lines folk will want comfortable rolling stock , I haven't had the pleasure of trying the Stadler units, but when I mentioned the end doors I had in mind for example the class 158 , which had sealed vestibules, keeping out the cold in winter or cooler in summer. ( And quieter ) as well as the mark 4's as an example , I'm not suggesting we back track and use all loco hauled ( although there must be some plans for this as the new class 93 and 99 Tri mode locos both support passenger use !.
I can't see the Caf mark5's being bought so maybe Stadler could design the mark 6 , that or Hitachi find a way of the intermediate vehicles to be used as loco hauled stock. But again I'm not an expert on trains , I am also interested in the types of trains in service .
And as a few have said when the mark2's had middle doors they had compartments where you could close the door which was very comfortable.
But I do take the point that the new Stadler stock uses level boarding , something that was missing from the types I referred to.also it was mainly a question as to why they were not built in the same way previous generation stock had been.
It's good to hear that the arrangement they built isn't affected too much .
One other question is are the corridor connections between coaches open all the way through, just the photos seem to show they are ?.
Not sure if this was on the 755 regional units, ( also is there really much difference between the two ) , they look the same outside , and the interior I saw looked like someone else had said to be like first class.
So another plus point for Stadler .
They do seem to be a good design , and I guess the various train companies would benefit from a standard design around the country , perhaps making it cheaper to run, rather than train drivers and engineers on a variety of designs .
Like the Caf Civity designs, which do look like a modern take on a class 158. They are apparently not bad , although a friend told me the 195 she travelled on had very hard uncomfortable seats .
Hence northern might be better as they seek new stock to go with the Stadler units . The only oddity is a bit of a throwback to the apt with the power car being in the middle of a unit .
Anyway despite my not having had the pleasure, in terms of design I do like the two Stadler designs Anglia use . Perhaps not as sleek as the Hitachi , they are so far ahead of the horrible old 156's for example .
Over all they seem to be very successful, ideally though to keep engineering jobs in the UK , Alstom would be wise to bid for any future Stadler fleets if ordered , as the current rail magazines are painting a bleak outlook for the coming years , as both Scotrail and northern have yet to select a train type to replace their entire fleet .
Which again the Stadler units are ideal .
And god knows if any of you have seen some of the awful units used on the reopened Airdrie Bathgate line , you'd be sympathetic as they are truly awful .
So I'd welcome seeing 745/ 755 units in use .
One final question does anyone have any photos of the different interiors like a side by side view of each type to show the differences of the interiors ? Oh and one other my apologies ( I suffer brainfig due to severe health issues hence I tend to write longer to try explain what I'm meaning or asking about ) but the actual numbers on most units in the UK are usually on the front or side of the cab , but I see on the stadlers it's the last three numbers ? Which given they look alike can be confusing

 

[InTheEastMids]

Things change, I just don’t get this fascination to be ‘intercity’ it has to have end doors, have people forgotten middle doors were standard on IC services in decades gone by?

For instance, the Swiss Giruno trains that do Zurich-Milan services have the doors in the middle of the car, not at the ends. It would be quite brave to assert that they're not suitable for intercity services...