75A
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Depends on route knowledge
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Derailment between Hersham & Walton on Thames (04/03)
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E16 Cyclist
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Exeters can’t as 159’s are not route cleared down the cobham line
Looks like 1W56 is doing this now.
The one point that does surprise me with how SWR manage line blocks between Baskingstoke / Waterloo is that it always seems to take an inordinate amount of time to set up a shuttle service to/from Basingstoke / Woking and the south coast. I appreciate it is nontrivial to do this but equally would have hoped there would have been contingency planning for a block on the mainline.
Even now, 7 hours after the incident, they have no guidance on their website saying, for example "We're operating hourly shuttles from Weymouth to Basingstoke" or "We're running Portsmouth trains on an alternative route between Surbiton and Guildford". At times I feel that SWR really don't help themselves with their passenger comms.
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paul1609
Established Member
In theory, in practice GTR have five Tph crossing on the flat between Havant and Farlington Junctions interwoven with a GWR and 2 SWR at Cosham. Even 1ph diverted "Scum Express" via Havant causes chaos across the south coast now.
Very few crews have the route knowledge to run Waterloo to Southampton via Cobham and Havant. It's only Fratton crews, and even then not all drivers so it's a difficult diversion to do ad hoc. If you run via Cobham then reverse at Guildford you can also use Waterloo crews but it still won't help with many Weymouth trains
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
SWR website is absolutely shocking it links you across to a disruption website which you then put your journey plan in. Put in Waterloo to Poole and click a train which shows its starting from Basingstoke (why not Woking?) anyhow how do i get to Basingstoke no advice but presumable get a stopper upto reading than a GWR/XC down to Basingstoke. For all the faults of other operators they at least have a half decent update on the website about what the alternatives are and where ticket acceptance has been sorted.
SWR are truly dire at disruption management, not helped by dire signaling decisions and some clueless crew in denial. This morning was beyond their control but some things were just bizarre like holding the trains from Portsmouth and Exeter trains outside Basingstoke to put them on Plat 2 and 3 whilst letting the train to Exeter very unusually use platform 4.
Then they let the XC pass both the Exeter and Pompey trains and use Platform 4, even though it was last to arrive and would have provided a VERY useful Reading connection. Add to that the guard on the 0510 from Exeter making announcements no-one could hear and when asked continually saying "Nothing he could do and Happy Monday" and not to worry as trains would definitely be going to Waterloo from Basingstoke.
If nothing else, surely they need to start learning lessons to get better in future as its the same chaos every time and yet GWR seem to do so much better when it happens to them.
Then they let the XC pass both the Exeter and Pompey trains and use Platform 4, even though it was last to arrive and would have provided a VERY useful Reading connection. Add to that the guard on the 0510 from Exeter making announcements no-one could hear and when asked continually saying "Nothing he could do and Happy Monday" and not to worry as trains would definitely be going to Waterloo from Basingstoke.
If nothing else, surely they need to start learning lessons to get better in future as its the same chaos every time and yet GWR seem to do so much better when it happens to them.
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RailWonderer
Established Member
Even if more crews signed all combinations of routes you then have the problem of units off diagram and not being able to make their out/inbound workings and having to substitute units. You then need enough spares. I know ToCs do VSTP but the SWR network is too complex a route to do on the fly.
And 1T29 11.09 Waterloo-Portsmouth Harbour via Basingstoke, which shows No Report for all stations between Clapham Junction and Byfleet & New Haw but does show reported times at B&NH and all stations west thereof: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y00971/2024-03-04/detailed#allox_id=0
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
To be fair the Down Slow could be used if there was a will once they had got a MOM down there and understood the state of play. They have now shortened back to Byfleet but that took far too long as well.
DMckduck97
Member
A train has derailed, the RAIB will have been calling the shots about what can and can't happen until further notice.
For all we know there could be potential evidence material across all four tracks. Safety and a thorough investigation is far more important than hurrying to open a line or two
Are they actually any wider than anything else, or is it just that no-one ever bothered to clear them for all routes that they might need to run on?
D6130
Established Member
My Byfleet correspondent has just advised me that some services are now diverting via Addlestone. That may well have been the first one.
Omnishambles
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Bang on DMckduck97 !! As posted earlier I would be highly surprised if RAIB weren't all over this. NR will be lucky to get the site back today to start reviewing any recovery in my experience. Looks like via Reading to work for me for the next couple of day methinks
D6130
Established Member
It may be due to platform clearances for their outward-opening plug doors....the same reason why 158s are not cleared for the West Highland line, IIRC.
Looks likely looking how scuffed the wheel is…
CarrotPie
Member
Would that not mean they'd be able to run fast down the line, without opening doors?
Not much. It only rests in the pots that are screwed in to the sleepers.
It is more than likely due to the fact on axle is off that the wheel is close to the third rail, plus we can’t see how much damage has been done from the point of derailment to where the train stopped.
gabrielhj07
Member
Any word on what the 450 might have hit? By the looks of that picture it's snapped the lifeguard clean off.
From NR photos. I assume it's this unit. Considering the weight of these Desiro and the assumed speed, its pretty amazing that its still upright.
ValleyLines142
Established Member
450092
Hopefully it didn't hit itself
LiftFan
Member
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If it's true that it was doing 90mph I am incredibly impressed at how well the outcome has been. Pure luck or is it testament to the design of the Desiros?
Deepgreen
Established Member
Extremely unlikely, as it is quite easily deposed from its insulator pots and pushed aside. It is not designed for large sideways loads.
D6130
Established Member
No, the train has to be able to stop at intermediate stations to detrain passengers in case of an emergency.
Snow1964
Established Member
There are effectively two sites, where the derailment happened (which will of more interest) and obvious from subsequent marks on sleepers or ballast. More importantly evidence of what it hit or condition of the track at that point.
The second site where train stopped (which having taken some photos, doesn't need lot of further investigation that can't be achieved in a nearby siding), having lifted it back on the track. Anything on the train that got dented or broken won't really tell them differently if it is checked in situ or when parked later.
Between the two will presumably be some kinked or moved conductor rail, and lots of broken insulators. Irrelevant to cause but of some interest as to how train stayed roughly in line (and clearly third rail does partly work like guard rails with wheel between the two)
Deepgreen
Established Member
I suspect a combination of luck and the fact that it occurred on a 'plain' and more or less straight section of track (there is a very slight curve to the right before W-o-T station) - i.e. no points. The ballast and sleepers look to be at an even level, perhaps allowing the derailed wheels to run straight. I imagine that if the whole bogie had come off it could have been hugely worse, without the rear set of wheels to guide it.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
Its lucky wheelset has derailed towards up slow as if it had been the other side may have caused a collision with the redundant up fast platform at Walton on Thames and that would have been a lot worse.
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