National express West Midlands

[Wyrleybart]

Not seen a "hydroliner" for months now and more maroon vehicles seem to be running the 51 and the 997. Presume it is still the Tyseley fuelling problem, but I heard NXWM were installing a fueller at Walsall's Birchills depot. Have also heard that NXWM are passing some of the depots to "the hub" whatever that is.

 

[dvboy]

Barely a mention of it on the NX website, but the Short Hop, Birmingham City Hop and Birmingham Uni Hop fares currently £1.50 are being withdrawn and won't be available from Monday 8 April.

 

[DavidGrain]

Barely a mention of it on the NX website, but the Short Hop, Birmingham City Hop and Birmingham Uni Hop fares currently £1.50 are being withdrawn and won't be available from Monday 8 April.

I have never used the City Hop fare myself but I would imagine that it was major benefit for people travelling within the Middle Ring Road say from Five Ways into the city centre.

 

[Mwanesh]

Not seen a "hydroliner" for months now and more maroon vehicles seem to be running the 51 and the 997. Presume it is still the Tyseley fuelling problem, but I heard NXWM were installing a fueller at Walsall's Birchills depot. Have also heard that NXWM are passing some of the depots to "the hub" whatever that is.

Hydroliners have been off the road since end of January I think. There are problems with the fuelling station. Walsall has had a few buses transferred from Wolverhampton

 

[Russel]

Not seen a "hydroliner" for months now and more maroon vehicles seem to be running the 51 and the 997. Presume it is still the Tyseley fuelling problem, but I heard NXWM were installing a fueller at Walsall's Birchills depot. Have also heard that NXWM are passing some of the depots to "the hub" whatever that is.

Not really proving to be a success, are they...

 

[Wyrleybart]

Not really proving to be a success, are they...

Don't seem to be, but is it the bus itself, or they way they are intended to be fuelled ?
I was under the impression the fuelling at Tyseley was to be a temporsary thing until Walsall's Birchills depot received it's permanent hydrogen fuelling plant. There doesn't seem a point in buying twenty buses at probably three hundred thousand quid a pop, and not the installation to make them work.

 

[Man of Kent]

Don't seem to be, but is it the bus itself, or they way they are intended to be fuelled ?
I was under the impression the fuelling at Tyseley was to be a temporsary thing until Walsall's Birchills depot received it's permanent hydrogen fuelling plant. There doesn't seem a point in buying twenty buses at probably three hundred thousand quid a pop, and not the installation to make them work.

£300,000? That'll barely buy you a new diesel double deck nowadays. These were closer to £0.5m each - I seem to recall there was a Freedom of Information answer in respect of the TfL ones that gave a price of £505,000 per bus, but I can't find it at the moment.

 

[Russel]

Don't seem to be, but is it the bus itself, or they way they are intended to be fuelled ?
I was under the impression the fuelling at Tyseley was to be a temporsary thing until Walsall's Birchills depot received it's permanent hydrogen fuelling plant. There doesn't seem a point in buying twenty buses at probably three hundred thousand quid a pop, and not the installation to make them work.

I believe I heard the same, but NXWM's definition of temporary needs questioning, these buses were introduced into service around 2 years ago now, wasn't they?

 

[Woody38]

The ones in Liverpool have never left the depot, apart from a few test runs. What a waste.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Hi all,

Forgive me if this is discussed elsewhere - this isn't my usual part of the forum!

I live in Wolverhampton and I'm just curious really what's going on with the strange mix of buses we have, particularly on the 1 (Dudley - Tettenhall Wood) service. I'm sure they used to be almost exclusively the grey hybrid buses with the automated stop announcements, until a few months back, when it started to be a real mix... we have more modern grey ones, mixed in with the newer red ones, mixed in with old tired red ones, mixed in with absolutely knackered blue ones stickered "On loan from Coventry" ... any idea why? And particularly why we need to loan old buses from the Coventry area? If it's a loan, it's a pretty long-term one at this point...

Thanks!

 

[WM Bus]

Hi all,

Forgive me if this is discussed elsewhere - this isn't my usual part of the forum!

I live in Wolverhampton and I'm just curious really what's going on with the strange mix of buses we have, particularly on the 1 (Dudley - Tettenhall Wood) service. I'm sure they used to be almost exclusively the grey hybrid buses with the automated stop announcements, until a few months back, when it started to be a real mix... we have more modern grey ones, mixed in with the newer red ones, mixed in with old tired red ones, mixed in with absolutely knackered blue ones stickered "On loan from Coventry" ... any idea why? And particularly why we need to loan old buses from the Coventry area? If it's a loan, it's a pretty long-term one at this point...

