No trains to call at Altnabreac for the foreseeable future

[skyhigh]

I see they've reduced their GoFundMe begging page from £30, 000 to £10, 000

And reduced their list of aims to:

1. Get a legal team to help me – get an urgent interdict (UK equivalent of
injunction)
2. Get a surveyor
3. Interdict Network Rail

Shame really, as it would have been interesting to see them sue the Scottish land registry and BTP.

 

[InOban]

Surely if they disagree with the online map, then they're going to have to sue the lawyers who acted on their behalf when they bought the property, since that map is part of the title deeds.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely if they disagree with the online map, then they're going to have to sue the lawyers who acted on their behalf when they bought the property, since that map is part of the title deeds.

Though that wouldn't mean the situation being changed in their favour, if they won (big if!) it wold just mean them being compensated for the land they didn't in fact buy.

If they don't own the platform etc, the only way for them to obtain ownership of it would be to agree to purchase it from whoever does own it. And they may not want to sell it.

 

[tspaul26]

If they don't own the platform etc, the only way for them to obtain ownership of it would be to agree to purchase it from whoever does own it. And they may not want to sell it.

This isn’t quite correct: there are other means of acquiring title which do not depend on a disposition by the true owner.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This isn’t quite correct: there are other means of acquiring title which do not depend on a disposition by the true owner.

Interesting, could you clarify? Are you thinking of adverse possession, which I don't think they'd have much of a case for unless it works differently in Scotland?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Surely if they disagree with the online map, then they're going to have to sue the lawyers who acted on their behalf when they bought the property, since that map is part of the title deeds.

My suspicion- and it is just a suspicion- is that at some point in the past the cottage and railway platform/track were part of the same parcel of land and shared a common owner. This would make a lot of sense, being a railway cottage on a railway station. The new owners of the cottage seem to believe that because it was once a shared parcel of land then that means it still should be. This does appear to be a sincerely held belief.

I'm not a solicitor and I'm pretty clueless about Scottish land law. My opinion is based on my experience from conveyancing as how it works in England and Wales with mandatory registration. However from the online record available publicly I don't see how that belief can be correct. Being incorrect doesn't (necessarily) mean they are being malicious.

As for negligence, the first thing I always did was talk to my client and ensure that the title plan accurately reflected what they thought they were buying. It usually did but occasionally it did not; typically that happened when the property had a parking space under a separate register entry (common with flats for a while) and the vendor either forgot or "forgot" to include that parking space in the transaction.

If they don't own the platform etc, the only way for them to obtain ownership of it would be to agree to purchase it from whoever does own it. And they may not want to sell it.

I'm not sure if this applies in Scotland but in England and Wales you can acquire "possessory title", i.e. you never formally acquired the land but you've been in possession of it for a period of time (this is 12 years in England and Wales). The central registration of land now makes it a lot harder to obtain possessory title because the registered owner of the land is known, but it is easier with unregistered land.

I used to see it most often where houses that backed on to an old railway line moved their garden fences ten feet so as to bring the land of the old railway line into their property. Was always fun to unravel, and I was always happy to refer that upwards to my senior solicitor!

 

[tspaul26]

Interesting, could you clarify? Are you thinking of adverse possession, which I don't think they'd have much of a case for unless it works differently in Scotland?

What do you wish to know (without diverting this thread into a treatise on Scots property law)?

Adverse possession is more an English concept. Scots law is different, procedurally and substantively.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What do you wish to know (without diverting this thread into a treatise on Scots property law)?

Adverse possession is more an English concept. Scots law is different, procedurally and substantively.

How, in this specific case, could they obtain ownership of the platform etc without the actual owner selling to them? Not interested in general law, just as it applies to this situation, and at a very high level.

 

[tspaul26]

How, in this specific case, could they obtain ownership of the platform etc without the actual owner selling to them? Not interested in general law, just as it applies to this situation, and at a very high level.

Something called a disposition a non domino which acts as a foundation writ for a new prescriptive progress.

Ten years would need to elapse from that writ being registered to crystallise title.

 

[Mcv378]

Has work been able to resume on reopening Altnabraec station yet?

 

[InOban]

I would assume that when the Highland Railway Co. was building the line in 1874 the whole line of route was bought as a single purchase from whoever owned the area; this would have included the site of the house, needed because there was originally a passing loop. After it was de-staffed, the house was surplus and at some point BR must have separated out the land that was no longer part of the active railway. How well this was carried out, in particular the wayleaves and other access rights and maintenance duties, I don't know. The boundaries would have been described and drawn on a plan but probably in quite thick lines.

Was the previous owner ( of the tire dumping) the first owner after BR.? Or has it passed through others before her?

 

[3RDGEN]

Has work been able to resume on reopening Altnabraec station yet?

NR have started construction of a new "path" to access the platform and it appears it will be behind the current tree line down the right-hand side of the driveway as you approach the station, you can see it in one of the recent YouTube video's. The new path appears to be on land North East? of the disputed area however it is accessed via the disputed area so not sure how it resolves the issue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Something called a disposition a non domino which acts as a foundation writ for a new prescriptive progress.

