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Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

Anonymous10

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Quite a few other routes could do with longer formations too, but two coaches is apparently all they'll get.
Which routes? To my knowledge north Wales coast will be 3/4 and Manchester 2/3/4 or 5 usually 4 or 5. Maesteg and Ebbw Vale will be 3. That only leaves the crew Chester cuttle and Shrewsbury Crewe local along with a few other branch lines in North.

The west Wales lines can mostly cope with 2 excluding summer when tenby could use 3 coaches / sporting events and finally heart of Wales that 2 153s would be fine for.

Please correct me if I'm wrong however.

I have excluded the cambrian due to not having enough knowledge on this area.
 
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animationmilo

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Which routes? To my knowledge north Wales coast will be 3/4 and Manchester 2/3/4 or 5 usually 4 or 5. Maesteg and Ebbw Vale will be 3. That only leaves the crew Chester cuttle and Shrewsbury Crewe local along with a few other branch lines in North.

The west Wales lines can mostly cope with 2 excluding summer when tenby could use 3 coaches / sporting events and finally heart of Wales that 2 153s would be fine for.

Please correct me if I'm wrong however.

I have excluded the cambrian due to not having enough knowledge on this area.
I thought 231s were going on Maestegs
 

Krokodil

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Which routes? To my knowledge north Wales coast will be 3/4 and Manchester 2/3/4 or 5 usually 4 or 5.
North Wales to Manchester was to be three cars, with a couple of of peak trains strengthened to fives east of Chester. Not good enough, even four car sets end up full and standing on the coast.

Llandudno to Liverpool was to be two cars, with a few combined, with the Cardiff to Liverpool services east of Chester. Those two car sets will be full and standing from Llandudno, never mind once they reach Rhyl.

Holyhead to Birmingham was supposed to be two cars between Holyhead and Shrewsbury, the four cars from there. A plan described by one of the controllers as "madness". Again, four car sets can end up full and standing on the coast so using two car sets is idiotic.

The Cambrian meanwhile was to remain as it is at the moment. Four cars to Machynlleth, splitting there for Pwllheli and Aberystwyth. It's taken a lot of fighting to get one of those Pwllheli trains strengthened to four coaches, loadings were really silly.
 

Anonymous10

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I thought 231s were going on Maestegs
Oops yes they're 4 coaches...

North Wales to Manchester was to be three cars, with a couple of of peak trains strengthened to fives east of Chester. Not good enough, even four car sets end up full and standing on the coast.

Llandudno to Liverpool was to be two cars, with a few combined, with the Cardiff to Liverpool services east of Chester. Those two car sets will be full and standing from Llandudno, never mind once they reach Rhyl.

Holyhead to Birmingham was supposed to be two cars between Holyhead and Shrewsbury, the four cars from there. A plan described by one of the controllers as "madness". Again, four car sets can end up full and standing on the coast so using two car sets is idiotic.

The Cambrian meanwhile was to remain as it is at the moment. Four cars to Machynlleth, splitting there for Pwllheli and Aberystwyth. It's taken a lot of fighting to get one of those Pwllheli trains strengthened to four coaches, loadings were really silly.
My point was to illustrate that many routes will NOT primarily be 2 coach
 

Topological

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Also of relevance is what is being replaced.

Manchester had a regular 3-car service, but is getting a majority 2-car at the moment. The Mk4 offer 2.5 or 3.5 (but the higher density of Mk4 mean that actually you are getting either 3 or 4 carriages). So IF a Mk4 runs that is an improvement. However, we are often seeing a 2-car service on a journey which had better under the 175s.

Liverpool is gaining many new TfW services and these are very welcome. However, they are not replacing anything so starting with 2-car is a good first position. The fact that the North Wales frequency increases means that there are more carriages between the stations even if the North Wales to Manchester/Shrewsbury services are not longer than they used to be. Note again a double 197 is better than a 3-car 175 for that route too.

It would be great if more 197s could be ordered. If they could I would have just 5 car 197s on Manchester so that connectivity across Cardiff was restored. I would send the Mk4 to Holyhead so they could stay entirely (almost) within Wales and provide the capacity needed on the North Wales coast too.

As it is I hope people understand why passengers on the Manchester line are not happy at the moment, and have not been happy for some time.
 

Jez

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All being well it shouldn't be. HD07 is planned to pick up that diagram from Cardiff so should work 12:49 from Cardiff/16:30 from Manchester.
Excellent news. Perhaps the 3 car 197 that was allocated could be used to replace a 2 car and then 2 x 2 cars doubled up. More capacity overall for Marches hopefully.
 

Krokodil

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Correct me if I'm wrong but north Wales will have more seats and more services thus more options.
I did say "little to no improvement in levels of crowding" which is not the same as saying that there won't be a few more seats, just that the passengers won't see much improvement.

Llandudno will go from having a three car 175 with 200 odd seats departing twice an hour to a two car 197 with 120 odd seats, in some hours with only an hourly departure.