Thanks!

Wolverhampton based vehicles on a Wolverhampton garage route.
Coventry decker fleet is fully electric since Autumn 2023 displacing these and the 3 red and white ones are ex soho road ones from West Brom. They aren't repainted overnight.

NXWM 4700-4995

 

[Alex 2901]

Hi all,

Forgive me if this is discussed elsewhere - this isn't my usual part of the forum!

I live in Wolverhampton and I'm just curious really what's going on with the strange mix of buses we have, particularly on the 1 (Dudley - Tettenhall Wood) service. I'm sure they used to be almost exclusively the grey hybrid buses with the automated stop announcements, until a few months back, when it started to be a real mix... we have more modern grey ones, mixed in with the newer red ones, mixed in with old tired red ones, mixed in with absolutely knackered blue ones stickered "On loan from Coventry" ... any idea why? And particularly why we need to loan old buses from the Coventry area? If it's a loan, it's a pretty long-term one at this point...

Thanks!

In brief:

The E400 hybrids (the ones originally new for the 1 in 2013, and the ones recieved from Dundee in 2018) have been taken off the 1 due to struggling with reliability on the route now (the 1 being a rather hilly route, that also happens to be stop-start in nature), with the ex-West Bromwich and ex-Coventry E400s now being used on the 1, alongside single deck B7RLEs.

None of the hybrids were grey though, only Crimson. The Platinums do still get on the 1, though to a smaller extent than they used to (in my experience, anyway.)

The E400s that arrived from Coventry aren't on loan and never have been - exactly why NX put "I'm on loan from Coventry" on the stickers remains a mystery, because those stickers haven't been put on a single bus that has actually been on loan - but as mentioned, it takes a while to repaint a reasonably large number of buses (21 of them, in this case), hence the blue buses running around en masse.

Hope that helps.

 

[trainJam]

Something which has been bugging me every once in a while in the background but not thought about too much and forgot to check it afterwards.

1. What does the E stand for? Does it have a word like the A nti-Clockwise and C lockwise for the 8 or 11 circular routes?

Based on what I see (the destination to go with it on the blinds), the bus is ending early and curtailing somewhere - although I only see this now and then.
What must draw my attention is that the destination looks different to the usual destination.

When I was younger I used to think E for "Express" . Although, X is for the express routes.

So, for the facts:

2. Is the E used for an unexpected change to the timetable on the day e.g. bus is late, so turn back early?
3. Is the E used for planned cases where the bus is booked not to go to the end of the route (I see it on bus stops e.g. not every X21 goes to Merry Hill on Sunday)?

Actually, is it even possible to have an X prefix and an E suffix e.g. X4E, X21E? I think I saw a 904E a few years ago - obviously now that is an X4.
I think the ones I saw were 907E and 76E (or maybe 49E?) a few months ago. Never seen an X()E. Looks unnatural.

4. A situation I don't get as I usually have a day ticket - how are single tickets dealt with in a curtailment situation?

 

[WM Bus]

Something which has been bugging me every once in a while in the background but not thought about too much and forgot to check it afterwards.

1. What does the E stand for? Does it have a word like the A nti-Clockwise and C lockwise for the 8 or 11 circular routes?

Based on what I see (the destination to go with it on the blinds), the bus is ending early and curtailing somewhere - although I only see this now and then.
What must draw my attention is that the destination looks different to the usual destination.

When I was younger I used to think E for "Express" . Although, X is for the express routes.

So, for the facts:

2. Is the E used for an unexpected change to the timetable on the day e.g. bus is late, so turn back early?
3. Is the E used for planned cases where the bus is booked not to go to the end of the route (I see it on bus stops e.g. not every X21 goes to Merry Hill on Sunday)?

Actually, is it even possible to have an X prefix and an E suffix e.g. X4E, X21E? I think I saw a 904E a few years ago - obviously now that is an X4.
I think the ones I saw were 907E and 76E (or maybe 49E?) a few months ago. Never seen an X()E. Looks unnatural.

4. A situation I don't get as I usually have a day ticket - how are single tickets dealt with in a curtailment situation?

They would just display X21 University, X21 Weoley Castle etc I believe. Not X21E

 

[CharlieSpotted]

In brief:

The E400 hybrids (the ones originally new for the 1 in 2013, and the ones recieved from Dundee in 2018) have been taken off the 1 due to struggling with reliability on the route now (the 1 being a rather hilly route, that also happens to be stop-start in nature), with the ex-West Bromwich and ex-Coventry E400s now being used on the 1, alongside single deck B7RLEs.

