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Stations rebranded to Great British Railways design / Rail Alphabet 2

D6130

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Not sure whether this has been mentioned already - and I don't have time to scroll back through 359 posts - but I noticed on The Cumbrian Coaster railtour on Saturday 28th August that Harrington has the new signage....and possible other stations on that line too.
 
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RailUK Forums

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Not sure whether this has been mentioned already - and I don't have time to scroll back through 359 posts - but I noticed on The Cumbrian Coaster railtour on Saturday 28th August that Harrington has the new signage....and possible other stations on that line too.
Milloms yet to be done, certainly as of Friday anyway.
 

Crosslinker

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I don't think it's supposed to represent either. It's just a railway-ish pictogram that is in the style of the letter "M" for Manchester. See the images below.

I thought these were commissioned by Railtrack, but they must have been later as Reading and Liverpool Lime Street weren't classed as Major Stations when privatisation happened.

And incidentally, these are a classic demonstration of why silly branding of railway stations with coloured logos and the like is to be discouraged. Half of these logos don't mean anything or make any sense whatsoever. We, for example, probably know that the Euston sign represents the Doric Arch. I'd be very surprised if anybody who isn't a member of this forum knows that though!. Likewise, what's the Reading symbol supposed to be? Or Birmingham New Street? What do the different colours represent? Why does Cannon Sreet not have the letter 'C' in it, or Victoria the letter 'V' (unless you take the lapel of the dress to be a 'V')? Why is the 'L' in Leeds obscured by the Yorkshire Rose, and why are all the 'L's in the symbols for Leeds, Liverpool, Liverpool Street, and London Bridge all different sizes, etc.?
View attachment 102103
Yes, there is a C in Cannon Street, and Queen Victoria's lapel is the V. Reading has used the shape of the new station (escalators). Fenchurch Street and Gatwick Airport weren't Major Stations at the time when Railtrack originally launched these. You'll find that in recent times, the 'Victoria' station brand is being used for employees working at the station rather than the employer TOC or NR, under a 'one team' approach.

Most were Railtrack, but at various points Network Rail have had some made as stations transferred into their hands.


I'm not sure about the other two, but St Pancras has never been a Railtrack/Network Rail station, upon privatisation the station was transferred to Midland Mainline and then was handed over to HS1 Ltd prior to becoming the terminus.
St Pancras (high level) is managed by NR (High Speed) on behalf of HS1. The branding is as dictated by HS1. St Pancras (low level) is NR, but not branded as part of this scheme.
 

XAM2175

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I wonder - How many times have any of you wondered what platform you are on and deduced it by looking at all the signs telling you were all the other platforms are and been left with more than one potential platform. Example platform 13 at Paddington - am I on it or does it not exist ?.
I was doing a fair amount of travel in England last week and kept noticing this - so many platforms that are for all intents and purposes totally un-numbered apart from a sign or two at the main entrance.
 

Bletchleyite

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I was doing a fair amount of travel in England last week and kept noticing this - so many platforms that are for all intents and purposes totally un-numbered apart from a sign or two at the main entrance.

Merseyrail traditionally didn't bother at smaller stations, with signage showing the direction of travel instead.
 

Shaun_92

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Shireoaks has new signs. Photo taken today (11/09/21) Worksop, Gainsborough Central, Kirton Lindsey & Brigg, all have the new signs.
 

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Hb06_

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Garsdale also has the new signage. In person, it looks a lot nicer than it does in photos.
 

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Hb06_

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Does anyone have an idea of when other elements of signage will be introduced/what they will look like? E.g "Waiting room" or "Way out" for smaller stations?
 

Chiltern006

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the yellow on black signs at kings Cross toilets are personally my favourite, could this have been a potentially better design
 
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Garsdale also has the new signage. In person, it looks a lot nicer than it does in photos.
They've changed the signs at Padgate, ane I've got to admit, I agree with you - they don't look too bad when viewing them in person, although can look less flattering on images.
 

shyanthony

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the yellow on black signs at kings Cross toilets are personally my favourite, could this have been a potentially better design
I couldn't agree more.
There's something about a sign on a black background that I just find minimalist yet visually appealing (like the old London Midland signage)
 

physics34

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I like it - sometimes less is more.