North Wales to Manchester services will go from an hourly three car 175 with some four cars in the peak (one of which was LHCS so a great people mover) and a few half-hour extras to an hourly three car 197 with some five cars in the peak, but only east of Chester.

Holyhead to Shrewsbury (for Birmingham) currently consists of a mixture of two and four car 158s. These will become 197s (so fewer seats per unit, even if some trains retain double sets).

Yes, you get an extra train per hour (or possibly two hours) between Llandudno Junction and Chester, thanks to the new Liverpool service, but that is just about enough to mop up the passengers left behind by all of the other trains, it's not enough to get people seated. Look at the example of Virgin Crosscountry as to how running short trains more frequently just induces demand faster than capacity can meet it.

To keep these on the topic of Mk4 sets, for a while 1W93 was LHCS. Used to run full and standing with first class declassified. Now it is booked for a two car DMU. I've seen some frankly unsafe loads as a result.
 

BillStampy

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Seems HD07 is taking on a final bit of passenger duties tonight on 1B41 from Swansea, leaving 197122 to do 2B74 back to Cardiff later (supposing 2B74 didn't have anything taking it on?) Must be a pleasant surprise to those travelling on it!
 

Western 52

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Seems HD07 is taking on a final bit of passenger duties tonight on 1B41 from Swansea, leaving 197122 to do 2B74 back to Cardiff later (supposing 2B74 didn't have anything taking it on?) Must be a pleasant surprise to those travelling on it!
1B41 calls at Ninian Park. Presumably 67s are cleared there then?
 

Anonymous10

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Jamesrob637

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BillStampy

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Which sets are out tomorrow? I'd usually use RTT but the majority of sets are imaged without the set allocation, thanks!
 

sd0733

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Which sets are out tomorrow? I'd usually use RTT but the majority of sets are imaged without the set allocation, thanks!
Tomorrow should be:
HD01- Canton start
HD03- Crewe start (06:27 from Manchester diagram)
HD05- Crewe start (04:54 to Cardiff diagram)
HD07- Holyhead start

HD06- Spare on Canton

Saturday should have:
HD03 Canton start
HD05- Crewe start (04:54 to Cardiff diagram)
HD07- Crewe start (06:27 from Manchester diagram)

HD01 spare at Holyhead and HD06 spare at Canton

Sunday
HD06- Canton start
HD07- Crewe start
 

BillStampy

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Tomorrow should be:
HD01- Canton start
HD03- Crewe start (06:27 from Manchester diagram)
HD05- Crewe start (04:54 to Cardiff diagram)
HD07- Holyhead start

HD06- Spare on Canton

Saturday should have:
HD03 Canton start
HD05- Crewe start (04:54 to Cardiff diagram)
HD07- Crewe start (06:27 from Manchester diagram)

HD01 spare at Holyhead and HD06 spare at Canton

Sunday
HD06- Canton start
HD07- Crewe start
Thanks mate!
 

38Cto15E

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I have made my first TFW trips this week from Manchester to Cardiff, First Class.
Unfortunately my first trip was the 1430 from Man on Tuesday which turned up a 150 two car, very very disappointed.
More luck today on the 0849 from CDF, I had a very nice brekkie although only one serving member of staff who worked really hard but it was not far off Shrewsbury when I got my brekkie.
The seats I found comfortable but I was hoping for the old LNER ones. The track seemed in good nick and the ride was quiet and comfortable.
I stayed in Sleeperz at Cardiff with my room having good views of the platform ends.
I hope to try the journey again in a month or so.
 

Anonymous10

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I have made my first TFW trips this week from Manchester to Cardiff, First Class.
Unfortunately my first trip was the 1430 from Man on Tuesday which turned up a 150 two car, very very disappointed.
More luck today on the 0849 from CDF, I had a very nice brekkie although only one serving member of staff who worked really hard but it was not far off Shrewsbury when I got my brekkie.
The seats I found comfortable but I was hoping for the old LNER ones. The track seemed in good nick and the ride was quiet and comfortable.
I stayed in Sleeperz at Cardiff with my room having good views of the platform ends.
I hope to try the journey again in a month or so.
Last time I stayed there I unfortunately had a rather nice view over the city centre.
 

Western 52

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After 1W56 failed at Cardiff last Sunday, today it's a very late substitution with a 150! Looks like it will be about 30 minutes late off Swansea.
 

185143

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After 1W56 failed at Cardiff last Sunday, today it's a very late substitution with a 150! Looks like it will be about 30 minutes late off Swansea.
Showing 11:00 on the boards at Swansea, with a note of "NO first class or catering onboard"
 

sd0733

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After 1W56 failed at Cardiff last Sunday, today it's a very late substitution with a 150! Looks like it will be about 30 minutes late off Swansea.
Door fault on HD06. Seems to be a few of those creeping in again
 

Jez

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After 1W56 failed at Cardiff last Sunday, today it's a very late substitution with a 150! Looks like it will be about 30 minutes late off Swansea.
ive just seen it passing Briton Ferry and confirm it is a 150! And yes very late.
 

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