South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Signal_Box]

Surely it’s already bypassed. I assume the through traffic is rat running due to congestion caused by the ludicrous cancellation of the M4 south of Newport?
If lorries are the problem they might be able to get a lorry ban.

No M4 traffic uses Caerloen there’s no benefit to it even if the M4 is choked as usual. The savy drivers jump off at Magor then use the Southern distribution road to rejoin at Tredegar park junction. This in itself causes significant congestion and pollution more so than the actual 50mph pollution zone.

 

[Meerkat]

No M4 traffic uses Caerloen there’s no benefit to it even if the M4 is choked as usual. The savy drivers jump off at Magor then use the Southern distribution road to rejoin at Tredegar park junction. This in itself causes significant congestion and pollution more so than the actual 50mph pollution zone.

I was thinking people coming from the east on the M4 wanting the Cwmbran/Pontypool direction, and vice versa, wanting to avoid the backed up traffic for the tunnels.

 

[Signal_Box]

I was thinking people coming from the east on the M4 wanting the Cwmbran/Pontypool direction, and vice versa, wanting to avoid the backed up traffic for the tunnels.

Living in Caerloen I don’t see a huge or even noticeable flow to be honest even when the M4 is backed up, everyday.

The main issue is the lack of a reasonable connection to the motorway at Malpas road, the current option is via the “Lane of Death” a single track lane with two passing places perched on the side of a hill.

 

[slowroad]

Living in Caerloen I don’t see a huge or even noticeable flow to be honest even when the M4 is backed up, everyday.

The main issue is the lack of a reasonable connection to the motorway at Malpas road, the current option is via the “Lane of Death” a single track lane with two passing places perched on the side of a hill.

I agree about Malpas, but when the motorway is rammed you do get a lot of traffic coming over Catsash from the M4 and backed up at the junction with Caerleon road. I know coz I get stuck in it!

 

[MikePJ]

Another quick Cardiff Bay update: the "cart road" underbridge that's used as a pedestrian and cycle shortcut between Bute St and Lloyd George Avenue has reopened. I think that's been closed for more than a year whilst the bridge was repaired.

 

[Last Hurrah]

TfW have published a consultation on the draft Network Statement for 2026

In practice, very little changes in it from year to year, but I did notice that in the introduction it mentions that "...new stations at Butetown and Crwys Road [are] due to be opened in 2025."

Platform lengths for Danescourt, Fairwater, Waungron Park shown on pages 81-82 out of date as they’ve all been extended in ‘24

 

[Envoy]

Does anybody know how far off completion of the Rhymney Valley electrification is as that would allow the 756’s to start service & free up the 231’s for Maesteg to Cheltenham which would free up some 197’s?

Of course, I do realise that the central valley lines* now have electrification complete but we have yet to see 756’s in public service on these lines presumably because the crews are not trained? That does not bode well as even if the Rhymney valley line electrifcation was complete, the crews are not ready for the 756’s. *Yes, I do realise that these lines will have the Class398 tram-trains.

 

[CapitalStar378]

There’s a comment on another thread that the 398s have wheelset issues and haven’t even been out on test for months, I don’t think the 756s will be starting the Rhymney’s any time soon if that’s the case.

 

[MikePJ]

Does anybody know how far off completion of the Rhymney Valley electrification is as that would allow the 756’s to start service & free up the 231’s for Maesteg to Cheltenham which would free up some 197’s?

Of course, I do realise that the central valley lines* now have electrification complete but we have yet to see 756’s in public service on these lines presumably because the crews are not trained? That does not bode well as even if the Rhymney valley line electrifcation was complete, the crews are not ready for the 756’s. *Yes, I do realise that these lines will have the Class398 tram-trains.

Going back to the project timeline: wires are supposed to be live to Coryton and Caerphilly this coming November, reaching Rhymney in September 2025. I would not be surprised if a 6 month delay (i.e. the gap between the two annual timetable changes) is programmed in between "expected completion of electricification" and "planned entry into service of electric trains", as this allows contingency for construction delays, integration testing and crew training. On that basis I would not expect to see electric trains to Coryton and Caerphilly before May '25. However, TfW have repeatedly talked about introducing 756s on the Treherbert, Aberdare and Merthyr services this autumn as a stop-gap until the 398s are ready. This seems likely to displace some Sprinters rather than the 231s.

 

[positron]

Caerphilly bay platform has it's fixed conductor bar and I think the wiring is up as far as the limit before the tunnel. So it's plausible that stuff actually gets switched on as scheduled. Beyond Caerphilly there's not a single mast up from what I've seen.

Would be good to get the 3 car 756s running on the coryton/Caerphilly - Penarth services. Then the 4 carriage ones can be used for TAM lines till 398s are ready. Idk if that frees up any 231s though.

