So many announcements, so few people taking them on board

[Recessio]

So in the same thread we have too many announcements and not enough announcements!

Is it laid out anywhere, eg rail accessibility law, the bare minimum requirements for announcements that must be made?

 

[londonmidland]

Is it laid out anywhere, eg rail accessibility law, the bare minimum requirements for announcements that must be made?

I was under the impression that if a P.A system has been installed, then is HAS to be used, be it manual or automated announcements. Birmingham New Street does neither of these, the train arrives into the platform completely unannounced. Particularly for long distance services, or services which have had a revised calling pattern, it's just daft.

The whole 'noise pollution' excuse I don't buy. The station has had zoned announcements since the early 2000s, so announcements aren't playing constantly across all 12 platforms. They only play on the relevant platform.

The proper way to solve this issue is to reduce the announcements down to one announcement per train, as it is arriving into the platform. Previously, there could be up to 3 announcements per train, which is excessive.

 

[TUC]

Here's a question: why does this nonsense just keep happening? Are the PIS on these trains just very difficult to configure correctly? Are the TMs and Drivers not given instructions on how to set them up? Or is there some kind of defect?

You often find similar issues with stations and train PIS where incorrect information is given because they're misconfigured - and I do wonder whether it's very hard to configure them properly, or if it's just that people don't bother.

My wife, who is blind, recently hit a PIS issue in that it announced 'the train will shortly arrive at Middlesbrough', and so she got up ready, only to then find the train stationary with no further announcements so she was uncertain whether the train was at the station or held at signals. . It was only after several minutes the PIS then said 'we have now arrived at Middlesbrough'. As the train must actually have been there all that time she then had a panic to quickly find the door controls, worried that it was about to depart. I have similarly found PIS to be late announcing arrivals at various stations. Why does it keep happening?

 

[43066]

My wife, who is blind, recently hit a PIS issue in that it announced 'the train will shortly arrive at Middlesbrough', and so she got up ready, only to then find the train stationary with no further announcements so she was uncertain whether the train was at the station or held at signals. . It was only after several minutes the PIS then said 'we have now arrived at Middlesbrough'. As the train must actually have been there all that time she then had a panic to quickly find the door controls, worried that it was about to depart. I have similarly found PIS to be late announcing arrivals at various stations. Why does it keep happening?

Because sometimes if you’re held at a red just outside the station the system will announce “we will shortly be arriving at…”, due to GPS location, but the train won’t actually yet have a path into the station.

It’s obvious when doors have been released, due to the loud PRM compliant beeps, so this isn’t generally an issue.

 

[TUC]

Because sometimes if you’re held at a red just outside the station the system will announce “we will shortly be arriving at…”, due to GPS location, but the train won’t actually yet have a path into the station.

It’s obvious when doors have been released, due to the loud PRM compliant beeps, so this isn’t generally an issue.

I think uncertainty comes when you know that the 'we will shortly be arriving at...' should be followed up with 'we have arrived at...', but the latter isn't forthcoming.

I don't think it's just a pathing issue. I have been on several trains when the 'we have arrived at...' announcement has been a couple of minutes after the actual arrival.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think uncertainty comes when you know that the 'we will shortly be arriving at...' should be followed up with 'we have arrived at...', but the latter isn't forthcoming.

I don't think it's just a pathing issue. I have been on several trains when the 'we have arrived at...' announcement has been a couple of minutes after the actual arrival.

I can't speak for everywhere but I am very familiar with the Northern auto-announcements on that bit of line and I can't recall, off hand, ever seeing a situation in which the train would announce "We will shortly be arriving at..." whilst at a stand in the station. It is possible, approaching from the Redcar direction, for the announcement to play and then the train to get held a red signal outside the station as the timing of the announcement is before the final protecting signal. If you go straight in it's about right (I'd argue a little early, as it triggers as you go past the football ground) but if there is a red you can get caught out. I've learned not to stand up until after we pass the signal! I think from the other (i.e. Thornaby) direction the same thing can happen. The "This is [STATION]" announcement only plays once the doors are released by the conductor. So I'd be surprised if the train didn't move off between coming to a stand and the announcement then playing to indicate the train had arrived.

