Bridge problem cardiff Central 20/4/25 route blocked Newport Cardiff

[Anonymous10]

Looks as if today is getting the same service pattern through Queen Street, i.e. half hourly between the Bay and Coryton and nothing else.

Southbound, Journeycheck is showing departures to Penarth running as normal (all the way to Penarth) with additional services leaving at exactly the same time running just to Queen Street (not the Bay) and also running.

Perhaps I'm just hopelessly optimistic but I'd have thought that by now things would have settled down enough that there would be the resources to start giving out correct information on the current service patterns.

If I wanted to head towards Central I'd find it a bit annoying to be told that the train was running as normal only to be chucked out at Queen Street (or even worse, find myself at the Bay).

Realistically whilst an inconvenience it isn't a long walk and most people would be fit enough to walk it. Would hope taxis are available for those who aren't able to though.

 

[AdamWW]

Realtimetrains is showing a service from Cardiff Central to Treherbert which has made it between Central and Queen Street and is now at Cathays.
It's showing on Traksy too.

Is this real?

In other news, one of the two trains running between the Bay and Coryton today appears to now be heading out of service towards Radyr.
Yet another 150 failure? The same thing happened yesterday.

Realistically whilst an inconvenience it isn't a long walk and most people would be fit enough to walk it. Would hope taxis are available for those who aren't able to though.

That's not the point!

Surely it's much better to tell people about disruption beforehand rather than tell them a train is running correctly only for them to find out once on the train that it isn't?

The disruption is presumably inevitable.

But I find it a bit hard to believe that there is just no way that any organisation in TfW's position could give out accurate information at this point.
This is not the early hours where people are scrambling to sort things out.

Am I unusual on this forum in thinking that the railway should at least aspire to give out correct information during disruption? I'm beginning to think so.

Oh - also - once they've done the not long walk, they'll then find a much reduced service to Penarth.

And...oh dear....signs on all the entrance doors to Queen Street saying that there are no trains running today....

 

[stu-79]

Looks like Treherbert trains are running (hourly only) via Queen St and the bridge, using the inbound track only (in and out of platform 8 at Central). Aberdare/Merthyr get their full half-hourly service today but reverse at Central and use the City line in both directions.

 

[AdamWW]

Looks like Treherbert trains are running (hourly only) via Queen St and the bridge, using the inbound track only (in and out of platform 8 at Central). Aberdare/Merthyr get their full half-hourly service today but reverse at Central and use the City line in both directions.

So overall could be a lot worse.

Though presumably Penarth still has a limited service.

 

[SWML9102]

Currently on a Paddington to Swansea train, that has just gone over to diesel at Newport. I assume overhead power is isolated due to proximity to the work on the bridge at Cardiff.

 

[AdamWW]

Currently on a Paddington to Swansea train, that has just gone over to diesel at Newport. I assume overhead power is isolated due to proximity to the work on the bridge at Cardiff.

Good thing they're bimodes!

Looks as if the service that is operated by a 387 was cancelled today.

 

[Peter Sarf]

That appears to be a buddleia. For reference to the damage the roots can do - I recently posted a thread with a photograph of the rootstock from a buddleia that was only about six feet in height:

Buddleia roots and the damage they cause.

We have mentioned on this forum many times before about the damage that buddleia roots can do, but so far we haven't actually illustrated it. This picture is of the root stock of a single buddleia bush just seven feet high which was removed from a raised flowerbed in my garden on Monday; the...

www.railforums.co.uk

Thanks for linking.

I know that by not keeping on top of weeds things end up worse. In the case of Buddlea the railways are persistently infecting adjoining properties not just their own.
It is a very irresponsible attitude that allows one to save money now BUT pay more later. Bordering on antisocial.

Realtimetrains is showing a service from Cardiff Central to Treherbert which has made it between Central and Queen Street and is now at Cathays.
It's showing on Traksy too.

Is this real?

In other news, one of the two trains running between the Bay and Coryton today appears to now be heading out of service towards Radyr.
Yet another 150 failure? The same thing happened yesterday.



That's not the point!

Surely it's much better to tell people about disruption beforehand rather than tell them a train is running correctly only for them to find out once on the train that it isn't?

The disruption is presumably inevitable.

But I find it a bit hard to believe that there is just no way that any organisation in TfW's position could give out accurate information at this point.
This is not the early hours where people are scrambling to sort things out.

Am I unusual on this forum in thinking that the railway should at least aspire to give out correct information during disruption? I'm beginning to think so.

Oh - also - once they've done the not long walk, they'll then find a much reduced service to Penarth.

And...oh dear....signs on all the entrance doors to Queen Street saying that there are no trains running today....

I am perplexed that the service information should still not be refined several days after the problem was identified.
Another symptom of a railway in trouble ?.