 

[Envoy]

If not a single mast is up beyond Caerphilly, then that is truly shocking. 398 wheel set issues - if true, then surely that is an even bigger problem?

If the Class 756 trains go onto the central valley lines (Treherbert, Aberdare & Merthyr) for the time being, then that surely frees up a load of 150’s that can go on to the Rhymney line and therefore release the 231’s for the Cheltenham to Maesteg run which in turn releases 197’s for other mainline work - such as lengthening the Manchester trains to 5 coaches.

 

[59CosG95]

If not a single mast is up beyond Caerphilly, then that is truly shocking. 398 wheel set issues - if true, then surely that is an even bigger problem?

If the Class 756 trains go onto the central valley lines (Treherbert, Aberdare & Merthyr) for the time being, then that surely frees up a load of 150’s that can go on to the Rhymney line and therefore release the 231’s for the Cheltenham to Maesteg run which in turn releases 197’s for other mainline work - such as lengthening the Manchester trains to 5 coaches.

IIRC there are a number of masts up in the Pontlottyn area, and have been for a while now.

 

[John R]

Enabling Class 756s (by commissioning the electrification) on the self contained Coryton - Penarth - Caerphilly circuit would release 6 units for use elsewhere or for scrap, so would represent a reasonable step forward in use of the new fleet.

 

[Caaardiff]

If not a single mast is up beyond Caerphilly, then that is truly shocking. 398 wheel set issues - if true, then surely that is an even bigger problem?

If the Class 756 trains go onto the central valley lines (Treherbert, Aberdare & Merthyr) for the time being, then that surely frees up a load of 150’s that can go on to the Rhymney line and therefore release the 231’s for the Cheltenham to Maesteg run which in turn releases 197’s for other mainline work - such as lengthening the Manchester trains to 5 coaches.

Don't forget that no Mainline train crew sign 231's. From a train crew training perspective it would be better to release 150's for Maesteg/Ebbw Vale/Cheltenham services that generally cope as 2 cars, with the odd 3 car 197 for busier services. They could even have a 150+153 3 car formation.
Once things have settled a bit more then train crew and units can be freed up for training.

Also a number of 150's will continue to be retired. So seeing 756's introduced doesn't automatically cascade 150's to mainline services.
756's are better off on TAM valley services which are electrified.

 

[Envoy]

Don't forget that no Mainline train crew sign 231's. From a train crew training perspective it would be better to release 150's for Maesteg/Ebbw Vale/Cheltenham services that generally cope as 2 cars, with the odd 3 car 197 for busier services. They could even have a 150+153 3 car formation.
Once things have settled a bit more then train crew and units can be freed up for training.

Also a number of 150's will continue to be retired. So seeing 756's introduced doesn't automatically cascade 150's to mainline services.
756's are better off on TAM valley services which are electrified.

I can understand them wanting to get rid of the 150’s but surely at least 3 coach trains are needed on the Cheltenham services plus Ebbw Vale/ Maesteg?
I just can’t understand them sending 150’s for scrap given the present situation? The mainline crews will have to be trained for the 231’s eventually so they might as well crack on with it.

 

[John R]

I can understand them wanting to get rid of the 150’s but surely at least 3 coach trains are needed on the Cheltenham services plus Ebbw Vale/ Maesteg?
I just can’t understand them sending 150’s for scrap given the present situation? The mainline crews will have to be trained for the 231’s eventually so they might as well crack on with it.

Isn't the issue that the 150s are being withdrawn as they come to a very expensive scheduled maintenance point, which neither TfL nor owner of the stock feels is justified as they are going to go to scrap very shortly.

 

[Caaardiff]

Isn't the issue that the 150s are being withdrawn as they come to a very expensive scheduled maintenance point, which neither TfL nor owner of the stock feels is justified as they are going to go to scrap very shortly.

Exactly that. Their time is up.

 

[Hwnt52]

There are no masts up north of Llanishen apart from the few at Pontlottyn which were erected some months ago. If fact there is little evidence of any work at all apart from the conductor bar at Caerphilly. At the overbridge at Gilfach Fargoed there are signs warning of overhead electrification, but there is no evidence of any work at all. Nothing it appears has been done. The cynic in me might wonder if any work is ever going to be done, or will the whole scheme be cancelled north of Caerphilly.

 

[John R]

There are no masts up north of Llanishen apart from the few at Pontlottyn which were erected some months ago. If fact there is little evidence of any work at all apart from the conductor bar at Caerphilly. At the overbridge at Gilfach Fargoed there are signs warning of overhead electrification, but there is no evidence of any work at all. Nothing it appears has been done. The cynic in me might wonder if any work is ever going to be done, or will the whole scheme be cancelled north of Caerphilly.