That being said I do think train crew could be a bit more alive to the issue of being held outside a station waiting for a platform after the automated system has said "We will shortly be arriving at..." just to provide some reassurance to all passenger be they sighted, blind, nervous, or just unfamiliar with the railway that the train has come to a stand for a reason and will be on the move again shortly!

 

[TUC]

I can't speak for everywhere but I am very familiar with the Northern auto-announcements on that bit of line and I can't recall, off hand, ever seeing a situation in which the train would announce "We will shortly be arriving at..." whilst at a stand in the station. It is possible, approaching from the Redcar direction, for the announcement to play and then the train to get held a red signal outside the station as the timing of the announcement is before the final protecting signal. If you go straight in it's about right (I'd argue a little early, as it triggers as you go past the football ground) but if there is a red you can get caught out. I've learned not to stand up until after we pass the signal! I think from the other (i.e. Thornaby) direction the same thing can happen. The "This is [STATION]" announcement only plays once the doors are released by the conductor. So I'd be surprised if the train didn't move off between coming to a stand and the announcement then playing to indicate the train had arrived.

That being said I do think train crew could be a bit more alive to the issue of being held outside a station waiting for a platform after the automated system has said "We will shortly be arriving at..." just to provide some reassurance to all passenger be they sighted, blind, nervous, or just unfamiliar with the railway that the train has come to a stand for a reason and will be on the move again shortly!

The issue arose on a TPE service. I do not know whether TPE's PIS is configured differently to Northern?

 

[ainsworth74]

The issue arose on a TPE service. I do not know whether TPE's PIS is configured differently to Northern?

Oh yes totally different systems to my knowledge. I still cannot recall an instance where a TPE service has annouced "We will shortly be arriving at..." as the train is sat in a platform but my sample size is much smaller (I commute to Middlesbrough on Northern most days hence the familiarity ).

 

[setdown]

Because sometimes if you’re held at a red just outside the station the system will announce “we will shortly be arriving at…”, due to GPS location, but the train won’t actually yet have a path into the station.

I think in some places you can tell that some thought has gone into avoiding this issue. For example, arriving into Hartford, the auto announcement goes off immediately after passing the points after Acton Bridge. So only when there's no more chance of a late-running Avanti holding it up.
There's other stations I've noticed this at, but this is the one that jumps out. The timing is too precise for it to be coincidence.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Well we can either moan amongst ourselves or we can contact the train companies to ask them what they're actually doing about excessive announcements. To this end I have sent the following email to my local TOCs.

"I regularly travel on your trains and find my journeys spoiled by the constant and excessive auto announcements on board. I’m sure you know the ones I mean;

• "Welcome aboard this <TOC> service to...calling at..."
• "Please take some time to read the safety notices..."
• "Smoking and vaping are not permitted on this train"
• "You need a valid ticket to travel or you may have to pay a penalty fare"
• "Please remain vigilant...see it say it sort it"

Sometimes these announcements are repeated after every station stop and on some occasions the train conductor makes a manual announcement repeating what we’ve all already just heard! As a consequence of this, like most passengers I am forced to wear headphones if I want a pleasant journey which of course means I could miss a rare announcement that might be important, such as a delay or cancellation on the train. Unless there is any disruption, surely all a passenger needs to know is where the train is going, where it's calling and what time it will get there, so all the above announcements are superfluous?

In January 2022 the then Transport Minister Grant Shapps said “I’m calling for a bonfire of the banalities to bring down the number of announcements passengers are forced to sit through and make their journey that little bit more peaceful.” As this hasn’t yet happened I would therefore like to know two things;

• Are you monitoring the effectiveness of these announcements - do you conduct surveys as to whether anyone is actually listening to these announcements and whether they change their behaviour as a consequence?
• What your company is doing about reducing the amount of unnecessary and irritating announcements both on your trains and at your stations?"

I'm not expecting amazing results but it will be interesting to see how they justify themselves.

 

[Bikeman78]

My wife, who is blind, recently hit a PIS issue in that it announced 'the train will shortly arrive at Middlesbrough', and so she got up ready, only to then find the train stationary with no further announcements so she was uncertain whether the train was at the station or held at signals. . It was only after several minutes the PIS then said 'we have now arrived at Middlesbrough'. As the train must actually have been there all that time she then had a panic to quickly find the door controls, worried that it was about to depart. I have similarly found PIS to be late announcing arrivals at various stations. Why does it keep happening?

