Indeed. If they decide not to vaccinate teenagers, that's a decision up to them. But I won't be following any measures in order to "keep the schools open".
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Heading into autumn - what next?
- Thread starter MikeWM
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Indeed. If they decide not to vaccinate teenagers, that's a decision up to them. But I won't be following any measures in order to "keep the schools open".
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Last time they shut the schools for the vast majority as well so what was the point.
Eyersey468
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I will only be doing the absolute bare minimum, they have long since squandered any goodwill I had through their lies and hypocrisy.
Absolutely.
bramling
Veteran Member
The other thing is that I think for many people the “save the NHS” message is now starting to wear thin.
People have put elements of their life on hold for 18 months and largely done what they were asked to do in terms of wearing masks and taking the vaccine, but by the same token are now getting fed up with stuff like not being able to see their GP, finding they have to wait months for dental treatment, or can’t even get through to their surgery.
My local Facebook, once a stronghold for pro-restriction types (it still is to some extent with the types who continue to insist returning to their office is too dangerous), is also now starting to fill with increasing dissatisfaction as people tell of bad experiences with the NHS. A work colleague is having an atrocious time with an elderly relative, and I can recall a similar story earlier in the year.
They might just be able to spin another lockdown on the basis of “terrifying new variant evading the vaccine - lock yourself up indoors because YOU are at risk”, but short of that I don’t think a critical mass of people will wear it. Certainly not on a “save the NHS” message.
Problem is, we won't have a choice on many of them.
If they close pubs, restaurant's, cafes, non-essential shops, non essential overseas travel, mandate masks and social distancing again etc, what choice do we have? Break into the pub and try and pull a pint yourself?
I appreciate it's easier to ignore things like non-essential and "group size" restrictions in private homes, but it's certainly not possible to choose "not to follow" many of the measures.
Indeed, and @bramling has made that very point very eloquently.
The only thing we can do is to attempt to make the restrictions so pointless, the loss of economic activity from the closures becomes untenable.
We can refuse to wear masks for a start and ignore anti-social distancing.
bramling
Veteran Member
What would happen I suspect is we’d quickly see scenes of packed trains, beaches, beauty spots and garden centres (no doubt accompanied the odd “We went to the beach and were *disgusted* to find it was busy” quote!). Then business owners will start to seriously rock the boat as to why it’s acceptable for hundreds of people to cram in to a Sprinter to Skegness but they can’t enter a shop to buy a bunch of flowers for a funeral, for example. Unfortunately it may then be a case of who shouts the loudest - struggling business owners or “terrified” office workers who want to be back to working at home, with everyone else stuck in the middle.
But short of a vaccine scare, I don’t think there will be mass buy-in. It was already much flakier in January than it was last March.
Also watch out for some of the wider effects starting to be felt. Inflation is already an issue, some tax allowances are already frozen (a fact some people don’t seem to understand constitutes a tax increase), and there’s now murmurings of a national insurance rise. The next few months are bound to see a massive pile of bad news buried under the Covid banner, this is bound to affect opinions too.
Further lockdowns are untenable; the people who claim otherwise are effectively advocating super inflation and widening the gap between poorer people and wealthier people which is unacceptable.
The virus cannot be eliminated and the endgame is clearly reaching an endemic equilibrium
Whether or not 12-15 year olds should be vaccinated is an interesting question to which we may not know the answers yet. But enough other countries are doing this that we should get useful data in the coming weeks and months. There are too many unknowns at the moment.
The virus cannot be eliminated and the endgame is clearly reaching an endemic equilibrium
Whether or not 12-15 year olds should be vaccinated is an interesting question to which we may not know the answers yet. But enough other countries are doing this that we should get useful data in the coming weeks and months. There are too many unknowns at the moment.
bramling
Veteran Member
I’ll make one prediction only - whilst I think another lockdown is less likely than from where we were this time last year, I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that is gets seriously floated as a response if the death figures do start to climb. Lest we remember the “headline” figure is already not that far short of what Boris has rather foolishly gone on record (I forget if this was a leak or not) as saying is acceptable.
