Peterborough? That's nowhere near the route of HS2.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
HS2 Old Oak Common
- Thread starter kevin_roche
- Start date
Peterborough? That's nowhere near the route of HS2.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Trainman40083
Established Member
I doubt any HS2 works is taking place anywhere near Peterborough.
They were not! Even the western one is a long outside walk across a road. The other one is over half a mile away!
But the whole public realm of the area is due to be comprehensively redeveloped. Comparing now to 2030 onwards isn’t really helpful.
Nottingham59
Established Member
I reckon a pedestrian walkway from the concourse of the HS2 station to the West London line over the throat of the EL depot would be 550 metres. Less if there were access up from the London end of the HS2 platforms.
Compare any of the distances (closenesses?) of some part of HS2OOC to any of the stations (existing or possible) on any of the many surrounding existing lines with those between Heathrow 'terminals' (let alone more remote 'stands').
Dr_Paul
Established Member
- Joined
- 3 Sep 2013
- Messages
- 1,472
That's a bit of an exaggeration! A couple of hundred yards, I would reckon. No further than the distances between the three West Hampstead stations, or from some Underground platforms to the main-line stations upstairs.
It isn't. It's over 1km door to door. Post 665 above shows how far it is in a more direct route, which isn't very likely to be built
Nottingham59
Established Member
And only 300m from the OOC concourse to the North London Line to Richmond ...
Again, much less if there are escalators up from the west end of the HS2 platforms.
Again, much less if there are escalators up from the west end of the HS2 platforms.
Which there won't be... And only makes a difference if you are at the back of the train anyway
Which there could be added (is there room?); if there is enough 'demand'?
Passengers will get to know, and move to the right doors to exit, like commuters do?
Does seem like a massive oversight, especially given that accessibility to the railway is a major concern for both passengers and something that is being championed by the rail industry at the moment.
Railwaysceptic
Established Member
- Joined
- 6 Nov 2017
- Messages
- 1,569
The previous thread I've referred to prompted me to walk the distance along the adjacent canal. I did it in six minutes and I'm an old man, so your estimations are about right. Obviously some kind of people mover/travelator would reduce the time considerably.
Clearly, the only answer is to have a mini-circle line going between all the stations in the area, stopping at Old Oak Common, East Acton, Old Oak Common Lane, and Hythe Road.
I propose a Luton DART style arrangement, but perhaps a little more expensive - say 50 quid for a complete loop of the mini-circle. This would be convenient for passengers.
If necessary, further mini-circles can be added to improve connectivity.
I propose a Luton DART style arrangement, but perhaps a little more expensive - say 50 quid for a complete loop of the mini-circle. This would be convenient for passengers.
If necessary, further mini-circles can be added to improve connectivity.
Only 300m? Only?! And all outside, and crossing a road. That’s not a connection, it’s a coincidence.
The important one is even further away.
Put the money toward a better Willesden Junction and a people mover.
It’s not in the consented plans, nor designed into the box, so would therefore need both doing. Whether it is right or not to provide, it is not at all straightforward given where we are.
Nottingham59
Established Member
If they build a new station on either line, I would expect at least a covered pedestrian walkway to the main OOC station, crossong over intervening roads and canals.
(But otherwise, I agree with you. The whole area between Old Oak Common and Willesden Junction should have been designed as a proper West London interchange from the start)
I would not suggest adding it now, with unacceptable consequences in terms of opening up claims for extra time, design and construction times,as well as further reputational cost, esp when 'up against it' already.
However, might something be added in later, despite the 'suboptimality', along with the necessary consideration of each possible 'connectional' opportunity, when possible and actual use of such connection will be better assessed, and possibly/ probably/ hopefully supported (or not) by data and the 'court of public opinion'?
I very much doubt it. It would cost an absolute fortune to punch a new route into a deep level active high speed railway, and you end up with another entrance that will skew all the ped flows on the main station. Also, you would need provision for the main line station too.
If a station is built on the North London Line, it will be connected from the main entrance, with a clear walking route.
Last edited:
Trainman40083
Established Member
One presumes that TfL would have to pay for that.
Nottingham59
Established Member
The main entrance is on the south side of the station.
One might hope that the station design has at least passive provision for a pedestrian entrance on the north side.
The main entrance is very clearly on the west side of the station, with a new transport interchange immendiately outside (bus station, taxi ranks, bike hire, oick up / drop off, and no parking) then a public park fronting on to Old Oak Lane.
Nottingham59
Established Member
Yes, you're right. All the promotional videos from HS2 show only access from south of the HS2 alignment, but there is road access from the west. Shown as TV9 in the plan below.
Apparently. the need for pedestrian and cycle access from the canal towpath has been identified in the Old Oak and Park Royal Development Corporation delivery plan' https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/opdc_infrastructure_delivery_plan_2021.pdf
"TP8:
Pedestrian and cycle bridge east of
Old Oak Common Station connecting
to southern towpath of Grand Union
Canal."
Unfortunately, TP8 is currently unfunded, and HS2 have recently applied to build a crew accommodation building on the land that would be needed for the bridge. See:
Maybe there's something in the pot...
pdf of Willesden/Old Oak development. (doc is quite large!)
It's old as there's no indication of the proposed West London Orbital station on Victoria Road.
Edited due to boob.
Yes all this chat about the WLL is moot when the easiest connection is clearly the NLL and same station interchanges in C. London are similar distances, let alone being approved OSIs (out of station interchanges).
To clarify, the main station building will be between the GWML and HS2, so on the south side of HS2, with the entrance and access etc on the west side - the road will be where TV11 is shown on the map
Nottingham59
Established Member
There are roads at both TV11 and TV9 (labelled "009-S8" and "station access road") in the HS2 design plans from: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ons-select-committee-2016-london-metropolitan
Quite how much provision there will be for pedestrians on these access roads is not that clear. And no obvious route for pedestrian access from the east.
But the WLL is the important one, connecting to Clapham and south London.
Which interchanges are similar even to the NLL trudge?
Look uo the more recent artists impressions. Loads of pedestrian access