None of the hybrids were grey though, only Crimson. The Platinums do still get on the 1, though to a smaller extent than they used to (in my experience, anyway.)

The E400s that arrived from Coventry aren't on loan and never have been - exactly why NX put "I'm on loan from Coventry" on the stickers remains a mystery, because those stickers haven't been put on a single bus that has actually been on loan - but as mentioned, it takes a while to repaint a reasonably large number of buses (21 of them, in this case), hence the blue buses running around en masse.

Hope that helps.

That's a great explanation, thank you.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Something which has been bugging me every once in a while in the background but not thought about too much and forgot to check it afterwards.

1. What does the E stand for? Does it have a word like the A nti-Clockwise and C lockwise for the 8 or 11 circular routes?

Based on what I see (the destination to go with it on the blinds), the bus is ending early and curtailing somewhere - although I only see this now and then.
What must draw my attention is that the destination looks different to the usual destination.

When I was younger I used to think E for "Express" . Although, X is for the express routes.

So, for the facts:

2. Is the E used for an unexpected change to the timetable on the day e.g. bus is late, so turn back early?
3. Is the E used for planned cases where the bus is booked not to go to the end of the route (I see it on bus stops e.g. not every X21 goes to Merry Hill on Sunday)?

Actually, is it even possible to have an X prefix and an E suffix e.g. X4E, X21E? I think I saw a 904E a few years ago - obviously now that is an X4.
I think the ones I saw were 907E and 76E (or maybe 49E?) a few months ago. Never seen an X()E. Looks unnatural.

4. A situation I don't get as I usually have a day ticket - how are single tickets dealt with in a curtailment situation?

I think traditionally it referred to EXTRA (so a peak hour supplement to a service and usually a short working or route variation).

 

[Edvid]

NXWM won't be acquiring any additional hydrogen buses for the foreseeable.

Disciplined capital allocation

During the year, the business undertook a commercial review of a project to bring 100 [double-decker] Hydrogen Fuel Cell ZEVs into UK Bus operations, as part of the ZEBRA (Zero Emission Bus Regional Areas) Government funding scheme. The review drew on insight gained in running a fleet of 20 buses in Birmingham in partnership with Birmingham City Council. Given what we learnt from this small trial, we made the decision to move away from the hydrogen element of the ZEBRA scheme. We are in discussions with TfWM and DfT about next steps. Hydrogen may become viable for longer distance Coach operations in the future, and that will be further evaluated as the technology evolves.

Source: Mobico Group FY2023 results

The ZEBRA1 grant for 124 buses had already been altered last year (changing the 24 planned Sprint artics from hydrogen to battery-electric, and word of a confirmed order is still awaited I believe).

 

[WM Bus]

I think traditionally it referred to EXTRA (so a peak hour supplement to a service and usually a short working or route variation).

It stands for exception I think.

If you had the chance to modify or add any service, what would you do? - Page 41

If you had the chance to modify or add any service, what would you do? - Page 41

wmbusphotos.com

When E was introduced by WMPTE it meant Exception (a short working). This replaced Birmingham's system where the closest turn round to downtown was A the next B and so on. For example on the 50 (city to Maypole) 50J was to Kings Heath only, and 50K was Alcester Lanes End.

A and C were used by WMPTE to signify anticlockwise and clockwise respectively.

With national express WM changing route numbers to be 1-99 only they are having to use A to signify a branch of a main service and X for limited stop services. The WMPTE system had unique numbers for all routes - 1-99 Birmingham, 100-299 ex Midland Red, 300-399 Walsall, 400-499 West Bromwich, 500-599 Wolverhampton, 800 series Schools and 900 series Limited Stop.

 

[Bungle965]

NXWM won't be acquiring any additional hydrogen buses for the foreseeable.


Source: Mobico Group FY2023 results

The ZEBRA1 grant for 124 buses had already been altered last year (changing the 24 planned Sprint artics from hydrogen to battery-electric, and word of a confirmed order is still awaited I believe).

Note that any further discussions around the business case for Hydrogen can be made in the thread the OP has created:

Hydrogen bus deployment challenges

It's been noted on this forum quite a few times now, so I figured it merited its own thread now that Route One have published an article on the topic. https://www.route-one.net/bus/fuel-supply-brings-challenges-for-more-hydrogen-bus-deployment/ Fuel supply brings challenges for more hydrogen...

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