Looking forward to achieving brand consistency across the entire network again, although I would like to see separate brands for different types of services as seen during the sectorisation era again.
Correct, the railways are a public service not an art gallery.
 

Neptune

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Correct, the railways are a public service not an art gallery.
I’ve watched this thread with interest and some of the comments have really made me laugh at how some people believe that Joe and Jane Public actually care what colour/style a station sign is.

If there’d been even a line of colour as some people are suggesting then they’d no doubt want more (fancy logos or some such).

I have always believed less is more. I can’t believe that some people have suggested that these simple signs that do the job they are intended to do will lead to passengers leaving the railway in droves because they don’t like them (chose any reason given but that’s the crux of what has been said). Your average passenger doesn’t care if the sign is black writing on a white background and probably haven’t even noticed.

Surely clean, tidy and safe stations is a passengers biggest requirement. Not a fancy coloured sign.

Any colour on a station should be restricted to lamp posts, doors, window frames, seats, shelters etc… which give more to the aesthetics than the bloody station nameboard. The sign is doing a job and it does it well in the new guise.
 

LowLevel

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I’ve watched this thread with interest and some of the comments have really made me laugh at how some people believe that Joe and Jane Public actually care what colour/style a station sign is.

If there’d been even a line of colour as some people are suggesting then they’d no doubt want more (fancy logos or some such).

I have always believed less is more. I can’t believe that some people have suggested that these simple signs that do the job they are intended to do will lead to passengers leaving the railway in droves because they don’t like them (chose any reason given but that’s the crux of what has been said). Your average passenger doesn’t care if the sign is black writing on a white background and probably haven’t even noticed.

Surely clean, tidy and safe stations is a passengers biggest requirement. Not a fancy coloured sign.

Any colour on a station should be restricted to lamp posts, doors, window frames, seats, shelters etc… which give more to the aesthetics than the bloody station nameboard. The sign is doing a job and it does it well in the new guise.

I can't help but disagree. If you have a read of Gordon Pettitt's Regional Railways Story he goes into some length about how the BR brand, plain black on white, banger blue and grey etc had become poisonous. RR in particular smartened things up with a very smart, simple styling - the blue line with the dashes taken out of the end. It showed some consistency and common styling without being expensive or pretentious and it survived looking more or less smart for over 20 years in large numbers, whilst still being inclusive within BR by featuring the arrows in the logo.

It showed an element of caring and taking ownership, personally I think it was a masterpiece of simple corporate design.
 

nlogax

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If you have a read of Gordon Pettitt's Regional Railways Story he goes into some length about how the BR brand, plain black on white, banger blue and grey etc had become poisonous.

No doubt at all that was true at the time but we're no longer in that situation. In a broad context passengers no longer associate station signage or the colour of their trains with delays, cancellations or the other miseries that BR used to inflict upon them. BR's failures became a national and cultural talking point. Privatisation has mostly eradicated that.

My own view is similar to that of @Neptune, specifically this one point.
Surely clean, tidy and safe stations is a passengers biggest requirement. Not a fancy coloured sign.

I'm willing to bet that most passengers aren't detail oriented. They don't care that much about the typeface or the colour of the sign or which particular standard of pictogram is used on which platform or at which ticket barrier they're placed.
 

Neptune

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I can't help but disagree. If you have a read of Gordon Pettitt's Regional Railways Story he goes into some length about how the BR brand, plain black on white, banger blue and grey etc had become poisonous. RR in particular smartened things up with a very smart, simple styling - the blue line with the dashes taken out of the end. It showed some consistency and common styling without being expensive or pretentious and it survived looking more or less smart for over 20 years in large numbers, whilst still being inclusive within BR by featuring the arrows in the logo.

It showed an element of caring and taking ownership, personally I think it was a masterpiece of simple corporate design.
I worked for RRNE so I have quite a lot of insight into them.

I agree with a lot of what was said but I’m sorry, the colour of a station sign is neither here nor there. Other elements such as appearance (did you even notice what I said about that?) are important.

Do what you like with posters etc.. but a lack of colour on a station nameboard is not going to cause a meltdown (except on here it seems).
 

Christmas

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I'd like to see all ScotRail and Caledonian Sleeper trains carrying the BR double arrow at the very least. This is about network consistency for the benefit of passengers, so hopefully political agendas can be set aside.
 