Cases are bound to increase, and odds are there probably will be some kind of scare over a variant. We can rest assured there *will* be people screaming for lockdown measures. I’m not sure it will be avoided without a bit of a showdown. We can guarantee that won’t happen in the place it’s meant to happen - MPs having the debate in our behalf in the chamber.
In the meantime there’s vaccine passports as a new way for the government to demonstrate a “Coronavirus response”. Perhaps predictably Sturgeon has already latched on to this one. I guess it keeps the politicians busy for a bit - even if it’s as effective as “don’t enter this building if you’ve been to China” which was of course the very initial chocolate fireguard.
I have had cause to work near a couple of testing sites during the pandemic. The staffing levels befuddle me. One has two testers, two testers helpers and an admin bod and 5securiry guards to direct people and traffic.
I ended up borrowing the barriers from the testing center and the guards spend a jolly couple of hours chatting to me and smoking around the corner. They made me a brew and let me use their loo. In the couple of hours I was there I didn't see a person going in. Certainly no need for one security guard let alone five.
Staff at the test centre in Lytham spent 3 hours at least sat around a table having a bit of a party and sunbathing.
The same goes for the vac centre the have about 4 people stood outside to tell people where the door is but for 40 in years finding the way in hasn't been an issue. (I think they're volunteers though)
A couple of my colleagues go twice weekly for an asymptomatic test. I don't see the point.
A couple of shops around here have no mask no entry policies. I just don't go in any more.
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Probably hoping for a positive result so they can take more time of work.
Freightmaster
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That's very cynical...
...but probably true! (after all, you don't hear of many (if any) self employed people
who say that they are going out "twice weekly for an asymptomatic test" do you??
)MARK
A couple sat opposite me had a very interesting conversation last Friday; the woman (masked) was unhappy that most people were unmasked; her partner (unmasked) was fine with it. In addition to discussing ungated stations and fare evasion matters, the woman indicated that she would not mind testing positive as it would get her off work and even went as far as to say that she wouldn't need to test positive as they would have to accept her word for it.
Meanwhile, I think I am in the majority of people who don't hate their jobs and therefore would not be wanting to get time off work due to a positive test. At least I hope so! But, for sure, there is a sizeable minority of people who would like to get a positive result so they can get off work. I am glad I am not in that situation to be so cynical, nor will I ever be.
Meanwhile, I think I am in the majority of people who don't hate their jobs and therefore would not be wanting to get time off work due to a positive test. At least I hope so! But, for sure, there is a sizeable minority of people who would like to get a positive result so they can get off work. I am glad I am not in that situation to be so cynical, nor will I ever be.
Green tractor
Member
There are plenty of people who would use any excuse to have time off work, especially if they get sick pay. Just look at the sickness rates in the civil service.
Yes there are plenty of such people, but I do not think it applies to most people. Most people I know do enjoy their work.
I do know some people who don't particularly enjoy their work (not at my workplace I hasten to add), but they do seem to at least have some pride in the work they do.
I think it's a minority but a sizeable one; but whatever the numbers are it doesn't really matter, the fact is some people will be enjoying the possibility of having a positive test result even though it seems an alien concept to most of us.
I do know some people who don't particularly enjoy their work (not at my workplace I hasten to add), but they do seem to at least have some pride in the work they do.
I think it's a minority but a sizeable one; but whatever the numbers are it doesn't really matter, the fact is some people will be enjoying the possibility of having a positive test result even though it seems an alien concept to most of us.
philosopher
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If you test positive, you legally have to stay at home for ten days. This is quite a big ask and I would have thought that would be quite a big deterrent to those wanting to test positive for ulterior motives. Though of course some may not self isolate, particularly if they asymptomatic.
bramling
Veteran Member
People ages ago clocked onto the fact there’s no enforcement. Meanwhile of course there’s track and trace, which was offering another period of free leave from work.
DelayRepay
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And still is at my company. HR have told us we are allowed to explain the excemption for fully vaccinated people, but cannot ask staff if they are vaccinated. We cannot even ask staff who took advantage of the offer of paid time off to attend vaccine appointments...
