Class 376 refurbishment 2025/2026

[Russel]

That link doesn't work for me.

It works for me, try this https://x.com/SteveWhiteRail/status/1711735969840324778

I had my first ride on a 376 a couple of weeks ago from Waterloo East to Charing Cross, considering where they work and how old they are, I expected them to be in a much worse condition.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It works for me, try this https://x.com/SteveWhiteRail/status/1711735969840324778

I had my first ride on a 376 a couple of weeks ago from Waterloo East to Charing Cross, considering where they work and how old they are, I expected them to be in a much worse condition.

Great thanks

 

[Class 466]

Refurbishment is a stretch with this project - last I heard it was all now being done in-house with a vinyl exterior livery and just a change of seat moquette.

 

[Geogregor]

Refurbishment is a stretch with this project - last I heard it was all now being done in-house with a vinyl exterior livery and just a change of seat moquette.

In fact we could just call it glorified deep clean (which they didn't seem to have for years).

Not installing aircon is a joke, those units are unbearable in the summer. Networkers are not much better but at least they might eventually be replaced (or will fall to bits by themselves)

 

[Mikey C]

I imagine the uncertainty about their longer term future might have counted against installing aircon. Will it just be the Networkers that are replaced, or will the new fleet also replace the 376s (and indeed the 707s)?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

That is class 376, majority of which is in bad shape indeed.

Still, not as bad as the Networkers.

Metro operations seems like unwanted child to whoever is running the SE. It does feel like that now under government control but it was the same when it was run as private franchise. Management concentrates on the mainline services as they see them as the main income source.

Sounds like Network SouthEast in the 80s. O, if only there was an operator solely tasked with operating metro services in London that can run them. Some kind of “Underground” but for trains that run, you know, over the ground. I don’t know, perhaps I’ve had too much Christmas sherry…

 

[Recessio]

Not installing air conditioning is ridiculous. It was bad enough they were ordered without it when all other Electrostars have it, but to then not rectify it in a refurb...

 

[ScotGG]

Yep they're truly awful in the spring and summer. The Networkers can get a draft with air vents and drafts from windows hitting solid panels near the doors helping to circulate the air which makes certain areas tolerable but that doesn't work on the 376s owing to how drafts flow in the small openings and type of fittings/panel to deflect air (or not). There's no respite anywhere.

They should easily have another 20 years life left if not with SE then Southern Metro.

 

[Mikey C]

They should easily have another 20 years life left if not with SE then Southern Metro.

Will they though? Nobody knows whether the Networkers replacements will also replace the 376s, and if they do will Southern need them? If Southeastern get a total replacement fleet, then the 707s will also become spare, and they'd be a nice fit with Southern with their commonality with the 700s.

 

[superalbs]

Some mock-ups of the new interior were posted last year for those interested

x.com

x.com

"Full interior and exterior refresh funded by the vehicle owner. No money for air con (sorry) but they will look so much better! We are working through design and procurement now. Work will commence in 2024 "

 

[RealTrains07]

If they are going to the effort of re-painting the grab rails. Why not just paint them SE Blue? Makes no sense

 

[43096]

If they are going to the effort of re-painting the grab rails. Why not just paint them SE Blue? Makes no sense

Perhaps the orange provides more contrast with the seating and flooring, so is better for those with reduced eyesight?

 

[Class 466]

If they are going to the effort of re-painting the grab rails. Why not just paint them SE Blue? Makes no sense

A way to make the lack of repaint on the 707s from Orange look like it was done on purpose rather than cost grounds.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

A way to make the lack of repaint on the 707s from Orange look like it was done on purpose rather than cost grounds.

Which is extremely ironic, as the they’re now going to have painted thirty trains’ grabrails after all… just this way they have two fleet with grabrails in the wrong colour. Oh, and there’s actually a handful more 376s than 707s, so the cost will actually be greater.

 

[Russel]

How many normal passengers are going to notice or care about two separate fleets having different colour handrails?

 

[RealTrains07]

How many normal passengers are going to notice or care about two separate fleets having different colour handrails?

Many wont even still it looks poor on SE’s part as it shows they still arent prepared to properly invest in the maintenance of their own trains.

Especially with the poor state the 376s as well as 465s are in currently.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Many wont even still it looks poor on SE’s part as it shows they still arent prepared to properly invest in the maintenance of their own trains.

Especially with the poor state the 376s as well as 465s are in currently.

Well yes, it's like the SWR 450s, they look poor with the orange handrails which are completely off brand, unlike for example the blue ones on 701s.

 

[ScottGallagher]

The turquoise flooring in these units has always puzzled me even for Connex it wasn't on brand.

 

[Doomotron]

The turquoise flooring in these units has always puzzled me even for Connex it wasn't on brand.

