London Midland to Run Birmingham Moor Street - Gloucester?

[sonic2009]

A 170 was on test yesterday Worcester-Cheltenham Spa, now rumours have been mooted that London Midland from December will be running this new service via Kidderminster...

Now the only reasons the 170 was on test would be for route learning, but i would assume this is extra training for drivers as the last friday night service from Birmingham New Street Extends to Gloucester, and have route refresh when they do that line.

So has anyone else heard anything about this, and maybe someone who Works within London Midland could confirm about the 170 on test yesterday.

 

[YorkshireBear]

A 170 was on test yesterday Worcester-Cheltenham Spa, now rumours have been mooted that London Midland from December will be running this new service via Kidderminster...

Now the only reasons the 170 was on test would be for route learning, but i would assume this is extra training for drivers as the last friday night service from Birmingham New Street Extends to Gloucester, and have route refresh when they do that line.

So has anyone else heard anything about this, and maybe someone who Works within London Midland could confirm about the 170 on test yesterday.

is this a route that the new 172's will be taking over? because the 170's have been out on 172 routes as braking tests?

 

[sprinterguy]

is this a route that the new 172's will be taking over? because the 170's have been out on 172 routes as braking tests?

No, there are currently no London Midland operated services south of Worcester towards Cheltenham. The 172s will be busily engaged on the Snow Hill local lines between Stratford, Dorridge, Stourbridge, Kidderminster and Worcester.

 

[sonic2009]

Only the One Fridays Only Service

1V30 BHM TO GCR FRIDAYS ONLY VIA BROMSGROVE

 

[sprinterguy]

Only the One Fridays Only Service

1V30 BHM TO GCR FRIDAYS ONLY VIA BROMSGROVE

hock: Well I never, I didn't know about that!

 

[sonic2009]

hock: Well I never, I didn't know about that!

It's been running for quite a while.

 

[Smethwickian]

Only the One Fridays Only Service

1V30 BHM TO GCR FRIDAYS ONLY VIA BROMSGROVE

It used to run via Stourbridge, I believe, which was an interesting appearance in the timetable.

Does this particular weekly outing serve some useful function to move stock or staff somewhere? Or is it packed with lucrative late-evening travellers heading for the bright lights of Gloucester? Or is it just one of those odds-and-sods kept on an operator's books (like Chiltern's single foray to and from Paddington, or its late-night arrival into Oxford) to keep up route knowledge?

 

[Masbroughlad]

Thought there was a regular service at the start of the franchise that was removed after intervention from......you guessed it DfT??? (Or did LM just decide to withdraw it?)

 

[sonic2009]

It used to run via Stourbridge, I believe, which was an interesting appearance in the timetable.

Does this particular weekly outing serve some useful function to move stock or staff somewhere? Or is it packed with lucrative late-evening travellers heading for the bright lights of Gloucester? Or is it just one of those odds-and-sods kept on an operator's books (like Chiltern's single foray to and from Paddington, or its late-night arrival into Oxford) to keep up route knowledge?

It's was running via Stourbridge in the Last timetable due to the enginerring works at Bromsgrove at Night..
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Thought there was a regular service at the start of the franchise that was removed after intervention from......you guessed it DfT??? (Or did LM just decide to withdraw it?)

It used to be a 2 hourly WOS - GCR service but it was withdrawn 2 years ago.. Correct me if i'm wrong.. London Midland i think run it to get a share of the renuve Birmingham - Gloucester and Route Knowledge.

 

[anthony263]

There was rumour going about That London Midland wanted to run a service from Worcester - Bristol TM back last december , thus providing a service between Gloucester & Bristol TM every 30 minutes. Didnt come off though.

I travelled on the London Midland service between Gloucester & worcester, problem i think was the service was iregular and didnt run through to Bristol.

 

[tbtc]

Its one of those awkward "fault lines" between franchsies, but I think that if anyone is to run a bi-hourly Gloucester - Worcester service then it ought to be FGW (making their current service hourly from Bristol to Worcester).

The previous LM service was well intentioned, but it didn't slot well inbetween the FGW service (the two trains every two hours were something like 30/40 and 80/90 minutes apart, rather than clockface hourly)

 

[anthony263]

I think if London Midland had enough units they should run a hourly Great Malvern - Bristol TM service with FGW running an additional hourly service From Gloucester to Bristol thus providing a 30 minutly interval between Gloucester & Bristol TM.

A good idea especially if they use a class 170 which has a much higher top speed than the FGW class 150's which are mostly used on the route.

 

[sprinterguy]

I think if London Midland had enough units they should run a hourly Great Malvern - Bristol TM service with FGW running an additional hourly service From Gloucester to Bristol thus providing a 30 minutly interval between Gloucester & Bristol TM.

A good idea especially if they use a class 170 which has a much higher top speed than the FGW class 150's which are mostly used on the route.

