Keir Starmer and the Labour Party

[43096]

This is him listening too much to Mandleson and Blair, and is almost paranoid.

That‘ll be Blair, the only Labour leader to win a General Election in the last 45 years.

 

[DarloRich]

An own goal for labour last night that has allowed Galloway back into Parliament. The man is trouble. He will be trouble for Labour because:

• the crank left will gather around him and use social media to share his utterings & lap up his populist rhetoric ( and he has considerable rhetorical powers)
• the free Palestine movement will be drawn to him like flies round excrement
• The crank right and Gebeebies will now double down on thier ranting about Islamists and use this election as "evidence" for thier Islamist take over nonsense.

Labour had no choice to suspend thier support for thier candidate in light of his comments but why did they not undertake more "due diligence?"

That‘ll be Blair, the only Labour leader to win a General Election in the last 45 years.

Quite! ( also he missed Campbell off the new labour bogeyman list!)

pushing of radical woke social ideologies that is the norm from all of the big parties

what does this mean? do you have an example you could share to illustrate your point?

Labour as a whole really does have to wake up to what the Israeli government is doing in Gaza and call it out for what it so obviously is. Starmer needn't obsess that somehow Corbyn and co. will get the hearts and minds of a significant number of Labour voters again this side of a General Election. This is him listening too much to Mandleson and Blair, and is almost paranoid.

What should Labour be doing? Most people don't really care about Palestine beyond the obvious horrors of women and children being killed. Labour are calling for a proper ceasefire. If that happens the heat goes out of this issue domestically. The political future of that area isn't a big issue for people in the UK.

When Galloway stood (and failed to win) in Batley & Spen a few years back in the by-election prompted by Tracy Brabin becoming West Yorkshire Mayor, he showed himself to be all about, well, himself.

There are already social media posts from crankists attributing this victory to all manner of things about anti war parties, rejecting mainstream politics and social causes, expect the the obvious reason: Labour withdrew from the election!

It will be all about him but hopefully we will only have to suffer his nonsense for a short while

 

[jfollows]

An own goal for labour last night that has allowed Galloway back into Parliament.

I do pretty much agree with all you've said here, I won't re-quote it!

It's Labour's fault that Galloway got in, and it's their fault because they can't manage the party properly, going back to Corbyn who couldn't manage anything and not recovering from that, although I don't hold Starmer totally responsible.

For me it's a second reason not to vote Labour in the election, although my loathing for the Conservatives and my dislike for my MP will probably over-ride this when it comes to putting a tick in a box.

You're right about Palestine, I'm sure, most people don't care in contrast to the cost of the shopping or other local issues, for which they blame the Conservatives in the main. I strongly dislike Netanyahu but I don't think I'm either anti-Semitic or pro-Palestinian.

I think Labour has to stand for something apart from "not being the Conservatives" and decide what that is. The £28bn green non-pledge, for example, is a disaster for me, it just says they're "more of the same". What is it that defines Labour and is different from what defines Conservatives? This is hard because Conservatives are currently shape-shifters and throw money at things for political advantage, although often there is only "pretend money" as in councils being allowed to sell assets and use the money to pay the recurrent bill announced yesterday (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptional-financial-support-for-local-authorities-for-2024-25).

 

[nw1]

39.7% turnout.

Looks like Galloway has won with Independent Dave Tully possibly having come 2nd.

Shame on all the people who voted for him.

MAKE ROCHDALE GREAT AGAIN. Says it all.

 

[DarloRich]

For me it's a second reason not to vote Labour in the election, although my loathing for the Conservatives and my dislike for my MP will probably over-ride this when it comes to putting a tick in a box.

Could you expand a little on this point? Labour have cocked up here but they have made vast improvements in control and candidate selection since the Corbyn era.

I think Labour has to stand for something apart from "not being the Conservatives" and decide what that is. The £28bn non-pledge, for example, is a disaster for me, it just says they're "more of the same". What is it that defines Labour and is different from what defines Conservatives?

They do! however the Tories keep stealing thier ideas ( non dom the most recent!) Personally I think the £28bn pledge was dealt with well. It cant be afforded but the substance remains the same . Dont focus on the number. Look at the substance: Great British Energy, National Wealth fund, grants to homes to install solar and insulation, focus on green economy job creation.

it is certainly more than the Tories promise!

 

[nw1]

An own goal for labour last night that has allowed Galloway back into Parliament. The man is trouble. He will be trouble for Labour because:

• the crank left will gather around him and use social media to share his utterings & lap up his populist rhetoric ( and he has considerable rhetorical powers)

Except to me he is the antithesis of the left.

He has refused to debate with an Israeli - not because they were involved in any mistreatment of Palestinians, but just because they were an Israeli. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-of-middle-east-debate-at-oxford-8505232.html

'I don't debate with Israelis': George Galloway accused of racism after walking out of Middle East debate at Oxford

He has made Trumpist slogans on his campaign material.
He is a hard Brexiter who has campaigned for Farage.
He has questionable attitudes towards gender politics and is going on about "the family" like some kind of deep-South Republican fundamentalist, which implicitly suggests to me that other forms of lifestyle are second-class. (see election literature above)

So to me and in my own personal opinion, I am afraid, he is firmly on the right wing of politics.