This another pic which gives an overview of the structure before propping https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y62kpxp96o

Looks like the steelworks is cantilevered off the viaduct to allow transition onto the main overbridge as they couldn't build the arches any closer to the adjacent line. See below a screen shot from a cab ride

View attachment 178807

It would appear that the section of the bridge compromised is the last bit on the right in the video as it tapers down so the tracks end up on the brick viaduct (that slopes down to Central). Note the arm sticking out over the nearest two Newport lines (fasts ?) that was shown in an earlier picture (not the OHLE).

In your main picture you can see they have started digging out ballast where the bases of the props will end up. Seems to me like the problem is that the tapered deck was no longer supported by the edge of that adjacent arch - with Buddlea in it !. The arch also has to support the Cardiff bound track at that point.

 

[Wyvernforged]

Still going today.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It would appear that the section of the bridge compromised is the last bit on the right in the video as it tapers down so the tracks end up on the brick viaduct (that slopes down to Central). Note the arm sticking out over the nearest two Newport lines (fasts ?) that was shown in an earlier picture (not the OHLE).

In your main picture you can see they have started digging out ballast where the bases of the props will end up. Seems to me like the problem is that the tapered deck was no longer supported by the edge of that adjacent arch - with Buddleia in it !. The arch also has to support the Cardiff bound track at that point.

Still going today.

That latest picture... it would make sense if the "several feet" of movement is actually several feet of deck rather than part of the bridge moving several feet no longer supported wouldn't it? i.e. the supports have sunk down a bit leaving the deck unsupported.

This would, then, appear to be a similar issue to the Nuneham viaduct a couple of years ago rather than part of the bridge having been knocked out of place?

 

[Peter Sarf]

That latest picture... it would make sense if the "several feet" of movement is actually several feet of deck rather than part of the bridge moving several feet no longer supported wouldn't it? i.e. the supports have sunk down a bit leaving the deck unsupported.

This would, then, appear to be a similar issue to the Nuneham viaduct a couple of years ago rather than part of the bridge having been knocked out of place?

That is my feeling. Corroborated by that last picture by @Wyvernforged .

I cannot help noticing how that last section seems to be leaning over. Or possibly the arch parapet is leaning the other way ?.
That last section now has the four props directly under it suggesting that the end of that section is no longer supported adequately by the face of the brick arch.

Also you can see the supporting arm and post that comes out across the two Southernmost Newport lines (that I referred to earlier).
QUESTION - right at the end of the section (so nearest the camera) is the the remnants of something cut off - was that a second beam across the Newport lines ?.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

That is my feeling. Corroborated by that last picture by @Wyvernforged .

I cannot help noticing how that last section seems to be leaning over. Or possibly the arch parapet is leaning the other way ?.
That last section now has the four props directly under it suggesting that the end of that section is no longer supported adequately by the face of the brick arch.

Also you can see the supporting arm and post that comes out across the two Southernmost Newport lines (that I referred to earlier).
QUESTION - right at the end of the section (so nearest the camera) is the the remnants of something cut off - was that a second beam across the Newport lines ?.

There has also been a fair bit of additional steelwork added to those girders maybe in connection with protection from the live electrification assets.

 

[AdamWW]

I am perplexed that the service information should still not be refined several days after the problem was identified.
Another symptom of a railway in trouble ?.

I am constantly perplexed (though resigned to) TfW's attitude to informing customers.

I'd hesitate to draw any wider conclusions as to the state of the railway in general, but from my point of view TfW are not getting it right when communicating with customers, whether it's regarding unexpected disruption, planned engineering work or much else for that matter. And they do not appear to have any interest in improving.

Their automated disruption emails still contain the line: "Consider others, we recommend you wear a face covering during your journey."

 

[Towers]

Can anyone in the know confirm whether NR do actually have any sort of regime for dealing with invasive vegetation where it threatens structures, or is it quite literally a case of leave it until stuff falls down?

 

[tigermonstera]

TfW have released a video about the issue: https://x.com/transport_wales/status/1915051789969477996

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

TfW have released a video about the issue: https://x.com/transport_wales/status/1915051789969477996

Doesn't say what the cause is but gives us a close up of the propping so one can surmise that the girder at the transition between the viaduct and the steel overbridge has lost some support or integrity.

 

[edwin_m]

That is my feeling. Corroborated by that last picture by @Wyvernforged .

I cannot help noticing how that last section seems to be leaning over. Or possibly the arch parapet is leaning the other way ?.
That last section now has the four props directly under it suggesting that the end of that section is no longer supported adequately by the face of the brick arch.

Also you can see the supporting arm and post that comes out across the two Southernmost Newport lines (that I referred to earlier).
QUESTION - right at the end of the section (so nearest the camera) is the the remnants of something cut off - was that a second beam across the Newport lines ?.

Indeed. Both the photo and the video (around 0:49 probably best) show that the plate girder is not fully resting on the masonry as one might expect. It is apparently at least partly supported by a protruding beam, which may at one time have gone across the track like the one further from the cameras (are there any cab videos from before electrification?). The end of this beam looks to be severely deteriorated. The props don't look strong enough to me to support a passing train on the nearer track, so may just be preventing the beam dropping.

