I was under the impression that if a P.A system has been installed, then is HAS to be used, be it manual or automated announcements. Birmingham New Street does neither of these, the train arrives into the platform completely unannounced. Particularly for long distance services, or services which have had a revised calling pattern, it's just daft.Is it laid out anywhere, eg rail accessibility law, the bare minimum requirements for announcements that must be made?
My wife, who is blind, recently hit a PIS issue in that it announced 'the train will shortly arrive at Middlesbrough', and so she got up ready, only to then find the train stationary with no further announcements so she was uncertain whether the train was at the station or held at signals. . It was only after several minutes the PIS then said 'we have now arrived at Middlesbrough'. As the train must actually have been there all that time she then had a panic to quickly find the door controls, worried that it was about to depart. I have similarly found PIS to be late announcing arrivals at various stations. Why does it keep happening?Here's a question: why does this nonsense just keep happening? Are the PIS on these trains just very difficult to configure correctly? Are the TMs and Drivers not given instructions on how to set them up? Or is there some kind of defect?
You often find similar issues with stations and train PIS where incorrect information is given because they're misconfigured - and I do wonder whether it's very hard to configure them properly, or if it's just that people don't bother.
My wife, who is blind, recently hit a PIS issue in that it announced 'the train will shortly arrive at Middlesbrough', and so she got up ready, only to then find the train stationary with no further announcements so she was uncertain whether the train was at the station or held at signals. . It was only after several minutes the PIS then said 'we have now arrived at Middlesbrough'. As the train must actually have been there all that time she then had a panic to quickly find the door controls, worried that it was about to depart. I have similarly found PIS to be late announcing arrivals at various stations. Why does it keep happening?
I think uncertainty comes when you know that the 'we will shortly be arriving at...' should be followed up with 'we have arrived at...', but the latter isn't forthcoming.Because sometimes if you’re held at a red just outside the station the system will announce “we will shortly be arriving at…”, due to GPS location, but the train won’t actually yet have a path into the station.
It’s obvious when doors have been released, due to the loud PRM compliant beeps, so this isn’t generally an issue.
I can't speak for everywhere but I am very familiar with the Northern auto-announcements on that bit of line and I can't recall, off hand, ever seeing a situation in which the train would announce "We will shortly be arriving at..." whilst at a stand in the station. It is possible, approaching from the Redcar direction, for the announcement to play and then the train to get held a red signal outside the station as the timing of the announcement is before the final protecting signal. If you go straight in it's about right (I'd argue a little early, as it triggers as you go past the football ground) but if there is a red you can get caught out. I've learned not to stand up until after we pass the signal! I think from the other (i.e. Thornaby) direction the same thing can happen. The "This is [STATION]" announcement only plays once the doors are released by the conductor. So I'd be surprised if the train didn't move off between coming to a stand and the announcement then playing to indicate the train had arrived.I think uncertainty comes when you know that the 'we will shortly be arriving at...' should be followed up with 'we have arrived at...', but the latter isn't forthcoming.
I don't think it's just a pathing issue. I have been on several trains when the 'we have arrived at...' announcement has been a couple of minutes after the actual arrival.
The issue arose on a TPE service. I do not know whether TPE's PIS is configured differently to Northern?I can't speak for everywhere but I am very familiar with the Northern auto-announcements on that bit of line and I can't recall, off hand, ever seeing a situation in which the train would announce "We will shortly be arriving at..." whilst at a stand in the station. It is possible, approaching from the Redcar direction, for the announcement to play and then the train to get held a red signal outside the station as the timing of the announcement is before the final protecting signal. If you go straight in it's about right (I'd argue a little early, as it triggers as you go past the football ground) but if there is a red you can get caught out. I've learned not to stand up until after we pass the signal! I think from the other (i.e. Thornaby) direction the same thing can happen. The "This is [STATION]" announcement only plays once the doors are released by the conductor. So I'd be surprised if the train didn't move off between coming to a stand and the announcement then playing to indicate the train had arrived.
That being said I do think train crew could be a bit more alive to the issue of being held outside a station waiting for a platform after the automated system has said "We will shortly be arriving at..." just to provide some reassurance to all passenger be they sighted, blind, nervous, or just unfamiliar with the railway that the train has come to a stand for a reason and will be on the move again shortly!
Oh yes totally different systems to my knowledge. I still cannot recall an instance where a TPE service has annouced "We will shortly be arriving at..." as the train is sat in a platform but my sample size is much smaller (I commute to Middlesbrough on Northern most days hence the familiarity ).The issue arose on a TPE service. I do not know whether TPE's PIS is configured differently to Northern?
I think in some places you can tell that some thought has gone into avoiding this issue. For example, arriving into Hartford, the auto announcement goes off immediately after passing the points after Acton Bridge. So only when there's no more chance of a late-running Avanti holding it up.Because sometimes if you’re held at a red just outside the station the system will announce “we will shortly be arriving at…”, due to GPS location, but the train won’t actually yet have a path into the station.