 

[jfollows]

Could you expand a little on this point? Labour have cocked up here but they have made vast improvements in control and candidate selection since the Corbyn era.

Rochdale makes me think that they have a lot further to go yet, and their incompetence here seems clear - not because the central party was responsible for the initial problem but because they delayed doing something about it until it was too late.
The result of their non-candidate is a disaster for Labour in the short term, many here were more positive about his chances but in the end he did terribly. And he's still the "Labour candidate" in many peoples' eyes.

 

[nw1]

Rochdale makes me think that they have a lot further to go yet, and their incompetence here seems clear - not because the central party was responsible for the initial problem but because they delayed doing something aboutit until it was too late.
The result of their non-candidate is a disaster for Labour in the short term, many here were more positive about his chances but in the end he did terribly. And he's still the "Labour candidate" in many peoples' eyes.

So what would your take be on the coming election now? Do you think the Tories might somehow win? Or just a case of a slim majority for Labour or hung parliament?

I think it's just a local issue. Wellingborough occurred after all this happened and Labour still managed to do well there.

Not all seats will have a populist fruitcake like Galloway standing, and the Tories are still deeply unpopular.

 

[jfollows]

So what would your take be on the coming election now? Do you think the Tories might somehow win? Or just a case of a slim majority for Labour or hung parliament?

I think it's just a local issue. Wellingborough occurred after all this happened and Labour still managed to do well there.

Not all seats will have a populist fruitcake like Galloway standing, and the Tories are still deeply unpopular.

Labour will win the election with a huge majority; just about everyone hates the Tories and won't vote for them, or will vote against them deliberately.
Galloway is irrelevant, Labour will re-take Rochdale easily.
It's just the messaging that is currently poor, because this gets blamed on the central party and not on local issues.
Labour's real problem is how to win the election after next, because not being the Tories won't be enough.

 

[dangie]

So 60.3% of the electorate found themselves unable to support any candidate, a fact that will conveniently forgotten by the little man in the big hat in his victory rant.…

The poor turnout is due to the people of Rochdale not voting. Like him or loath him, that is not the fault of George Galloway.

 

[nw1]

• the free Palestine movement will be drawn to him like flies round excrement

I dislike what Netanyahu is doing in Gaza intensely. However I detest Galloway with a passion. partly because of his apparent blanket "problem" with Israelis. I suspect I am far from the only person with this combination of views, and many of us who want to see an end to the war and feel sympathy for Palestinian suffering will not feel even a microgram of sympathy towards Galloway.

 

[DarloRich]

Except to me he is the antithesis of the left.

you will note: "crank left"

Rochdale makes me think that they have a lot further to go yet, and their incompetence here seems clear - not because the central party was responsible for the initial problem but because they delayed doing something aboutit until it was too late.
The result of their non-candidate is a disaster for Labour in the short term, many here were more positive about his chances but in the end he did terribly. And he's still the "Labour candidate" in many peoples' eyes.

Labour withdrew. They did not campaign.

The poor turnout is due to the people of Rochdale not voting. Like him or loath him, that is not the fault of George Galloway.

Ok - but putting myself in the local shoes. As a labour supporter who would I vote for? I suspect I would spoil my ballot but many wouldn't bother turning out. This result is the consequence of that.

Galloway got in on C.32% of a c32% turnout!

 

[nw1]

Labour withdrew. They did not campaign.

Ok - but putting myself in the local shoes. As a labour supporter who would I vote for? I suspect I would spoil my ballot but many wouldn't bother turning out. This result is the consequence of that.

I realise you were replying to @jfollows here but I'll offer a view. In this instance I would vote Lib Dem, though I suppose my politics is more anti-Tory than always pro-Labour and I have voted for both Labour and the Lib Dems.

I think Labour has to stand for something apart from "not being the Conservatives" and decide what that is. The £28bn green non-pledge, for example, is a disaster for me, it just says they're "more of the same". What is it that defines Labour and is different from what defines Conservatives? This is hard because Conservatives are currently shape-shifters and throw money at things for political advantage, although often there is only "pretend money" as in councils being allowed to sell assets and use the money to pay the recurrent bill announced yesterday (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptional-financial-support-for-local-authorities-for-2024-25).

I think that is in principle true but they are playing it overly safe now in order to win the election. They are being less pro-immigration and pro-EU than they might naturally be, because potentially these could be vote-losers. They are perhaps being fiscally "tighter" than they might naturally be, to avoid accusations of profligate spending.

In short they are worried about being slaughtered by the right-wing press and thus being a bit bland and inoffensive at the moment, avoiding taking too much of a socially- and economically-liberal stance on issues. I guess they've decided that this is the best strategy to win this upcoming election.