I’m with tbtc in thinking that such a service would work better as part of the Great Western franchise, as it’s within their operating territory whereas for London Midland it’s really out on a limb. As you say though, it’s an issue of rolling stock: If FGWs’ Network Turbos get pushed out to other areas of the franchise following Oxford & Newbury electrification then there’s plenty of scope for such a venture. I definitely think that Worcester to Bristol is a good idea though.

 

[Zoe]

I think London Midland encroaches too far into former GWR territory. Worcester and Droitwich at least should be FGW stations with FGW running the service from Hereford to Birmingham.

 

[mumrar]

I think London Midland encroaches too far into former GWR territory. Worcester and Droitwich at least should be FGW stations with FGW running the service from Hereford to Birmingham.

What does former GWR territory have to do with anything? Are London Midland already not heavily encroaching of former GWR territory by running all the services via Snow Hill? Shall we give them to FGW too?

 

[Zoe]

What does former GWR territory have to do with anything? Are London Midland already not heavily encroaching of former GWR territory by running all the services via Snow Hill? Shall we give them to FGW too?

The McNulty report talked about in the future having infrastructure concessions aligned with TOCs. The Network Rail Western Route is with some exceptions most notably the Chiltern route) close to the former GWR area. Worcester and Droitwich are certainly within the Western route. It is possible that Worcester and Droitwich could be transferred to the LNW(S) route though. I don't see why when Central was split the Hereford to Birmingham service couldn't have gone to FGW. London Midland was essentialy the commuter services from Euston but the dft decided to add former Central services to the franchise. Actually I would like to see the Chiltern routes go to the Western franchise, it is one way of reducing the number of franchises but I know this is not very likely.

 

[sprinterguy]

The McNulty report talked about in the future having infrastructure concessions aligned with TOCs. The Network Rail Western Route is with some exceptions most notably the Chiltern route) close to the former GWR area. Worcester and Droitwich are certainly within the Western route. It is possible that Worcester and Droitwich could be transferred to the LNW(S) route though. I don't see why when Central was split the Hereford to Birmingham service couldn't have gone to FGW. London Midland was essentialy the commuter services from Euston but the dft decided to add former Central services to the franchise. Actually I would like to see the Chiltern routes go to the Western franchise, it is one way of reducing the number of franchises but I know this is not very likely.

London Midland are also all the local services around the West Midlands, and the Birmingham to Shrewsbury service (which admittedly would sit better with ATW) which came from the Central franchise. If anything, the Hereford service would sit better with Crosscountry given that they’ve inherited the rest of Centrals’ longer distance routes through New Street, but it’s just fine where it is with LM.

There’s no need to introduce another “face” into New Street in the form of FGW: I’m sure at the time it was said that the way the Central franchise was carved up was intended to consolidate the number of TOCs using New Street and reduce conflicts between different operators.

 

[Zoe]

There’s no need to introduce another “face” into New Street in the form of FGW: I’m sure at the time it was said that the way the Central franchise was carved up was intended to consolidate the number of TOCs using New Street and reduce conflicts between different operators.

I'd have merged Silverlink into Virgin and Chiltern into FGW. XC services could either be run as separate services to Birmingham or run jointly for example a Plymouth to Leeds service could be crewed by FGW as far as Birmingham and EMT from Birmingham to Leeds.

 

[IanXC]

. If anything, the Hereford service would sit better with Crosscountry given that they’ve inherited the rest of Centrals’ longer distance routes through New Street, but it’s just fine where it is with LM./QUOTE]

Birmingham-Hereford could have been routed to Moor Street and given to whoever got the Snow Hill routes... Likely LM anyway haha! But could easily have been FGW or Chiltern

 

[tbtc]

the Birmingham to Shrewsbury service (which admittedly would sit better with ATW)

If anything, the Hereford service would sit better with Crosscountry

There’s no need to introduce another “face” into New Street in the form of FGW

Agreed on all three points.

Operationally I liked the idea of Stansted - Birmingham moving to EMT (who run services at Ely, Peterborough, Melton Mowbray and Leicester and manage some stations on this route), but the complications of having an additional TOC at New Street is the reason I'm less convinced about this idea nowadays.
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Birmingham-Hereford could have been routed to Moor Street and given to whoever got the Snow Hill routes... Likely LM anyway haha! But could easily have been FGW or Chiltern

Hmm, would it work to give Chiltern all services on the line from Marylebone to Worcester (via Leamingston Spa, Moor Street etc) and on to Hereford.

Trouble is, it'd mean no services from Droitwich to Bromsgrove/ New Street, which may upset a certain poster on here...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Trouble is, it'd mean no services from Droitwich to Bromsgrove/ New Street, which may upset a certain poster on here...

I agree with the rest of what you say, but just wanted to adda to the above!

I would give Chiltern the Snow Hill lines and Stourbridge shuttle, and focus everything from Worcester to just Snow Hill / Moor St. trouble is, do that and Bromsgrove loses its only regular service, unless you rerun the existing New St-Hereford as New St-Cheltenham and maybe further? Swindon?