LowLevel

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I worked for RRNE so I have quite a lot of insight into them.

I agree with a lot of what was said but I’m sorry, the colour of a station sign is neither here nor there. Other elements such as appearance (did you even notice what I said about that?) are important.

Do what you like with posters etc.. but a lack of colour on a station nameboard is not going to cause a meltdown (except on here it seems).
I agree they need to be presentable - much of the issue with the BR era signage was probably that they remained in use for years after having been shot at, having things thrown at them or generally vandalised, or having faded badly, without repair or replacement.

Maybe it's just that at the moment the new signage is pretty stark compared to it's more colourful surroundings - it almost looks like it should have one of those daft "temporary sign" messages on it.

I do suspect that much of the reason we have branding strips on the bottom of signs is simply to replace the previous incumbent's brand without going to the expense of new signage - see GW until recently, Wales etc.
 

Tomos y Tanc

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I'm just judging from the photos and take people's word for it that the look better in real life but to my eyes they look cheap and temporary, the kind of thing you'd put up while waiting for proper signage to arrive. Not that it's a huge issue for me.
 

Neptune

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I agree they need to be presentable - much of the issue with the BR era signage was probably that they remained in use for years after having been shot at, having things thrown at them or generally vandalised, or having faded badly, without repair or replacement.
That’s down to maintenance though rather than the sign itself.

Maybe it's just that at the moment the new signage is pretty stark compared to it's more colourful surroundings - it almost looks like it should have one of those daft "temporary sign" messages on it.
The arguments for years have been about replacing the colourful signs of one company with the colourful signs of another and the usual ‘waste of money’ remarks. Now it is being standardised into something simple with no need to alter it in years to come because a swoosh has gone out of fashion and needs to be replaced with a triangle or something daft like that.

I do suspect that much of the reason we have branding strips on the bottom of signs is simply to replace the previous incumbent's brand without going to the expense of new signage - see GW until recently, Wales etc.
Exactly. But then others would argue that it is cheap (probably while complaining about the other companies doing a complete change).

This is hopefully going to be a one hit simple rebrand (nothing fancy, just something that does the job it is intended to do) that can then be put to bed for years to come and divert us onto more important things such as safety, accessibility, cleanliness, reliability etc…

I'm just judging from the photos and take people's word for it that the look better in real life but to my eyes they look cheap and temporary, the kind of thing you'd put up while waiting for proper signage to arrive. Not that it's a huge issue for me.
The main issue for me is that you can see the sign underneath it on some of the examples.
 

alexl92

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It certainly looks somewhat, cheap? Particularly at stations along the S&C - a shame a more heritage style sign couldn't be used in keeping with the colours of the stations.
On lines like the S&C which have a particular character and identity, it's a shame they couldn't use a more traditional design (such as how some councils paint lamp posts black in more historic areas of towns) but also maybe have name of the line or region on the sign too?

EG:
RIBBLEHEAD
Settle - Carlisle Line​
 

physics34

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I'm just judging from the photos and take people's word for it that the look better in real life but to my eyes they look cheap and temporary, the kind of thing you'd put up while waiting for proper signage to arrive. Not that it's a huge issue for me.
I think there is a good chance they may add something to them when the GBR thing gets formally started
 

dorsetdesiro

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I think there is a good chance they may add something to them when the GBR thing gets formally started

Good point, the new platform signs are probably more like a blank template as GBR hasn't yet started nor has its branding developed yet. Once GBR debuts, some brand elements could then be placed on the signs like say two coloured lines - red & blue - at the top or bottom
 

physics34

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Good point, the new platform signs are probably more like a blank template as GBR hasn't yet started nor has its branding developed yet. Once GBR debuts, some brand elements could then be placed on the signs like say two coloured lines - red & blue - at the top or bottom
Yep that would work
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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The branding documents by Network Rail seem to show that they are each supposed to carry a red double arrow to the left of the text.
I am not surprised it’s red. I couldn’t get my head around why everyone assumed new GBR branding would be blue - almost all stations in the UK have a red arrow so it would be rather strange to then choose blue. I think a lot of people read too much into the colour on which the document about GBR was printed :lol:
 

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