It was the standard lino colour for Connex. It could be found in the 375s around the accessible toilet IIRC.

 

[778]

Sounds like Network SouthEast in the 80s. O, if only there was an operator solely tasked with operating metro services in London that can run them. Some kind of “Underground” but for trains that run, you know, over the ground. I don’t know, perhaps I’ve had too much Christmas sherry…

Would you be happy with 100% longitudinal seating?

 

[Russel]

Would you be happy with 100% longitudinal seating?

That doesn't have to be the case, remember the S8 stock isn't 100% longitudinal, neither was the class 172.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Would you be happy with 100% longitudinal seating?

That’s such a bizarre thing to ask. Surely you’re not so naive as to think London Overground automatically means longitudinal seats purely because their present stock have them. Virgin Trains didn’t go and automatically put Pendolinos and Voyagers on East Coast back in 2015, did they?

 

[Doomotron]

That’s such a bizarre thing to ask. Surely you’re not so naive as to think London Overground automatically means longitudinal seats purely because their present stock have them.

Except that every train in the current Overground fleet has longitudinal seats, and out of the three types of train introduced by them, only one of them didn't have longitudinal seating - and that one train has been replaced.

In the hopefully unlikely event the Overground takes over the SE metro services, if the Class 376s were to be kept it would be plausible (but not guaranteed of course) that longitudinal seating would be added in the event a full refurbishment.

 

[ScotGG]

TfL have normally put in longitudinal seating across their modes where trains have already reached maximum length. Not the case for SE Metro where barely any 12-car services run.

Also if they didn't do for the Elizabeth line I doubt they would for any LO takeover. 376s are already high capacity units with longitudinal at the end of trains and large standing areas in the vestibule.

 

[brad465]

I imagine the uncertainty about their longer term future might have counted against installing aircon. Will it just be the Networkers that are replaced, or will the new fleet also replace the 376s (and indeed the 707s)?

I doubt the 707s will be replaced given how much SE have promoted them, combined with their relative newness. 376s however could go as they're older, but I don't recall the tender size (max 640 carriages?) being large enough to do this. 640 would replace all the Networkers in service still with 94 additional carriages spare, but the number of 376 carriages is almost double this (180).

 

[43066]

Yep they're truly awful in the spring and summer. The Networkers can get a draft with air vents and drafts from windows hitting solid panels near the doors helping to circulate the air which makes certain areas tolerable but that doesn't work on the 376s owing to how drafts flow in the small openings and type of fittings/panel to deflect air (or not). There's no respite anywhere.

They should easily have another 20 years life left if not with SE then Southern Metro.

Totally agree. Having commuted on SE’s metro routes for many years now, 376s are by far and away their worst stock in hot weather. The Networkers were designed with decent sized hopper windows, whereas the 376 body shell was designed for air conditioning.

Very disappointing that no a/c is being retrofitted, and adds insult to the injury of them not being fitted with it to begin with for reasons that were proved to be false when 378s came in, and indeed many other fleets since (at least they’re being honest about it being down to lack of cash). Connex/SET claimed it was because air conditioning doesn’t work on metro trains!

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Would you be happy with 100% longitudinal seating?

Well on the Metro services it wouldn't be that bad.

 

[Mikey C]

I doubt the 707s will be replaced given how much SE have promoted them, combined with their relative newness. 376s however could go as they're older, but I don't recall the tender size (max 640 carriages?) being large enough to do this. 640 would replace all the Networkers in service still with 94 additional carriages spare, but the number of 376 carriages is almost double this (180).

Going forward, having to operate 3 completely separate metro fleets for 20 years would be ridiculous though. It's messy now, with 3 different types, one with toilets and 2 without, one with A/C and 2 without.

 

[Geogregor]

Going forward, having to operate 3 completely separate metro fleets for 20 years would be ridiculous though. It's messy now, with 3 different types, one with toilets and 2 without, one with A/C and 2 without.

SE metro fleet composition is a total joke. It should be simplified by proper total replacement.

But this being unloved SE-land we will stay as dumping ground of things nobody else wants for years to come...

 

[ScotGG]

One of the above posts reminded me that the tender potentially didn't even cover a like-for-like Networker replacement did it let alone the 376s and 707s? I know it was for a range of trains but the low end was, well, pretty low. And at the high end not huge to replace everything?

I think the 376s and 707s will stay in addition to a Networker replacement. The treasury won't want to underwrite wholesale replacement and the days of cheap finance in the 2010s are long gone when we saw wholesale replacements elsewhere.

SE Metro never seems to get much luck. The Networker orders in the 1990s were cut back due to a recession back then. Now we're in a time of sluggish economy and high borrowing costs and that could well hamper any order.