Was there no beeping sound when the doors were released? I think the 507s are the only trains that don't have it but all doors open, on the platform side, at every station so the sound of the doors should be audible. I must say that the PIS is often wrong, which must be unhelpful for people that rely on them. For example, on a 777, it said "We are now at Bache, the next stop is Capenhurst." In fact, the train ran non stop to Hooton. Meanwhile, the screens stated "we are now approaching Bache" all the way to Hooton.

 

[RailWonderer]

Staff on full form against this morning. They seemed to have turned off the automatic announcements in favour of constant, loud manual announcements.

Yes, and when the announcements are muffled or very quiet and go in and out because the speaker phone in the cab is broken also irritates me.

 

[MaxTheCat]

Have only been in UK a while after living on the Continent but am amazed and bemused by all the endless announcements on UK trains. They even have an announcement when the train is waiting at a red signal: "This train is held at a red signal, and will be moving shortly". And when the train is starting out: "Health and Safety information is displayed in every carriage" - as if its an airliner.

Plus all the endless "Oyster and contactless cards are not valid beyond..." the "see it say it sorted" that you are endlessly bombarded with... and countless other stuff as well.

If you bombard people with too many announcements it has the opposite effect. People just tune out as they cant stand it anymore. There is a limit to how much of this people can bear.

It's so bad I have often resorted to either wearing headphone earbuds or noise-blocking earplugs.

It's manic.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I’ve already complained about the constant manual announcements made at platforms 5&6 at Clapham Junction (although that thread has now been locked) which are still ongoing. What makes them and other onboard train announcements so annoying is that there seems to be an obligation to say more than you have to when you just because you have the power to do so.

Someone in my locked thread asked in annoyance why I and so many others find announcements so annoying. I didn’t get a chance to reply before it was locked, but for me, apart from what I said in the first paragraph, I think it’s because it shows a snapshot into the psyche of the governance of this country; people are there to be “managed” not served in this best and effective way possible, everything is inherently dangerously unsafe and people cannot be trusted to keep themselves safe (although I cynically believe it’s more so to limit financial damages from the increasingly virulent use of legal warfare over the past 30 years), plus I think it highlights the general aimlessness of work culture in Britain; something has to be done, even if it has no real value, just because doing something is always better than doing nothing - even when there’s no real need for action. I’m sure many have encountered such practices at their own workplaces.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

On my train home today I felt a bit more relaxed than usual, the announcements weren't working (until just before I got off)!

I could just listen to the sounds of the train without having to deal with "If you see something suspicious..."

There's definitely positives to having announcements, but I'd expect commuters to at least know where they are.

 

[AM9]

On my train home today I felt a bit more relaxed than usual, the announcements weren't working (until just before I got off)!

I could just listen to the sounds of the train without having to deal with "If you see something suspicious..."

There's definitely positives to having announcements, but I'd expect commuters to at least know where they are.

Are the trains that you are referring to exclusively for commuters or are other passengers allowed on them?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Are the trains that you are referring to exclusively for commuters or are other passengers allowed on them?

It was just general commuting time, I'd assume a majority of the passengers were commuters.

 

[AM9]

It was just general commuting time, I'd assume a majority of the passengers were commuters.

Tough on any non-regulars or first-timers. Commuters aren't the most informative of passengers at the best of times.

 

[Vexed]

Personally I like waiting at an empty St Albans in the early morning when the station announcements are silenced. I would assume it's for local residents but the only houses near the station are at the very north end. I suppose sound travels well when it's quiet. Remember the station gets an hourly overnight service six nights a week.

However I do think that the majority of the time announcements are very important. There are too frequent on train though.

 

[al78]

They even have an announcement when the train is waiting at a red signal: "This train is held at a red signal, and will be moving shortly"

I find that one reassuring, it means I don't have to think about contacting my co-workers to say I will be late into the office since we'll be moving again shortly. It is unusually long stops without any explanation or even speculation that I find annoying, uncertainty is bad.

