end of the 'Jolly Fisherman' EMR to Skegness; what alternative options could EMR put in place?

[ChrisC]

No there isn’t. It’s Lincolnshire with the likes of Boston en-route. Many passengers are heading for cheap holidays at Butlins or around Ingoldmells. There are very few affluent areas close by.

Perhaps not affluent in comparison to many other parts of the country but there are some nicer places along the route away from Skegness and Boston. Sleaford, Heckington, Wainfleet, Ancaster etc all have nice surrounding areas. However, would anyone living in the better areas really want to use the line in summer even for local journeys, considering the overcrowding and some of the clientele who travel on them. I even avoid the Skegness trains just to travel between Nottingham and Grantham.

 

[dk1]

Perhaps not affluent in comparison to many other parts of the country but there are some nicer places along the route away from Skegness and Boston. Sleaford, Heckington, Wainfleet, Ancaster etc all have nice surrounding areas. However, would anyone living in the better areas really want to use the line in summer even for local journeys, considering the overcrowding and some of the clientele who travel on them. I even avoid the Skegness trains just to travel between Nottingham and Grantham.

Yes I had good experience of that last summer after staying in the town whilst visiting Heckington Windmill before ticking The Red Lion Skegness Spoon. Good to see revenue protection before boarding in the town.

 

[bunnahabhain]

The patronage for the fisherman has declined quite a bit since COVID, so I think it was the right decision given the issues with rolling stock availability

The decision is entirely driven by stock availability. The passenger numbers with the exception of during Covid (19/20, 20/21, 21/22) have been fairly static from 2010 through to 2025.

22/23 was the last year of a relatively normal service operating. Last year's specials were badly timed and sat at Skegness far later than they needed to be. In reality a proper timetable shake up would have been better with the two extra diagrams adding capacity throughout the day as opposed to running busy to Skegness and empty back because the holidaymakers had already left.

Aren't there intermediate stops in places with a better reputation?

No. It's all 100% Spaghetti and Chips Brigade.

 

[Clarence Yard]

That’s very poor. There are better intermediate places but most people use a car, especially on the Grantham to Boston corridor. The roads on that stretch are pretty good and it doesn’t take you long to get anywhere. If you are driving, Boston to Skeg is the bit that takes the time.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

156s and some 158s

There haven’t been 156s at EMR for over a year.

 

[AlastairFraser]

No. It's all 100% Spaghetti and Chips Brigade.

Fair enough

 

[class26]

Don’t think Butlins are cheap any more

Absolutely not cheap. The food and drink are total rip offs but the inmates there are captive

 

[dk1]

Absolutely not cheap. The food and drink are total rip offs but the inmates there are captive

Can they not jump on a bus to Ingoldmells?

 

[richardderby]

it seems that EMR are trying to quietly drop these extra services, hoping no one will notice, as they are short of rolling stock. The Skegness timetable needs a review, the direct (Grantham avoiding) line can take 20+ minutes off the journey, but EMR have favoured sending almost everything via Grantham, Jolly Fisherman excepted...

 

[Brubulus]

it seems that EMR are trying to quietly drop these extra services, hoping no one will notice, as they are short of rolling stock. The Skegness timetable needs a review, the direct (Grantham avoiding) line can take 20+ minutes off the journey, but EMR have favoured sending almost everything via Grantham, Jolly Fisherman excepted...

How many people are actually through passengers. I would suspect a decent portion of the train gets on or off at Grantham, and it's a crucial link for London services for Lincolnshire.

 

[Zomboid]

They could reduce demand by skipping Grantham though

 

[richardderby]

They could reduce demand by skipping Grantham though

yes but they should not be suppressing demand due to lack of rolling stock, the Jolly fishermen services were to get Derby / Nottingham folk to the coast quickly rather than intermediate towns..

 

[bunnahabhain]

yes but they should not be suppressing demand due to lack of rolling stock, the Jolly fishermen services were to get Derby / Nottingham folk to the coast quickly rather than intermediate towns..

If demand outstrips capacity, how else do you manage?

 

[richardderby]

If demand outstrips capacity, how else do you manage?

there must be sufficient rolling stock on Saturdays surely.. its not like its a weekday when these operate. otherwise, see if Stock can be procured from elsewhere rather than quietly dropping the service.

 

[30907]

there must be sufficient rolling stock on Saturdays surely.. its not like its a weekday when these operate. otherwise, see if Stock can be procured from elsewhere rather than quietly dropping the service.