Ten years would need to elapse from that writ being registered to crystallise title.

Thanks, it seems to be similar to adverse possession in concept but not quite, from a bit of Googling.

 

[tspaul26]

In legal terms the concepts are very different so comparisons to the English law of adverse possession are liable to mislead.

 

[jonnycoleraine]

This isn’t quite correct: there are other means of acquiring title which do not depend on a disposition by the true owner.

None of which will apply here.

Simply someone wasting NR time and money.

Next

 

[Magicake]

NR have started construction of a new "path" to access the platform and it appears it will be behind the current tree line down the right-hand side of the driveway as you approach the station, you can see it in one of the recent YouTube video's. The new path appears to be on land North East? of the disputed area however it is accessed via the disputed area so not sure how it resolves the issue.

Appears from some of the latest videos that the police have satisfied themselves that the disputed land does belong to NR and that they have been in attendance during the construction to prevent them from being stopped from their works (as that would be aggravated trespass by the homeowner).

Presumably network rail are hoping that in time the homeowner will get used to them using this new path without police present each time.

 

[ScottGallagher]

If and when the access route is built, realistically how often are NR workers going to be up there and what would they be doing? As mentioned up thread it's hardly Clapham Junction in terms of maintenance levels.

 

[Llanigraham]

Been looking at some of their more recent video "efforts" and one of these days their actions towards BTP are going to go too far and they will get arrested! I suspect it was nearly at that stage at the end of last week.

 

[ScarboroGull]

In one of the recent videos the homeowner gives a tour of the new access path through the land to the north east of the Station Cottage. He also shows compost bins and a washing line on that land. It is suggested that the previous owner of Station Cottage used that land in a similar fashion. Is it possible that the owner (NR?) of that land failed to enforce their rights in that land over the years, allowing current and past owners if Station Cottage to believe that they can start claiming it as their own?

 

[rower40]

Something called a disposition a non domino which acts as a foundation writ for a new prescriptive progress.

The downside is that you then can't get pizzas delivered there.

 

[greatkingrat]

The downside is that you then can't get pizzas delivered there.

They would be cold by the time they were delivered anyway!

 

[Recessio]

In one of the recent videos the homeowner gives a tour of the new access path through the land to the north east of the Station Cottage. He also shows compost bins and a washing line on that land. It is suggested that the previous owner of Station Cottage used that land in a similar fashion. Is it possible that the owner (NR?) of that land failed to enforce their rights in that land over the years, allowing current and past owners if Station Cottage to believe that they can start claiming it as their own?

What's the rules on adverse possession under Scottish law?

 

[ScarboroGull]

This image is from NW's planning application 23-00459-PNO for request stop equipment etc at Altnabreac. It shows boundaries (at 1:1250 scale) that differ from those on the smaller scale maps from LRoS and suggests the boundary of the Station Cottage title lies along two sides of the building - greatly at odds with with what the owner claims. What is the veracity of NR's ownership maps?

 

[tspaul26]

What's the rules on adverse possession under Scottish law?

Scots law doesn’t really have an equivalent concept to the English law of adverse possession (as far as the real right in heritage is concerned).

As a matter of general principle, purported ownership of land would have to be founded on certain types of writ in combination with varying periods of possession of the land in question.

 

[norbitonflyer]

This image is from NW's planning application 23-00459-PNO for request stop equipment etc at Altnabreac. It shows boundaries (at 1:1250 scale) that differ from those on the smaller scale maps from LRoS and suggests the boundary of the Station Cottage title lies along two sides of the building - greatly at odds with with what the owner claims. What is the veracity of NR's ownership maps?

The owners argumebnts always use the superpostion of boundary lines on to satellite images, but measurements drawn from satellite images can be inaccurate because of the foreshortening effect (the satellite may not have been directly overhead when the image was taken) so are not reliable for scaling.

 

[tspaul26]

This image is from NW's planning application 23-00459-PNO for request stop equipment etc at Altnabreac. It shows boundaries (at 1:1250 scale) that differ from those on the smaller scale maps from LRoS and suggests the boundary of the Station Cottage title lies along two sides of the building - greatly at odds with with what the owner claims. What is the veracity of NR's ownership maps?
View attachment 166164

This is a planning application location plan, not an “ownership map” (whatever that might mean), so the question of ‘veracity’ is irrelevant.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is there not a relevant body within the Scottish Government who could take action over the situation prevailing at Altnabreac?

 

[Elwyn]

It appears to me that a solution is in hand. I suspect that Network Rail have reached agreement with whoever owns the nearby estate to put in a new access path. Work appears to have started and once it is complete, they will presumably re-open the station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It appears to me that a solution is in hand. I suspect that Network Rail have reached agreement with whoever owns the nearby estate to put in a new access path. Work appears to have started and once it is complete, they will presumably re-open the station.

Wasn't it mentioned above that they were also trying to stop that?

 

[dosxuk]

Yes, they seem to also be laying claim to the actual platform.