Someone in my locked thread asked in annoyance why I and so many others find announcements so annoying. I didn’t get a chance to reply before it was locked, but for me, apart from what I said in the first paragraph, I think it’s because it shows a snapshot into the psyche of the governance of this country; people are there to be “managed” not served in this best and effective way possible, everything is inherently dangerously unsafe and people cannot be trusted to keep themselves safe (although I cynically believe it’s more so to limit financial damages from the increasingly virulent use of legal warfare over the past 30 years), plus I think it highlights the general aimlessness of work culture in Britain; something has to be done, even if it has no real value, just because doing something is always better than doing nothing - even when there’s no real need for action. I’m sure many have encountered such practices at their own workplaces.

My observation of the lack of spatial awareness of people, in the south-east of England at least, makes me think the government are justified in having that psyche.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I find that one reassuring, it means I don't have to think about contacting my co-workers to say I will be late into the office since we'll be moving again shortly. It is unusually long stops without any explanation or even speculation that I find annoying, uncertainty is bad.


My observation of the lack of spatial awareness of people, in the south-east of England at least, makes me think the government are justified in having that psyche.

I think that perhaps, more so, it’s due to increase in managerial positions over the years, giving the need to find and ultimately invent something to control to use the power vested within your potentially unnecessary position

 

[gabrielhj07]

I had a discussion with the station manager of Birmingham New Street and he said he’d silent all announcements if he could…

Definitely something a bit suspect happening here me thinks.

Can't help but have sympathy for that bloke. Imagine having to listen to every stop between Birmingham and Plymouth announced 3 times.

 

[johntea]

Congratulations go to Northern for recording a special bonus strike information announcement

...however I don't need to know about a strike happening on the 1st March whilst travelling on the 5th March!

 

[davidknibb]

Just returned from Algeria which included a 7 hour train journey.
No announcements at all for the entire journey.
Bliss.
On the other hand we were 2 hours late - not so blissful.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Heard another completely idiotic announcement at Wakefield Kirkgate just now. At the end of an announcement about the station having no tactile paving the announcer says "Please keep back from the platform edge at all times".

Er....how do you get on a train then?

 

[Bikeman78]

At stations, GTR announces all the stations with defective lifts and advises speaking to a member of staff for further information. Not sure what I'm meant to to with that information as I board a DOO train. I hope the info is available online. If I were depending on using a lift, I'd want to know about problems before I got to the station.

 

[TUC]

Heard another completely idiotic announcement at Wakefield Kirkgate just now. At the end of an announcement about the station having no tactile paving the announcer says "Please keep back from the platform edge at all times".

Er....how do you get on a train then?

Moreover, if there is no tactile paving, how does an announcement about keeping away from the platform edge help you know where it is?

 

[nanstallon]

Can't help but have sympathy for that bloke. Imagine having to listen to every stop between Birmingham and Plymouth announced 3 times.

Try standing on the platform at Truro, as you wait for the Penzance to Edinburgh train! A real geography lesson.

 

[Dr_Paul]

My wife, who is blind, recently hit a PIS issue in that it announced 'the train will shortly arrive at Middlesbrough', and so she got up ready, only to then find the train stationary with no further announcements so she was uncertain whether the train was at the station or held at signals. . It was only after several minutes the PIS then said 'we have now arrived at Middlesbrough'. As the train must actually have been there all that time she then had a panic to quickly find the door controls, worried that it was about to depart. I have similarly found PIS to be late announcing arrivals at various stations. Why does it keep happening?

I had a similar experience yesterday evening. The Kingston loop service was at Hampton Wick, but the train's tannoy announced that the train was at Kingston, the next stop. The guard didn't correct this erroneous announcement. A blind or poorly-sighted passenger who alighted on the strength of the announcement could have been seriously inconvenienced. The train was two 450s, which are rarely used on this service; also Kingston is just a short distance from Hampton Wick: could these factors have had any connection to the erroneous announcement?

 

[Stampy]

Probably slightly off-topic....

I caught the 1900 Greater Anglia service from Ely to Peterborough on Saturday...

Despite 2 station announcements AND at least 4 ON TRAIN announcements that this was NOT the Cambridge train and this train was going to Peterborough.......

There were people on the train moaning when we headed North, and started moaning that they "weren't told about it"...

They had to get off at March and wait for a connecting train back...