Assuming the 756s can’t get from Llanishen to Rhymney and back on battery, that would mean the aim of decarbonisation of all the valley lines would not be achieved. (If they can, I’m sure much less wiring would have been installed throughout the valleys network).

 

[AdamWW]

There are no masts up north of Llanishen apart from the few at Pontlottyn which were erected some months ago. If fact there is little evidence of any work at all apart from the conductor bar at Caerphilly. At the overbridge at Gilfach Fargoed there are signs warning of overhead electrification, but there is no evidence of any work at all. Nothing it appears has been done. The cynic in me might wonder if any work is ever going to be done, or will the whole scheme be cancelled north of Caerphilly.

It looks as if the evening possessions (or at any rate the evening replacement of trains with buses) will come to an end some time in October.

It's taken well over a year of evening closures on the Rhymney Line to get as far as they have done already.

 

[positron]

There are no masts up north of Llanishen apart from the few at Pontlottyn which were erected some months ago. If fact there is little evidence of any work at all apart from the conductor bar at Caerphilly. At the overbridge at Gilfach Fargoed there are signs warning of overhead electrification, but there is no evidence of any work at all. Nothing it appears has been done. The cynic in me might wonder if any work is ever going to be done, or will the whole scheme be cancelled north of Caerphilly.

Interesting they also have warning signs up at crwys road over bridge. Where there won't be any electrification happening...

There are the holes for masts to attach to along the route so it's possible the piling is mostly done and it's just going to be some possessions to erect the masts and suddenly it'll look more complete.

I don't see them cancelling the project entirely it'd be politically very hard. I can see the scope maybe changing. Which has been happening the whole time with various new bits of catenary free sections or earthed sections. Possibly electrify to bargoed and delay the rest till the passing loop is in place?

 

[Caaardiff]

Interesting they also have warning signs up at crwys road over bridge. Where there won't be any electrification happening...

There are the holes for masts to attach to along the route so it's possible the piling is mostly done and it's just going to be some possessions to erect the masts and suddenly it'll look more complete.

I don't see them cancelling the project entirely it'd be politically very hard. I can see the scope maybe changing. Which has been happening the whole time with various new bits of catenary free sections or earthed sections. Possibly electrify to bargoed and delay the rest till the passing loop is in place?

There's wires up on the Coryton branch so surely that'll go to Queen St?

 

[MikePJ]

There's wires up on the Coryton branch so surely that'll go to Queen St?

There's an electrification diagram in the "Appendix C" document on the last project update. The wires stop a little short of Crwys Road - there'll be no wires into Queen St. Once the Coryton trains come off the wires they'll run on battery to Penarth and back.

 

[John R]

There's an electrification diagram in the "Appendix C" document on the last project update. The wires stop a little short of Crwys Road - there'll be no wires into Queen St. Once the Coryton trains come off the wires they'll run on battery to Penarth and back.

Is that the case? I thought any running south of Central was using the diesel?

 

[Caaardiff]

There's an electrification diagram in the "Appendix C" document on the last project update. The wires stop a little short of Crwys Road - there'll be no wires into Queen St. Once the Coryton trains come off the wires they'll run on battery to Penarth and back.

Interesting. Is that due to low bridges? I was under the impression the whole of the TAM line through Queen St and City line was to be electrified.

 

[John R]

Interesting. Is that due to low bridges? I was under the impression the whole of the TAM line through Queen St and City line was to be electrified.

As long as I’ve been following the project Queen St has not been due to be electrified.

 

[positron]

Queen street not being done is mostly due to complexity and the fact they can't do to central anyway (they don't own it). Cathays also has complexity because of the uni deciding a railways was the perfect location for highly sensitive brain scanning equipment...

There's a section from heath junction north to the tunnel, and east to coryton. And then another small section on the bay line. It's meant to continue from just past Caerphilly in chunks with various gaps all the way to Rhymney.

 

[John R]

Cathays also has complexity because of the uni deciding a railways was the perfect location for highly sensitive brain scanning equipment...

They must have needed their head examined...

 

[WesternBiker]

Queen street not being done is mostly due to complexity and the fact they can't do to central anyway (they don't own it). Cathays also has complexity because of the uni deciding a railways was the perfect location for highly sensitive brain scanning equipment...

Is the complexity of the "it can't be done" or the "now more complicated" variety? It seems extraordinary that something as important (but mundane) as electrification of railways could be scuppered by something like this.

 

[Last Hurrah]

Out of curiosity, how close to Cardiff University Cubic Brain Research facility (next to Cathays station), can overhead wiring go before it affects their sensitive computers ?

Heading in the direction of Queen St, the wires cross the A48 Eastern Avenue bridge then end shortly after between the nearby Wedal Road & Fairoak Road bridges, which is still some distance short of Queen St