Fortunately my colleagues aren't taking the mick. The challenge I have, now we all have laptops, is trying to stop people who are actually sick from working because I think people who are sick should rest in order to get better.
johnnychips
Established Member
A colleague got ‘pinged’ and rung in work to say she was self-isolating (even though this was not mandatory). Another colleague saw her out shopping and reported her. I believe a ‘tea with no biscuits’ meeting followed.
Yet if you dare to go abroad you have to pay for the tests yourself. Not to mention stand in a five hour queue at Heathrow whilst flustered border staff deal with all the pointless paperwork. People have been collapsing in the heat apparently. Another success story. And for what? To keep out a disease that is already here?
Butts
Veteran Member
Not if you go to Ireland no tests required in or out - land and out of the Airport in minutes.
Customs but not immigration thank the Lord
Exactly if I tested positive and was asymptomatic I'm not sure I'd be staying in 24/7. Not saying Id by jumping on the train or shopping. But I'd certainly be wearing out my walking boots and tyres.
If someone does knock on the door there is no requirement to answer it. Thus a negative knock on or landline call proves nothing.
I haven't taken a test since this started. I'm not likely to unless I feel unwell. I don't see the point in taking several days off work when I feel fine.
Pete_uk
Established Member
I think the winter will be a disastrous. An elderly relative of mine fell and broke his femur. It was a wait of four hours for an ambulance then once at hospital a four hour wait in the ambulance to be seen.
Eyersey468
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I've had one since it started and to be honest that was only to shut my OH up. If and only if I get symptoms then I will test but I can't see the point when I feel fine.
Ok, let's have an update for the first five days of Autumn.
- 'Vaccine passports' announced for England and Scotland.
- Coronavirus act to be extended for another 6 months.
- Scientists on the JCVI say 'no' to vaccinations for 12-15 year olds; government decides 'following the science' is no longer the excuse that want to use for doing whatever they want to do, and so is going to go ahead anyway.
- Strong indications that mandatory vaccinations for all NHS workers is going to be pushed through very soon, despite the fact that the entire care home system is currently on the brink of collapse from that same policy. I'm sure this will help the capacity problems in the NHS immensely.
Oh, and Israel is telling its citizens to prepare for dose 4 (!) of the vaccine, telling them 'this is our life from now on'.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/virus-czar-calls-to-begin-readying-for-eventual-4th-vaccine-dose/
It doesn't seem much like this is 'over', does it?
- 'Vaccine passports' announced for England and Scotland.
- Coronavirus act to be extended for another 6 months.
- Scientists on the JCVI say 'no' to vaccinations for 12-15 year olds; government decides 'following the science' is no longer the excuse that want to use for doing whatever they want to do, and so is going to go ahead anyway.
- Strong indications that mandatory vaccinations for all NHS workers is going to be pushed through very soon, despite the fact that the entire care home system is currently on the brink of collapse from that same policy. I'm sure this will help the capacity problems in the NHS immensely.
Oh, and Israel is telling its citizens to prepare for dose 4 (!) of the vaccine, telling them 'this is our life from now on'.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/virus-czar-calls-to-begin-readying-for-eventual-4th-vaccine-dose/
It doesn't seem much like this is 'over', does it?
NorthKent1989
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Notice how none of those measures were passed through Parliament? I spoke with a friend yesterday who said that losing our freedoms is worth it to control the virus for a short time,
I ended the message saying “three weeks to flatten the curve…”
I do wonder where we’ll be in six months if passports will be dropped, Ireland and Denmark are dropping all covid measures and rightly so.
While it is disgraceful that Parliament has been sidelined for so long on such important issues, part if the problem is that Parliament would/will pass most/all of them anyway.
'Vaccine passports' will pass in Scotland (SNP near-majority) and England (whatever Labour do; the SNP will either vote for or abstain given Sturgeon's new position on the subject, and there aren't anywhere near enough Tory rebels to overcome that).
The CV Act will be extended; Labour will either vote for it or abstain.
NHS worker mandatory vaccinations will pass too; Labour will probably oppose but the SNP will probably abstain and the result will be similar to the care homes vote (closer than I expected but still a comfortable majority for the government).
But Israel did too, and look how long that lasted.
Once they are introduced, they may go away for a while or have their scope reduced for a while, but I strongly suspect we'd never really be rid of them.
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