As for the election after that, I agree that they have to put clear water between themselves and the Tories, and personally, once they are in, I believe this will happen and life under Labour in the second half of the decade will be considerably better than the joke of a Government that we have endured since 2019. Unfortunately the UK has probably just come through its most right-wing period since Thatcher and thus Labour have to be a bit more right-wing than they would like to be, in order to win this coming election. Not ideal I guess but better than 5 more years of Sunak and the other clowns.

 

[DarloRich]

I realise you were replying to @jfollows here but I'll offer a view. In this instance I would vote Lib Dem, though I suppose my politics is more anti-Tory than always pro-Labour and I have voted for both Labour and the Lib Dems.

I guess so, although they polled about the same as the (non) Labour candidate - interestingly the local independent candidate came second with a massive vote share for such a candidate - perhaps the non Galloway votes went there.

( worth noting that if you are a Labour member you can be expelled for voting for another party)

 

[brad465]

Galloway can buy his next spandex catsuit from the Primark he wants opened in this constituency.

 

[43096]

MAKE ROCHDALE GREAT AGAIN. Says it all.

That presupposes that Rochdale was great in the first place.

 

[dangie]

Ok - but putting myself in the local shoes. As a labour supporter who would I vote for? I suspect I would spoil my ballot but many wouldn't bother turning out. This result is the consequence of that.

Galloway got in on C.32% of a c32% turnout!

Yes I understand that, but by not voting you put yourself into the hands of the cranks & nutcases who would vote for a turnip if it were one of the candidates. Sometimes you just need to suss who you think will be the best of a poor bunch (or who will cause he least damage) and give them your ‘X’

 

[nw1]

That presupposes that Rochdale was great in the first place.

I've never been so can't comment, only seen it from a distance (from the surrounding hills). Rightly or wrongly, though, this result is not doing wonders for its image so the people who voted for him, and the voters who stayed at home rather than voting for the Lib Dem or the Independent, should have thought about that a little bit more.

 

[dangie]

MAKE ROCHDALE GREAT AGAIN. Says it all.

I think he meant to spell it ‘MAKE ROCHDALE GRATE AGAIN’

 

[DarloRich]

Yes I understand that, but by not voting you put yourself into the hands of the cranks & nutcases who would vote for a turnip if it were one of the candidates. Sometimes you just need to suss who you think will be the best of a poor bunch (or who will cause he least damage) and give them your ‘X’

i don't disagree in the slightest.

 

[nw1]

I think he meant to spell it ‘MAKE ROCHDALE GRATE AGAIN’

It's certainly had quite a history of dodgy MPs; most of the time it's been in the news has been for all the wrong reasons - rightly or wrongly.

 

[greatkingrat]

The turnout in Rochdale was actually pretty good for a by election, it was higher than Kingswood, Wellingborough or Tamworth

 

[jfollows]

I don’t like Galloway either, but “two cheeks of the same backside” (referring to Labour and Conservative parties) is a good line.

 

[D6130]

That presupposes that Rochdale was great in the first place.

Rochdale was indeed great at one time. As one of the main centres of the Lancashire cotton industry in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries it was once an extremely rich and affluent place....if you happened to be a mill owner or manager. It was, of course, a completely different matter if you were a mill worker, living with your family in a tiny, cramped back-to-back terraced house. Its past affluence is reflected in its gloriously ornate town hall - a smaller version of Manchester's - which has recently undergone a multi-million pound restoration and refurbishment.

Declaration of interest: A good friend of my wife has spent the last three years working on the cleaning and restoration of the town hall's sumptuous stained glass windows.

 

[AM9]

I don’t like Galloway either, but “two cheeks of the same backside” (referring to Labour and Conservative parties) is a good line.

Where does he see himself in relation to those two cheeks?

 

[edwin_m]

It's ironic that in trying to stamp out any suggestion of antisemitism, Labour has enabled an MP who is far more antisemitic than their own candidate.

 

[nr758123]

I suspect that, once they had moved beyond the initial farce of having to disown their candidate for his comments, Labour may not be too unhappy that George Galloway has won and their own candidate hasn't.

It would have been awkward to have had Azhar Ali as a suspended Labour MP standing against an official candidate at the general election. It also keeps Galloway busy representing Rochdale in parliament (I'm setting to one side his apparent belief that he also represents Gaza in the UK parliament) when it has previously been reported that he was considering running against Sadiq Khan for the London mayoralty.

 

[ainsworth74]

It also keeps Galloway busy representing Rochdale in parliament (I'm setting to one side his apparent belief that he also represents Gaza in the UK parliament) when it has previously been reported that he was considering running against Sadiq Khan for the London mayoralty.

As if he's going to be doing anything other than advancing his own personal interests! He certainly isn't going to be spending any time representing Rochdale

 

[75A]

This all makes politics this side of the water look simple!

 

[nr758123]

As if he's going to be doing anything other than advancing his own personal interests! He certainly isn't going to be spending any time representing Rochdale

You might think so. I couldn't possibly comment.