Was there no beeping sound when the doors were released? I think the 507s are the only trains that don't have it but all doors open, on the platform side, at every station so the sound of the doors should be audible. I must say that the PIS is often wrong, which must be unhelpful for people that rely on them. For example, on a 777, it said "We are now at Bache, the next stop is Capenhurst." In fact, the train ran non stop to Hooton. Meanwhile, the screens stated "we are now approaching Bache" all the way to Hooton.My wife, who is blind, recently hit a PIS issue in that it announced 'the train will shortly arrive at Middlesbrough', and so she got up ready, only to then find the train stationary with no further announcements so she was uncertain whether the train was at the station or held at signals. . It was only after several minutes the PIS then said 'we have now arrived at Middlesbrough'. As the train must actually have been there all that time she then had a panic to quickly find the door controls, worried that it was about to depart. I have similarly found PIS to be late announcing arrivals at various stations. Why does it keep happening?
Yes, and when the announcements are muffled or very quiet and go in and out because the speaker phone in the cab is broken also irritates me.Staff on full form against this morning. They seemed to have turned off the automatic announcements in favour of constant, loud manual announcements.
Are the trains that you are referring to exclusively for commuters or are other passengers allowed on them?On my train home today I felt a bit more relaxed than usual, the announcements weren't working (until just before I got off)!
I could just listen to the sounds of the train without having to deal with "If you see something suspicious..."
There's definitely positives to having announcements, but I'd expect commuters to at least know where they are.
It was just general commuting time, I'd assume a majority of the passengers were commuters.Are the trains that you are referring to exclusively for commuters or are other passengers allowed on them?
Tough on any non-regulars or first-timers. Commuters aren't the most informative of passengers at the best of times.It was just general commuting time, I'd assume a majority of the passengers were commuters.
I find that one reassuring, it means I don't have to think about contacting my co-workers to say I will be late into the office since we'll be moving again shortly. It is unusually long stops without any explanation or even speculation that I find annoying, uncertainty is bad.They even have an announcement when the train is waiting at a red signal: "This train is held at a red signal, and will be moving shortly"
My observation of the lack of spatial awareness of people, in the south-east of England at least, makes me think the government are justified in having that psyche.Someone in my locked thread asked in annoyance why I and so many others find announcements so annoying. I didn’t get a chance to reply before it was locked, but for me, apart from what I said in the first paragraph, I think it’s because it shows a snapshot into the psyche of the governance of this country; people are there to be “managed” not served in this best and effective way possible, everything is inherently dangerously unsafe and people cannot be trusted to keep themselves safe (although I cynically believe it’s more so to limit financial damages from the increasingly virulent use of legal warfare over the past 30 years), plus I think it highlights the general aimlessness of work culture in Britain; something has to be done, even if it has no real value, just because doing something is always better than doing nothing - even when there’s no real need for action. I’m sure many have encountered such practices at their own workplaces.
I find that one reassuring, it means I don't have to think about contacting my co-workers to say I will be late into the office since we'll be moving again shortly. It is unusually long stops without any explanation or even speculation that I find annoying, uncertainty is bad.
My observation of the lack of spatial awareness of people, in the south-east of England at least, makes me think the government are justified in having that psyche.
Can't help but have sympathy for that bloke. Imagine having to listen to every stop between Birmingham and Plymouth announced 3 times.I had a discussion with the station manager of Birmingham New Street and he said he’d silent all announcements if he could…
Definitely something a bit suspect happening here me thinks.
Moreover, if there is no tactile paving, how does an announcement about keeping away from the platform edge help you know where it is?Heard another completely idiotic announcement at Wakefield Kirkgate just now. At the end of an announcement about the station having no tactile paving the announcer says "Please keep back from the platform edge at all times".
Er....how do you get on a train then?
Try standing on the platform at Truro, as you wait for the Penzance to Edinburgh train! A real geography lesson.Can't help but have sympathy for that bloke. Imagine having to listen to every stop between Birmingham and Plymouth announced 3 times.
I had a similar experience yesterday evening. The Kingston loop service was at Hampton Wick, but the train's tannoy announced that the train was at Kingston, the next stop. The guard didn't correct this erroneous announcement. A blind or poorly-sighted passenger who alighted on the strength of the announcement could have been seriously inconvenienced. The train was two 450s, which are rarely used on this service; also Kingston is just a short distance from Hampton Wick: could these factors have had any connection to the erroneous announcement?My wife, who is blind, recently hit a PIS issue in that it announced 'the train will shortly arrive at Middlesbrough', and so she got up ready, only to then find the train stationary with no further announcements so she was uncertain whether the train was at the station or held at signals. . It was only after several minutes the PIS then said 'we have now arrived at Middlesbrough'. As the train must actually have been there all that time she then had a panic to quickly find the door controls, worried that it was about to depart. I have similarly found PIS to be late announcing arrivals at various stations. Why does it keep happening?