Where is the nearest diesel stock spare on a Saturday? I don't think the MML has anything to spare, nor WM or Northern.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The days of spare stock on a Saturday are long gone, on the diesel railway at least!

 

[bunnahabhain]

there must be sufficient rolling stock on Saturdays surely.. its not like its a weekday when these operate. otherwise, see if Stock can be procured from elsewhere rather than quietly dropping the service.

If the Sidings are full of demic units where do you store this additional stock procured from elsewhere? The issue isn't lack of stock, it's lack of working stock.

 

[cactustwirly]

The days of spare stock on a Saturday are long gone, on the diesel railway at least!

Historically the EMT/R HSTs were lightly used on Saturdays, only 5 diagrams.
Weekdays and Sundays were 7 I think?
However with them gone the 222s are worked much harder

 

[Zomboid]

If the Sidings are full of demic units where do you store this additional stock procured from elsewhere? The issue isn't lack of stock, it's lack of working stock.

Wasn't it often the case that they'd drag the semi derelict stock out for the various summer Saturday specials, footexes etc?
That resource is now removing hair from chins and containing baked beans, and there's very little that's both usable and spare now.

 

[43096]

Historically the EMT/R HSTs were lightly used on Saturdays, only 5 diagrams.
Weekdays and Sundays were 7 I think?

At one point it was 8 diagrams weekdays with 6 on Saturdays (although one diagram was a booked swapout) and 7 on Sundays.

That gave the availability of sets to resource the Skegness Summer Saturday turns. That was one of the benefits of joining the East Mids bit of Central Trains with MML as it gave them an in-house resource rather than using hire-ins of manky Mark 2s, although it took EMT management's "can do" attitude to force it through with Network Rail (and production of evidence that HSTs had been to Skegness before!).

 

[Russel]

Did a railtour there last year. Seemed like a nice little resort - better than I was expecting.

To be fair, for a day out with the kids, it's great... I wouldn't stay overnight though, there isn't that much to do.

It's on my list to visit by train this summer to tick off the line, I've not done it since EMT HST days.

 

[yorksrob]

To be fair, for a day out with the kids, it's great... I wouldn't stay overnight though, there isn't that much to do.

It's on my list to visit by train this summer to tick off the line, I've not done it since EMT HST days.

Yes, I'd go there again, for a day trip.

 

[class26]

it seems that EMR are trying to quietly drop these extra services, hoping no one will notice, as they are short of rolling stock. The Skegness timetable needs a review, the direct (Grantham avoiding) line can take 20+ minutes off the journey, but EMR have favoured sending almost everything via Grantham, Jolly Fisherman excepted...

With the Trans Pennine upgrade they are saying to go quicker avoid going slowly. In other words you don`t need to upgrade to 125 mph at huge expense when going from 20 to 40 mph will achieve probably greater time savings. I wonder about various sections of the line such as the crawl out of Grantham. Does it really need to be 25 mph. It seems to take forever to reach the Nottingham line proper. As this is traversed twice each journey some time savings could be mad there perhaps ?
Then there is the "main line" after Boston which was fully relaid with track from the East Coast main Line a few years ago to enable HST`s to operate faster than the imposed 30 mph. Apparently this is good for 75 mph but retains its 60 mph limitdue to signal spacings. How much does it cost to move a few signals ? (Genuine question , I have no idea)

 

[bunnahabhain]

With the Trans Pennine upgrade they are saying to go quicker avoid going slowly. In other words you don`t need to upgrade to 125 mph at huge expense when going from 20 to 40 mph will achieve probably greater time savings. I wonder about various sections of the line such as the crawl out of Grantham. Does it really need to be 25 mph. It seems to take forever to reach the Nottingham line proper. As this is traversed twice each journey some time savings could be mad there perhaps ?
Then there is the "main line" after Boston which was fully relaid with track from the East Coast main Line a few years ago to enable HST`s to operate faster than the imposed 30 mph. Apparently this is good for 75 mph but retains its 60 mph limitdue to signal spacings. How much does it cost to move a few signals ? (Genuine question , I have no idea)

A lot, the plans for resignalling Skegness keep on getting thrown into the long grass. In theory Nottingham to Grantham was resignalled for 90mph but it has never been uprated higher than 75mph.

 

[Russel]

A lot, the plans for resignalling Skegness keep on getting thrown into the long grass. In theory Nottingham to Grantham was resignalled for 90mph but it has never been uprated higher than 75mph.

To be fair, given the rural nature and how it only sees one train per hour, I can't imagine Skegness is very high on the priority list.

Besides, doesn't it still have semaphores? Enjoy it while you can!