This is the bridge that famously has minimum electrical clearances enabled by insulating paint and surge arrestors, so it's not surprising 80x are running on diesel either because of compromised clearances or for workforce safety.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I am constantly perplexed (though resigned to) TfW's attitude to informing customers.

I'd hesitate to draw any wider conclusions as to the state of the railway in general, but from my point of view TfW are not getting it right when communicating with customers, whether it's regarding unexpected disruption, planned engineering work or much else for that matter. And they do not appear to have any interest in improving.

Their automated disruption emails still contain the line: "Consider others, we recommend you wear a face covering during your journey."

Gulp. That really dated message tells me how often they are reviewing information provision - almost never.

Doesn't say what the cause is but gives us a close up of the propping so one can surmise that the girder at the transition between the viaduct and the steel overbridge has lost some support or integrity.
View attachment 178842

It really does look like the end of that beam should be resting on the top of the load spreading stone set in the brick viaduct. Instead it is sticking out but there maybe more structure to the beam behind it going into the viaduct and onto that stone.

 

[starlight73]

(are there any cab videos from before electrification?).

There’s this one from 2017: (starts at 57 seconds)

and this one taken from the side of a rail tour (starts at 1:17)

they are a bit small but hopefully it gives some idea

 

[Peter Sarf]

Those videos are tantalising. A bit unclear but also from an angle further away so hard to be sure. But it really looks to me like the end of that beam has moved off the top of the stone block on the top of the brick viaduct and also looks to be leaning over.

 

[edwin_m]

There’s this one from 2017: (starts at 57 seconds)

and this one taken from the side of a rail tour (starts at 1:17)

they are a bit small but hopefully it gives some idea

Neither video shows a girder spanning the track at the position of the apparent failure (the start of the metal plate girder). The second one pre-dates the re-signalling so is older, about 13 years old going by the posting date but a quick search of Six Bells Junction doesn't bring up the actual date. So there has been no second girder for at least that long and possibly ever.

 

[Wyvernforged]

I took this one on the 24th of October 2024 as I was passing through. I have no idea why. But I guess it could be used for a comparison.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Still going today.

+

I took this one on the 24th of October 2024 as I was passing through. I have no idea why. But I guess it could be used for a comparison.

Looks to be no change in position of the end of the big beam.
But then maybe its been moved since before 24/10/2024 - very unlikely.

 

[edwin_m]

Hard to tell with the lighting as it is in that photo, but it may be that some of the end of the girder (the bit potentially anchoring it into the masonry) has disappeared from the photo in #111 to the post-incident photos.

 

[AdamWW]

Well we have an improvement today - on Journeycheck the trains from Coryton to the Bay are actually shown as going to the Bay rather than just Queen Street (and vice versa), and there's even a line update explaining this.

And even an hourly train between Caerphilly and Penarth, and a line update mentioning this.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I took this one on the 24th of October 2024 as I was passing through. I have no idea why. But I guess it could be used for a comparison.

The girder and its addition steel parapet looks very ‘not vertical’ even back then. Is this something that has been defective for an extended period perhaps?

 

[Benjwri]

The girder and its addition steel parapet looks very ‘not vertical’ even back then. Is this something that has been defective for an extended period perhaps?

I’d say it’s unlikely. There is a cab ride from just after electrification where it looks to be at a very similar angle, and that’s right when it was installed. It is hard to tell though, as the fence, which is the only solid reference, was installed fairly recently.

 

[GilfachFargoed]

It is a pity that the generic information from the link on TfW's front page gives the impression that Caerphilly is still only buses...

 

[AdamWW]

It is a pity that the generic information from the link on TfW's front page gives the impression that Caerphilly is still only buses...

View attachment 178891

Yes. Not at all clear.

It would be lovely if they could just have a simple summary of the situation which they updated as things changed.

Instead they include the warning: "Passengers are advised to check Journeycheck.com/twfrail or Transport for Wales social media for the latest travel updates".

But I just looked to check that wording, and in fact found they have now changed the yellow banner to include:

We are diverting Merthyr/Aberdare services via the City line. An hourly Treherbert service is running via Llandaf/Cathays. An hourly service connects Caerphilly and Penarth via Queen St. And there is a half hourly Coryton-Cardiff Bay service. This is allowing us to use the limited capacity over the bridge whilst remedial work continues 24/7.

There is also ticket acceptance on Cardiff Bus and Stagecoach. Passengers are advised to check Journeycheck.com/tfwrail or Transport for Wales social media for the latest travel updates.

Which is a pretty good and useful summary and I suppose it would be churlish of me to suggest they could have provided such clarity a bit earlier.

Meanwhile - I'm curious as to what is letting them gradually increase services in the way they are. It doesn't seem to be a case of lines completely out of use or available for full service.

And I'm even more curious as to why they picked Coryton to be the first destination to get a service.

 

[bradleyd]

I've just got on a treherbert line train at central and was quite surprised when it headed out queen street way

 

[AdamWW]

I've just got on a treherbert line train at central and was quite surprised when it headed out queen street way

If TfW communicated better you might not have been so surprised.