 

[sprinterguy]

I agree with the rest of what you say, but just wanted to adda to the above!

I would give Chiltern the Snow Hill lines and Stourbridge shuttle, and focus everything from Worcester to just Snow Hill / Moor St. trouble is, do that and Bromsgrove loses its only regular service, unless you rerun the existing New St-Hereford as New St-Cheltenham and maybe further? Swindon?

Bromsgrove is seeing a complete station redevelopment as well as the extension of electrification from Longbridge in the CP5 period (hopefully), so it'll become part of the Cross City line commuter service (Meaning LM is going to need some additional EMUs: Be it the rest of the 323s when Northern gets 319s or 319s from Thameslink allowing LMs' 323s to move to Northern).

As such, I see no problem with having a single operator (Chiltern )running all the services out of Snow Hill, including moving the Hereford service over that way. It makes good sense to me.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Bromsgrove is seeing a complete station redevelopment as well as the extension of electrification from Longbridge in the CP5 period (hopefully), so it'll become part of the Cross City line commuter service (Meaning LM is going to need some additional EMUs: Be it the rest of the 323s when Northern gets 319s or 319s from Thameslink allowing LMs' 323s to move to Northern).

As such, I see no problem with having a single operator (Chiltern )running all the services out of Snow Hill, including moving the Hereford service over that way. It makes good sense to me.

Cheers, I didn't know the situation of that ATM, as the station was meant to be rebuilt a while back, and Bromsgrove's MP went a bit funny over it.

 

[Zoe]

Why can't you just merge Chiltern into FGW in the long term (Chiltern have a 20 year franchise so wouldn't be easy to change it now) with FGW running all services through Snow Hill? One TOC for all Worcester services.

 

[clarkster]

To add to the mix,video of 170507 on a route learner at Gloucester at 17.15 hours on Wednesday June 16th,promptly returning northwards

http://youtu.be/Sm-cV-hww-8

cheers
Clarkster

 

[sprinterguy]

Why can't you just merge Chiltern into FGW in the long term (Chiltern have a 20 year franchise so wouldn't be easy to change it now) with FGW running all services through Snow Hill? One TOC for all Worcester services.

I think because I like the idea of Chiltern operating a stand alone "corridor" and being able to focus their attention on that, whereas First Great Western already operate over a massive area and I'm honestly not particularly keen on their standards of train service. It'd be stretching an already "thin" operator even thinner by asking them to take on Chiltern as well.

Geographically however, your proposal does make sense; as can be seen from the imminent absorbtion of C2C into the Greater Anglia franchise stand alone corridors aren't favoured by the DfT at present who are looking to consolidate the number of TOCs.

Perhaps if it was someone else running the Greater Western franchise, say GoVia, then I would be more inclined to agree with a takeover of Chiltern by GW.

 

[anthony263]

To add to the mix,video of 170507 on a route learner at Gloucester at 17.15 hours on Wednesday June 16th,promptly returning northwards

http://youtu.be/Sm-cV-hww-8

cheers
Clarkster

Had an email from one of my freinds saying that London Midland were looking at running a Kidderminster - Gloucester service from december 2011 and that is also what is being said on some other railway forums.

Not sure if its true or not, wouldnt London Midland have put out a press release or something?

 

[Class172]

Hmm, would it work to give Chiltern all services on the line from Marylebone to Worcester (via Leamingston Spa, Moor Street etc) and on to Hereford.

Trouble is, it'd mean no services from Droitwich to Bromsgrove/ New Street, which may upset a certain poster on here...

And that certain poster has arrived Now I like the idea of Chiltern getting the Snow Hill lines up to Worcester (as mentioned in my controversial thread!). But I think I can represent the Worcester and Droitwich on this - they want the New St services; have you seen how popular they are - it's the quickest route and many people go from University to Worcestershire - now this would be very unpopular.

I'm amazed that people are talking about Droitwich Spa and Worcester without my intervention

What I'd do is give Snow Hill lines to Chiltern and use LM 172s for. Hereford services can go to chiltern also to run via Snow Hill

To resolve the Bromsgrove-Worcester problem. Introduce a BHM-Worcester-Hereford/Gloucester service operated by XC as an extension of XC's B'ham-Nottingham service

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Had an email from one of my freinds saying that London Midland were looking at running a Kidderminster - Gloucester service from december 2011 and that is also what is being said on some other railway forums.

Not sure if its true or not, wouldnt London Midland have put out a press release or something?

I assume they will when they are 100% positive that it is going ahead, driver training, DafT approval etc; it would like bad if they even proposed it but then backed down.

 

[sonic2009]

To add to the mix,video of 170507 on a route learner at Gloucester at 17.15 hours on Wednesday June 16th,promptly returning northwards

http://youtu.be/Sm-cV-hww-8

cheers
Clarkster

Same unit that I saw at Cheltenham Spa Yesterday Afternoon.. around 1211. so what's the purpouse of this run?